195 replies to this topic

[Kangarad]

Ratpoison, on 24 December 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

lol no

"lol wut?"
You have seen SC's world forge? Or did they not publicate the full footage yet?

Anyway Crytek got bought of theyr top/key developers to work in the Frankfurt, Germany Office for SC. Highly modifying and Rewriting the entire engine over the year(s). That was 2015 when Crytek hit the major low and could not pay its people partially.

[Wintersdark]

Kangarad, on 24 December 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

TBH. not sure if this "engine Change" is something massive. Or if this realy is the death of the "cry engine".

Afterall SC allready had a majority of the CE developers hired and a deal with AWS for servers. the only thing that changes is the name wich I'd wager is for publicity reasons.

Anyone here thinking that SC's own engine that they developed is the AMAZON one for copyright reasons?

No. The Amazon engine is CryEngine "remastered", as Amazon bought CryEngine. SC was based on Cryengine 3, so it's not a huge step like going to Unreal or Unity would be because the underlying tech is the same.

This is probably a good move for SC in the long run, as Lumberyard IS Cryengine but will continue to see development.

CryEngine is ALREADY dead, before this move, because it was killed off when it was sold to Amazon.

[xEdSteelex]

Ratpoison, on 24 December 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Considering MW5 is already in Unreal, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a switch to Unreal for MWO in the future as well.

Yes, but it would be easier just to release an MWO 2 after MW5 is released and maybe set MW2 in the post Dark Age era to avoid all the balance issues that MWO has.

[Van Hoven]

xEdSteelex, on 24 December 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Yes, but it would be easier just to release an MWO 2 after MW5 is released and maybe set MW2 in the post Dark Age era to avoid all the balance issues that MWO has.

And have a reason to not transfer over any purchased mechs

[Revis Volek]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 December 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

so Star Citizen, the game that has been coming out since forever,
(i say forever because its release keeps getting pushed back every 6 months by 6 months)

says they are no longer going to be using Cry Engine?
how does this in any way show that Cry Engine is Dieing?

Star Citizen is an interesting game dont get me wrong, but its alot like (No Mans sky),
theirs a lot of hype but its actually not as big or game breaking at all, its pretty but not much else,
(i Play Space Engineers and theirs nothing that i could do in SC than i cant do in SE)

im abit confused about the whole SC nostalgia, id like to understand it,
Edit-

CryTek Studios is also consolidating their production offices, as in getting rid of lots of them and having only like two i think?

They are downsizing, it doesnt bode well IMO.

http://www.polygon.c...tudios-shutdown


But maybe they can turn it around, they have the right idea i guess.

Edited by Revis Volek, 24 December 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Damn. Seven pages in. This thread really points out the SC Kool-aid drinkers and the MWO White Knights.

I just know after I feel like I got burned as a Founder of this game and burned by another game with it's Day 1 DLC I decided to become that guy that doesn't spend money on games anymore except when they go on sale.

Conveniently enough, it's made me a much happier gamer as I'm not as susceptible to investment bias or feeling "burned" in the way I feel burned with MWO.

[Ratpoison]

xEdSteelex, on 24 December 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Yes, but it would be easier just to release an MWO 2 after MW5 is released and maybe set MW2 in the post Dark Age era to avoid all the balance issues that MWO has.

No it absolutely wouldn't, the easiest and most profitable course of action for PGI is to upgrade MWO to Unreal using the work they're already putting into it, and work on bringing out the game's full potential once the limitations of the old cryengine version are no more. Starting from scratch and trying to fund a full new game requires a new set of paying customers, and the ones who get burned by losing all their progress sure aren't going to do it. An updated MWO will entice all the old customers into paying again, but a sequel to MWO will just run them all off. There's absolutely no purpose for a sequel.

And Jihad era can forever burn for all I care. That is not how you properly balance a game.

[Green Mamba]

rollermint, on 24 December 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

I'm not even an SC backer and I can see that the game has shown a lot of progress. Moreso than any other games. The new stuff the've shown the past year and this year are pretty damn impressive. I almost feel like throwing money at them but I just want to wait a bit more..plus I've a boatload of games to play.

It has an extremely open development policy that even non-backers like me can have a pretty damn good picture at what they are doing if I put a bit of effort looking for it. Most of the salts here are purely based on misconceptions and outright ignorance. No game in existence has a more open development than SC, believe me.'

Some of the comments here literally read like many have a personal beef with SC somewhat yet they are no way involve with the game whatsoever so it seems really bizarre. Especially when it comes from players of a game that some have spent thousands buying mechpacks and paintjobs/decals and are also bitter that this game have a pretty poor development record, unfinished/half baked features + not that great reputation online too.

A lot of people have felt in the past on these forums that it will compete against MWO and now of course the MW 5 SP game thats why some are so aggressive towards even mentioning it on here.

[Ratpoison]

Green Mamba, on 24 December 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

A lot of people have felt in the past on these forums that it will compete against MWO and now of course the MW 5 SP game thats why some are so aggressive towards even mentioning it on here.

A few childish people think that way, don't give them more credit than needed.

[Bishop Steiner]

Green Mamba, on 24 December 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

A lot of people have felt in the past on these forums that it will compete against MWO and now of course the MW 5 SP game thats why some are so aggressive towards even mentioning it on here.

Not really what I have seen in my 4.5 years here.

What I had seen, especially in the "bad year" of 2013, was certain noted Reddiots, rubbing their SC superiority in everyone's face, about how great and amazing the Messiah Chris Roberts would be, and how everything he touches turns to rainbows and unicorn farts. And constnatly comparing the greatness of SC, to the Fail of MWO.

Then as the years drug by...and people sat there, looking at their hundred to thousands dollar trailer queen space ships in their hanger, while still not even having a playable, ANYTHING.... with one delay after the next... turn their fanboi whiteknight denial into rage against everything else.....

Most of the "hate" to Star Citizen, has nothing to do with the game itself, or the publisher.... and everything to do with the arrogant bullcrap of a certain portion of their community.

It's mostly why people hate the Yankees and Cowboys.... teams that figure the answer to everything is to throw money at it... and fans who ram their overhyped teams down everyone elses throat.... tends to breed resentment.

Perhaps if a certain portion of SC Douchenozzles weren't also the very same people who have been so rabidly anti PGI/MWO for so long? There'd be more charity toward the game and it's community.

But if people are going to act like a bunch of *******, they shoudl be expected to be treated thusly, in return.

I honestly couldn't give two shakes of my leaky nozzle about Star Citizen either way. Didn't interest me when it was announced, doesn't now. But I do get a chuckle off all the delays and issues, which in so many way mirror the same ones PGI often has had (I don't know if they'll have the same balance issues... can one even fight each other yet to find out? Haven't paid attention in..well.. a while).... but with more than 20x the money to throw at the technical issues. So, yeah,, the irony is pretty amusing.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 December 2016 - 05:59 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Alan Davion, on 24 December 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

I was hoping someone would be stupid enough to bring up the budget issue. You stepped in it this time.

Go look up the budget that was slated for Bungie's "Destiny" game a couple years ago.

FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. Probably the most expensive "Triple A" title in recent memory. And you can put real money down on the fact that more than half of that was spent, PURELY, on advertising.

So you're looking at an actual, game development budget of maybe two hundred million at the most. Two-Fifths of the total budget slated for that game.

What's Star Citizen up to now? According to their funding page they're something shy of 140 million.

And guess what sunshine, literally EVERY, SINGLE, FLIPPING PENNY has gone into the game. Including their advertising budget, which CIG does, oh, you know, all on their own.

They don't contract some outside agency to advertise their game.

They do it all on their own, and by word of mouth of their fans.

I honestly think at this point you're just being a troll.

All SC has been stating is the amount of kickstarter/crowd funding or what ever it is called, that they have received, they are not saying if they went to the banks with that crowd funding money and borrowed more. I think they did go to the banks and their budget is between 500 million to 1 billion.

Also I hope everyone reads the entire topic and it becomes a lot more clear.

SC has no reason to do anything but blow time and release as little content as possible. They are making huge pay cheques and living well on that crowd funding.

SC is getting paid for not having a game, clear enough? These are the facts. Facts. Except the banking part, that's a guess.

I seen insurance company do the same thing, collect money up front and then keep it for themselves and their friends and tell the ones who founded that company, from nothing and paid for it, to protect workers, to go die. That company was made not to long ago specifically because it could get dangerous for workers. Yes extreme but these things do happen. This is also a fact.

Now these facts do not mean SC will not live up to their side of the agreement. I guess it all depends on time doesn't it. How much is to much and all that.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 December 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[RestosIII]

Johnny Z, on 24 December 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

1 billion.

Yeah, suuuuuure it is.

[Wintersdark]

Ratpoison, on 24 December 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

No it absolutely wouldn't, the easiest and most profitable course of action for PGI is to upgrade MWO to Unreal using the work they're already putting into it, and work on bringing out the game's full potential once the limitations of the old cryengine version are no more. Starting from scratch and trying to fund a full new game requires a new set of paying customers, and the ones who get burned by losing all their progress sure aren't going to do it. An updated MWO will entice all the old customers into paying again, but a sequel to MWO will just run them all off. There's absolutely no purpose for a sequel.

And Jihad era can forever burn for all I care. That is not how you properly balance a game.

Yup. If they dumped MWO in favour of MWO 2 - even if it was awesome - I'd just walk away. I've a lot of money in MWO and would view an MWO 2 as PGI trying to clean me out with the sole intent of making me buy the same stuff again.

And I'm pretty strongly in the white knight category (if deeply cynical) - but frankly that's not a valid option.

When PGI chose this monetization scheme, supporting this game long term and growing it vs. replacing it is what they signed up for.

[Quxudica]

cazidin, on 23 December 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

How long has Star Citizen been in development? Switching to a new engine adds no fewer than 6 months to the development cycle even in the best case scenarios.

They've been implementing the change for nearly a year, and Lumberyard is pretty much just a modified CryEngine to begin with, so no it won't add six months to the games development.

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

I heard lumberyard is based on cryengine. If thats the case is it even a big move?

no, It's not. It's not really even news worthy to be honest.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 December 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Not really what I have seen in my 4.5 years here.

What I had seen, especially in the "bad year" of 2013, was certain noted Reddiots, rubbing their SC superiority in everyone's face, about how great and amazing the Messiah Chris Roberts would be, and how everything he touches turns to rainbows and unicorn farts. And constnatly comparing the greatness of SC, to the Fail of MWO.

Then as the years drug by...and people sat there, looking at their hundred to thousands dollar trailer queen space ships in their hanger, while still not even having a playable, ANYTHING.... with one delay after the next... turn their fanboi whiteknight denial into rage against everything else.....

Most of the "hate" to Star Citizen, has nothing to do with the game itself, or the publisher.... and everything to do with the arrogant bullcrap of a certain portion of their community.

It's mostly why people hate the Yankees and Cowboys.... teams that figure the answer to everything is to throw money at it... and fans who ram their overhyped teams down everyone elses throat.... tends to breed resentment.

Perhaps if a certain portion of SC Douchenozzles weren't also the very same people who have been so rabidly anti PGI/MWO for so long? There'd be more charity toward the game and it's community.

But if people are going to act like a bunch of *******, they shoudl be expected to be treated thusly, in return.

I honestly couldn't give two shakes of my leaky nozzle about Star Citizen either way. Didn't interest me when it was announced, doesn't now. But I do get a chuckle off all the delays and issues, which in so many way mirror the same ones PGI often has had (I don't know if they'll have the same balance issues... can one even fight each other yet to find out? Haven't paid attention in..well.. a while).... but with more than 20x the money to throw at the technical issues. So, yeah,, the irony is pretty amusing.

Yeah, I don't hate SC at all, though I find it hilarious how those douchnozzles who where so quick to attack PGI are still rabidly defending CIG.

The only real difference between the two is that they both released fundamentally a PvP vehicle arena game, but PGI did it on time and for 5 million,and then sold people products for that game, while CIG did it with, what, 140m?

With the exception of communication, which CIG has always done a better job of, any fault of MWO is absolutely attributable to Start Citizen as well, and then some. It's a very big glass house over there.

But even though a part of me would rejoice at SC's total failure simply to spite a few really annoying folks, I want it to succeed, and be everything that was promised. It WILL be released eventually, and it'll probably be a great game, but it's a case study in feature creep and how stretch goals can seriously impair a project.

They should have made a base game - the base persistent universe - and built on that imho. Then they would be selling a product, rather than preorders of indefinite length.

[Wintersdark]

Quxudica, on 24 December 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

They've been implementing the change for nearly a year, and Lumberyard is pretty much just a modified CryEngine to begin with, so no it won't add six months to the games development.



no, It's not. It's not really even news worthy to be honest.

Even though it's based on the same base tech, Lumberyard is not the same Cryengine CIG had been using. They used a heavily modified CryEngine 3, much like MWO uses a heavily modified CryEngine 2. For MWO to move to Cry3 would be a large move, and not trivial at all.

It's the same for SC. Going to Lumberyard is certainly easier than, say, Unreal, but it's still a great deal of work that will take the engineering team a lot of man hours. It's still probably a good move from a long term viewpoint, but assuming it won't take months is laughable ignorance at best. Engine changes - even just version updates with an engine - are never trivial changes to any game, and SC isn't just any game. If it's anywhere close to being done, it's a MAMMOTH codebase with tons of interlocking parts.

So while this may indeed be a good move, it's a move that will cost them a substantial amount of time.

And that's what makes it news.

Because even if your one of the rabid "take all the time you want" fans, there's a LOT of people who've spent a LOT of money on the game that has had many, many rough release dates over the years, and an ever advancing release date is a very valid cause for concern.

[Quxudica]

Quote

The only real difference between the two is that they both released fundamentally a PvP vehicle arena game, but PGI did it on time and for 5 million,and then sold people products for that game, while CIG did it with, what, 140m?

Well if you ignore the fact that PGI sold the MWO as the opposite of an arena game and failed to make good on almost every game play element and mechanics promise they marketed at the start. Sure I guess. I still remember the threads defending the pisspoor assault/conquest/skrimish modes by insisting they were just placeholders for the "real" game which would be CW. Years later and those modes are pretty much identical to what they were in closed Beta, though I suppose at least instead of an arbitrarily placed empty box as a base at least now we have an arbitrarily placed box with a doodad in it.

[xEdSteelex]

Ratpoison, on 24 December 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

No it absolutely wouldn't, the easiest and most profitable course of action for PGI is to upgrade MWO to Unreal using the work they're already putting into it, and work on bringing out the game's full potential once the limitations of the old cryengine version are no more. Starting from scratch and trying to fund a full new game requires a new set of paying customers, and the ones who get burned by losing all their progress sure aren't going to do it. An updated MWO will entice all the old customers into paying again, but a sequel to MWO will just run them all off. There's absolutely no purpose for a sequel.

And Jihad era can forever burn for all I care. That is not how you properly balance a game.

The Dark Age was after the Jihad, and the post Dark Age is Catalyst's current timeline where Clan and IS are roughly equal technologically. I have spent quite a bit on this game too and would like to continue using my mechs, but if a MWO2 is significantly better, I would be glad to play the new game.

[JudauAshta]

SCiti is just no man's sky 2.0 waiting to happen

[Wintersdark]

Quxudica, on 24 December 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

Well if you ignore the fact that PGI sold the MWO as the opposite of an arena game and failed to make good on almost every game play element and mechanics promise they marketed at the start. Sure I guess. I still remember the threads defending the pisspoor assault/conquest/skrimish modes by insisting they were just placeholders for the "real" game which would be CW. Years later and those modes are pretty much identical to what they were in closed Beta, though I suppose at least instead of an arbitrarily placed empty box as a base at least now we have an arbitrarily placed box with a doodad in it.

Well, that's exactly what I said, isn't it? That the only difference was that PGI did it with 5m instead of 140m, and after that just sold products people could actually use in the game (albeit with a fixed preorder period, but that's vastly different than "you can use this $1400 ship whenever we actually release the game" - and every PGI mech has released for in game play exactly when it was scheduled to do so)

CIG is doing exactly what PGI did, except at a monstrously larger scale.

Maybe CIG will deliver, in - what was it that the supporter said above? 2020? - but I'm pretty dubious.

Hell, I'm starting to wonder if PGI will release their single player game before CIG does =/

That's what just throws me about the whole deal. CIG is just PGI with mountains of cache and a knack for telling people what they want to hear, to keep those people throwing money at 'em to buy extremely impressive hangar queens.

This makes me think; if Russ had been a great communicator from the very start, would all our Bittervets still be bitter? Or is it seriously that all the angry folk are really not angry because of all the stuff that actually happened, but rather just because Russ and Co didn't tell them the right things?