297 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Tarogato, on 25 December 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

ECM does not save you from UAVs.

Radar Derp goes on all my non-ECM mechs.

AMS wastes tonnage that you could have spent toward equipment that actually helps you kills enemies more effectively and one alone (which is all that most mechs have hardpoints for) doesn't even kill enough LRMs alone to save you. It needs to be mounted in a trio with overload module to be truly effective, and no light mechs can reasonable afford that to waste that much tonnage if they want to compete against heavier mechs. .

Taking 3,5 tons from alight for triple ams is heavy,

3 heavys each taking 1,5 tons for a single ams is nothing,
if every heavy and assault would bring a single ams,
you would have more then 6 ams in a match.
You know teamutility, radius, overlapping ...

This argument is just a lame excuse to not use it.

So again: No ams, no whine.

You can start whining about lrms if there are at least 6 ams in each team in each match, until then, lrms must be underpowerd, if not people would take more counters against them.

PGI, please buff lrms damage and speed by 10% for each patch until at least half of all players in all matches take at least a single ams!

Maybe the new skilltree will change something, if you need to decide if you take the crutch or better skills.

Edited by Galenit, 27 December 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 27 December 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

Im seeing many LRM Assault Boats thats spread Heavy damage over the Reds , and stand as last Survivor against 10-12 Reds ...not one Kill ...a Assault with Direct Firing Weapons is most a Better Mate for the Team...fast Kill with little Damage is the best

then those players arent any good at it... you are describing operator error not mechanical failure. the AWS-8R, BLR-1S, MAL-1R are the top 3 IS LRM assaults and i am being kind to the Mauler... if people are running any other assault as a LRM boat then they have failed before the match even started. Stalkers dont even count cause of their lack of lower arm actuators & funky tube sizes, even a KGC-0000 is better than a Stalker... putting a single 15 or 20 on any IS Assault isnt that bad, but very few people build well rounded mechs since everything has to be hyper focused (and in this game there is case for that to be made.)

[XtremWarrior]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 December 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

yup.

Don't forget it also took David Bowie, Alan Rickman, Glenn Frey, Prince, Mohammad Ali, Anton Yelchin, Arnold Palmer, Gene Wilder, Ron Glass, John Glenn, and a whole lot more not famous people, too. Along with trying to take my mom earlier this year.

2016 just effing sucked.

You forgot Harambe...

*vanish in a smoke screen before the whole community start throwing stones*

[AphexTwin11]

Snazzy Dragon, on 24 December 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Really, if LRMs are a problem for you, maybe you should reconsider your approaches. Are you covered? Where can the enemy see you from? Do you have a way to break locks? Or are you wandering out into the open all the time and just assuming the LRMs are not going to hit you even though you (should) know better?

Tired of hearing people scream on comms about LRMs being OP when I watch them run around out in the open or through the death valleys of a map.

[Bishop Steiner]

AphexTwin11, on 27 December 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I see you your treacly pop...and raise you some overly produced alt rock.....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Can we just get MW4 LRM mechanics here?

• NARC allows makes all friendly dumbfired missiles track it and are knocked off if the section they are attached to takes enough damage or is destroyed.
  
• All lock-on missiles home on the closest "bone" of the targeted mech (so rather than the game homing for center mass for you, it was up to your aim) at the time of firing where you had to hold the reticle on the actual mech rather than inside the target box to get a lock (the last part may not be necessary since it required some twitch precision for lighter chassis).
  
• Missiles were fire and forget and required LOS which encouraged good piloting practices when it came to LRM boats as opposed to "lurms here, go get locks while I hide in my pristine assault."

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 December 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Escef]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 27 December 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

Im seeing many LRM Assault Boats thats spread Heavy damage over the Reds , and stand as last Survivor against 10-12 Reds ...not one Kill ...a Assault with Direct Firing Weapons is most a Better Mate for the Team...fast Kill with little Damage is the best

I see more brawlers dying last because they just straight up refuse to engage, attempt to flank, or do anything else useful until everyone else is dead.

Are direct fire weapons more efficient? Well, yeah, duh. Care to tell me where I said otherwise?

[I_AM_ZUUL]

also... i have seen a singular lack of people talking about how effective LRMs can be used as a psychological control weapon. I spend 3T on a lot of heavy & assault mechs whenever i can afford the tonnage/slots to add a LRM5 + 1T of ammo... can keep people pinned behind cover as you advance forward with nothing more than a warning in their ear. Cause as everyone has said who is bashing LRMs "just stay in cover", a LRM5 is just as qualified to accomplish that task as a LRM40 or 50. It is also hilarious seeing mechs cower in fear from nothing as you advance unmolested to brawl them to death... just saying

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 27 December 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[SmithMPBT]

Monkey Lover, on 24 December 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Pgi needs to turn lrms into a skill based weapon and buff the heck out of them.

The Skill is (if you're IS) is to stay outside the 180 meter minimum arming range for your primary weapon. The Skill is placing exploding ammunition all over your body while worrying a machine gun is going to wreck your IS XL engine thats built with balsa wood and paperclips. The Skill is properly placing yourself amidst your allies so that you're neither flanked by their light mech that can back shot kill ya in 2 alphas, or get to far ahead and have their lead mechs focus fire you.

Finally the Skill is picking the correct targets, taking good cover and dropping loads of LRMs on the red guy, getting 800+ damage and having your team rejoice in your LRM skills.

[The Lobsters]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 27 December 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

then those players arent any good at it... you are describing operator error not mechanical failure. the AWS-8R, BLR-1S, MAL-1R are the top 3 IS LRM assaults and i am being kind to the Mauler... if people are running any other assault as a LRM boat then they have failed before the match even started. Stalkers dont even count cause of their lack of lower arm actuators & funky tube sizes, even a KGC-0000 is better than a Stalker... putting a single 15 or 20 on any IS Assault isnt that bad, but very few people build well rounded mechs since everything has to be hyper focused (and in this game there is case for that to be made.)

If the critisim is lrm assault standing at the rear doing little to swing the game, you can level that at a lot of ppfld assaults too. It's playstyle (or lack of) that is the problem here, not the weapons.

You can say that there shouldn't be a thing called an assault mech lrm boat. There are assault mechs that do lrms well, but the lurms should really be used as part of a balance build, coz only assaults have the tonnage to do decent lrm's and have another weapon system.

This is an assault lrm BOAT

This is an assault with lrms

The first one stands at the back with it silly amounts of ammo and fights vicariously.

The second one finds the push, hoses the enemy and dunks them with a lrm salvo when they think they've gotten behind cover.

[Torezu]

The one place and situation I hate fighting against LRMs: Polar Highlands, against any team with a NARC and either a LRM boat or multiple mechs with LRMs. Last match that happened, I was in an otherwise undamaged 'hopper and was annihilated by LRMs in about 15-20 seconds.

On any other map, in almost any situation where I'm hit with a NARC, I can find cover to wait it out, if I find myself actually getting hit with a significant number of missiles. On that one...it feels like a very cheap way to die.

Edited by Torezu, 28 December 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The Lobsters, on 27 December 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

The second one finds the push, hoses the enemy and dunks them with a lrm salvo when they think they've gotten behind cover.

The second one does neither, because it requires too much face time and is meant for a range that is not kind to LRMs. LRMs are much better at mid-long range where mechs have a lot less time to find cover from them (ie AC5/10s are a much better fit).

[L3mming2]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

pity when it was proposed, all the compies cried about it being a terribad idea.


wow...so LRMs are actually...kind of good, on one map. whereas PPFLD is it's same brokeazz nonsense on every map?


and instagib alphas, are fun to play against?

i'm giving lrm's a go, and im finding they are actualy quite ok.
build used,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e67894b640a2d61

i have gotten quite good results (1000+ damage and 6kill maches), no they are not op, but i stand by my point,
on a map like polar they are broken.

IMO polar has to change not LRM's

[Snazzy Dragon]

L3mming2, on 27 December 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

i'm giving lrm's a go, and im finding they are actualy quite ok.
build used,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e67894b640a2d61

i have gotten quite good results (1000+ damage and 6kill maches), no they are not op, but i stand by my point,
on a map like polar they are broken.

IMO polar has to change not LRM's

It's almost like when you take the LRMs off, you have 42 firepower from 5 medium lasers, for 5 tons, reaching to 450m, while an IS mech has to mount 2 large lasers and 5 mediums to get 43 firepower for 15 tons, with only 297m optimal range in most cases. Hmm.. is that where the damage is coming from on other maps?

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 27 December 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[L3mming2]

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's almost like when you take the LRMs off, you have 42 firepower from 5 medium lasers, for 5 tons, reaching to 450m, while an IS mech has to mount 2 large lasers and 5 mediums to get 43 firepower for 15 tons, with only 297m optimal range in most cases. Hmm.. is that where the damage is coming from on other maps?

its 6 ERML's, and i compare my results against the laser vomit timby 2 lpl's and 5 erml's,
and its actualy doing a bit beter so far...

[Bishop Steiner]

L3mming2, on 27 December 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

i'm giving lrm's a go, and im finding they are actualy quite ok.
build used,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e67894b640a2d61

i have gotten quite good results (1000+ damage and 6kill maches), no they are not op, but i stand by my point,
on a map like polar they are broken.

IMO polar has to change not LRM's

Wow, so one map they are "broken", whereas every map KDK3s, etc are.

And yet even on Polar I rarely find them a big deal. (Lot's of concealment, even if cover is lacking. Will admit, if you get narc'd, you are toast, though)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 December 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

Will admit, if you get narc'd, you are toast, though)

That is one of those situations where LRMs can be broken and is just a reminder of why lock-on missile mechanics need a complete re-work just like the KDK-3 still needs tuning.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 December 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

That is one of those situations where LRMs can be broken and is just a reminder of why lock-on missile mechanics need a complete re-work just like the KDK-3 still needs tuning.

IDK...I'd say one scenario, on one map, not that big a deal. Now if you could specifically choose a certain map each time, great. But the number of times that LRMboat gets anally rekt, compared to the dog having it's day, I'd say is a pretty hefty ratio.

I don't love LRMs as is, but also don't get the QQ.... or the TBH; rather narrow minded, self serving and to be blunt, imbecilic "taks no skillz bruh" stuff. (not attributing such comments to you, or Lemming, etc)

But that's just me.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 December 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

IDK...I'd say one scenario, on one map, not that big a deal.

Sure it isn't problematic outside of a very narrow set of scenarios, but having something that is massively UP in most situations and OP in a very small set of scenarios is indicative of something that needs to be fixed. I really want to LRMs to be both viable in more competitive settings and take a bit more skill than they do now (they shouldn't be the best way for bad players to target lights).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 December 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[The Lobsters]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 December 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

The second one does neither, because it requires too much face time and is meant for a range that is not kind to LRMs. LRMs are much better at mid-long range where mechs have a lot less time to find cover from them (ie AC5/10s are a much better fit).

It's a mid range fit, it works fine, for me anyway. You need to do your HBK-4J apprenticeship first though, and be good at dumbfiring missiles. 200-300m from the enemy is a good range. 750m and you need to man up and get closer.

My point is, if you want to do lrm's on an assault, don't boat them. Fit for mid-range, make sure you have good guns, find the push and support it.


Also, if I was doing AC5/10 then I wouldn't be using the 1R.