89 replies to this topic

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

So a slow Assault mech with weapons that are effective at limited range?

You mean like most of the brawler Atlas builds?

[Tarl Cabot]

I want my isUAC10..with a durable isXL engine... Who am I kidding, unlike the Clans, there is nothing that really fits next to it, unlike their cERML.

Oh way, I can dream

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 December 2016 - 06:56 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Shadowomega1, on 26 December 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

That is assuming they don't give it a longer burn time like they did with all ER weapons. Only Mechwarrior game that had burn time was MW3 and that was only on the Pulse lasers as they were a constant beam till you let off the trigger or burned out the charge.

Giving ER weapons longer burn is a bit counter-intuitive. Burn is a direct offset to immediate damage dealt, not range. To stop a 7-damage weapon from straight-up outclassing a 5-damage one, you make it take longer to deal that damage. Heat, though, that stops your DPS most effectively, meaning that you can't really defend yourself effectively with that weapon against more purpose-built close-range weapons. Giving the ER Pulse 7 heat is enough to make it less useful up close, increasing its duration would make it entirely pointless because duration is the raison d'être for pulse lasers; it's just not enough to justify an extra ton so they also get 1 more point of damage.

So my original point stands; you can't really have the ER pulse without having destructive overlap with existing equipment.

Heavy lasers later in the timeline, though...

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Careful, this logic is how you get added to his ignore list! Ask me how I know.

Yeah I really want these LBX apologists to stop. They are not helping at all for getting some deserved LBX buffs.

Escef, on 26 December 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

You mean like most of the brawler Atlas builds?

Yes, very situational. At least brawler Atlas has good staying power and faster speed.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 December 2016 - 07:06 PM.

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Yes, very situational. At least Atlas has good staying power.

Honestly, the Mauler is a tad light for pulling off quad LB10X. Makes me think the Annihilator would be really fun, though.

[FupDup]

[Davers]

I don't think the game needs more inferior weapon choices. The IS really isn't losing anything by not having them.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

LBX10 is still a bad weapon. Especially without quirks.

As a clanner, it's our best ballastic weapon outside of the gauss. cUAC are really that ****.

The spread has been improved considerably. Sometimes it seems RNG, with a pellet or two going outside of the spread. They do 2 points of bonus damage against unarmored. They have a place in the arsenal as far as clans are concerned.

If you want buffs, DON'T LIE ABOUT THEIR CURRENT CAPABILITIES.

Edited by Snowbluff, 26 December 2016 - 09:30 PM.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 26 December 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

As a clanner, it's our best ballastic weapon outside of the gauss. cUAC are really that ****.

The spread has been improved considerably. Sometimes it seems RNG, with a pellet or two going outside of the spread. They do 2 points of bonus damage against unarmored. They have a place in the arsenal as far as clans are concerned.

If you want buffs, DON'T LIE ABOUT THEIR CURRENT CAPABILITIES.

If that is what you really believe, then I have nothing to say to you. I hope I face you as my opponent in my matches all the time.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

If that is what you really believe, then I have nothing to say to you. I hope I face you as my opponent in my matches all the time.

Okay, prove it then. Make an argument for the Jamming Auto Cannon. The superiority of a front loaded weapon over a duration based one continues to be apparent. Seeing as you only have years old memes to go on, I'll wait.

Edited by Snowbluff, 26 December 2016 - 11:46 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Snowbluff, on 26 December 2016 - 11:40 PM, said:

Okay, prove it then. Make an argument for the Jamming Auto Cannon. The superiority of a front loaded weapon over a duration based one continues to be apparent. I'll wait.

You don't have to double tap an UAC and can maintain steady DPS, the damage doesn't pepper spray all over an enemy mech past 400m, and RNG can love you and give you a wholw 60 seconds of glory? And LBX-crits are inferior to T-Comp UAC bonuses??? How about the decreased slots and more ammo per ton?????

[Snowbluff]

Snazzy Dragon, on 26 December 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

You don't have to double tap an UAC and can maintain steady DPS, the damage doesn't pepper spray all over an enemy mech past 400m, and RNG can love you and give you a wholw 60 seconds of glory? And LBX-crits are inferior to T-Comp UAC bonuses??? How about the decreased slots and more ammo per ton?????

1) The damage does pepper all over mechs with UAC. It's duration based. You assuming a perfect shot with the UAC, which means we have to assume a perfect shot with an LBX, which will get most of your damage on target.
2) RNG is being averaged. AFAICT, UAC is ~20% bonus to DPS in an ideal condition. LBX critical damage is ~20% bonus it an ideal situation (though that's a crude estimation).
3) Decreased slots and ammo? The slots are slightly higher for LBX, but ammo amounts are the same (or rather, damage per ton of ammo). So that's almost an entirely categorically incorrect statement, but I'll let it slide since I looked it up, too. Furthermore: how much of a case can be made for LBX sizes mattering compared to UAC? THe only one I can think of is 3 UAC5 in a MAD IIC side torso.
4) Or rather, isn't carrying a targeting computer making your weapon effectively heavier? You'd need to double the crit chance of the LBX to achieve the same effect in terms of pure crit damage. It's not really worth it AFAICT.

Edited by Snowbluff, 26 December 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Snowbluff, on 26 December 2016 - 11:40 PM, said:

Okay, prove it then. Make an argument for the Jamming Auto Cannon. The superiority of a front loaded weapon over a duration based one continues to be apparent. Seeing as you only have years old memes to go on, I'll wait.

"Hot balls, that sure is a boatload of damage, innit?"


The primary reason

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 December 2016 - 11:55 PM.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 26 December 2016 - 11:40 PM, said:

Okay, prove it then. Make an argument for the Jamming Auto Cannon. The superiority of a front loaded weapon over a duration based one continues to be apparent. Seeing as you only have years old memes to go on, I'll wait.

Perhaps your eyesight has gone bad. I said:

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

If that is what you really believe, then I have nothing to say to you. I hope I face you as my opponent in my matches all the time.

There are plenty of forumites who are lining up to prove you wrong.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 December 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[RestosIII]

Honestly, the real question that should be asked is why their entire line of UAC's and SSRM's aren't in the game. Y'know, weapon systems that would actually help the IS a bit.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Perhaps your eyesight has gone bad. I said:



There are plenty of forumites who are lining up to prove you wrong.

And yet you speak.

Mcgral18, on 26 December 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

"Hot balls, that sure is a boatload of damage, innit?"


The primary reason

I'm not mystified by excess damage in a kill. Personally, I'm trying to improve my damage/kill ratio. In general, improving my performance by finding weakness of enemy opponents, improving position, accuracy, as well as reading loadouts to determine if a mech needs an XL check or not.

Which is awful for someone like me, who does genuinely get turned by the Goose Waffle for it being too effective. :l

[razenWing]

So... about the concept of "split crit" meaning, a 12 slot weapon can be split between 2 adjacent components?

(Like 6 in arm and 6 in torso?)

[banana peel]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

LBX10 is still a bad weapon. Especially without quirks.

And that is the only "argument" you layed in this thread.

I've already broken down, why IS lbx10 has its place. Now lets go with clan ones. Clan uac10 salvo is not a pinpoint damage. Its a line of three bullets that - surpise! - sprays all over the non-potato mech. And it consumes 1 more heat. And it is slower. And cooldown doesnt start until third bullet leaves the barrel, so dps is even less. And it got nerfed down to 8 sec jam, which brings to the ground its raw dps boost from doubletapping. Again, i can break down the math, but it seems, it is just not worth my time.

Still uacs are better for midrange peek trades and 500m+ range skirmish. But lbx10 is a far more better brawling clan weapon now. My quad lbx10 KDK wipes EVERY other KDK-3 it faces within 400m. And i am an average player.

I could use some spread reduction for clan and IS lbx10. But as for other parameters they are in a fine spot now as shotguns. Ability to switch ammo would be sweet though.

I've wrighten all this not as much for you, of course, as i see from you no intention of hearing arguments. I just dont want less experienced players, that read this thread, to be misled by the ignorance of a veteran forum warrior. No offence, its simply what it is.

Edited by banana peel, 27 December 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Davers, on 26 December 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

I don't think the game needs more inferior weapon choices. The IS really isn't losing anything by not having them.

Actually the IS is missing something.

The ability to be better balanced against the Clans because they have a fully equivalent list of weapons.

You can't properly balance the Clan ER Small/Medium, UAC 2/10/20, LBX 2/5/20 and Streak 4/6 because the IS doesn't have their versions of the weapons, therefore, in this case, the Clans are well and truly OP, simply because the IS doesn't have their versions of those weapons.

[El Bandito]

banana peel, on 27 December 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

And that is the only "argument" you layed in this thread.

I've already broken down, why IS lbx10 has its place. Now lets go with clan ones. Clan uac10 salvo is not a pinpoint damage. Its a line of three bullets that - surpise! - sprays all over the non-potato mech. And it consumes 1 more heat. And it is slower. And cooldown doesnt start until third bullet leaves the barrel, so dps is even less. And it got nerfed down to 8 sec jam, which brings to the ground its raw dps boost from doubletapping. Again, i can break down the math, but it seems, it is just not worth my time.

Still uacs are better for midrange peek trades and 500m+ range skirmish. But lbx10 is a far more better brawling clan weapon now. My quad lbx10 KDK wipes EVERY other KDK-3 it faces within 400m. And i am an average player.

I could use some spread reduction for clan and IS lbx10. But as for other parameters they are in a fine spot now as shotguns. Ability to switch ammo would be sweet though.

I've wrighten all this not as much for you, of course, as i see from you no intention of hearing arguments. I just dont want less experienced players, that read this thread, to be misled by the ignorance of a veteran forum warrior. No offence, its simply what it is.

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

So a slow Assault mech with weapons that are effective at limited range? I can see that it being good in pug queue where there are plenty of potato opponents. Hell, I am owning faces with LRM only Archer.

LBX10 is still a bad weapon. Especially without quirks.

I'd rather have my gun to shoot 3.3 damage for 3 round burst than spreading it with ten 1 damage pellets. And I am frankly tired of correcting every two-bit forumite who thinks the LBX is the hottest stuff right now just because UACs got jam nerf, and they managed to kill some mechs in pug queue, using LBX. Yes, LBX has its use, but in a very limited scope, so one is generally much better off using UACs. It's a bloody self-evident fact. Do you see any top teams use LBX in their matches more than UACs?

Edited by El Bandito, 27 December 2016 - 07:33 AM.