37 replies to this topic

[Calcite]

Lets not give the clans their, power this easy

Edited by Dave warrior2, 26 December 2016 - 03:32 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Dave warrior2, on 26 December 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

Lets not give the clans their, power this easy

It's a Mist Lynx, what are you afraid of?

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

It's a Mist Lynx, what are you afraid of?

Being killed by something 75 tons lighter?

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

In this case, the stupidly huge arms is part of the 'Mech's identity; pragmatism has to take a back-seat because that identity is part of the appeal of the 'Mech. Without the stupidly huge arms, it's not a Mist Lynx any more. Artificial or not, the current solution works.

Is it though? Have you looked at Catalysts latest models? Here is the MLX-P, with all 8 energy:



Notice how everything is fit within the base mounting.

This is the MLX-C, with two energy in the right arm:



And the MLX-D, with two energy right arm:



Compare that to what we have in MWO. This is where these images are coming from: http://bg.battletech...-image-gallery/



It's similar in this art as well, no huge housing:



And the housing in the original art wasn't even as big as the hardpoints in MWO get:






Sure, when you add massive amounts of LRM tubes to its arms, it can get pretty ridiculous,






But that is rather characteristic for missile tubes. For energy mounts it does not have to be as absurd.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Is it though? Have you looked at Catalysts latest models? Here is the MLX-P, with all 8 energy:



...

For energy mounts it does not have to be as absurd.

That is just as absurd as the way it currently is, you've just got some of it poking outward rather than downward. Actually I would say it is even more wasteful since most of that space is unused, and the hands are bigger.

Regardless, you are still advocating for more expensive work where none really has to be performed. The problem is fixed on all but the 2xE pods.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

That is just as absurd as the way it currently is, you've just got some of it poking outward rather than downward. Actually I would say it is even more wasteful since most of that space is unused, and the hands are bigger.

You missed the part where the first image was as ridiculous as it could possibly get - four-energy per arm. There is no MLX in the game presently with a four-energy arm, yet the two-energy mounts we have in game are already bigger targets than Catalyst's full four-energy housing. Have another look:





That above is the MLX-B left arm that we use on many builds in MWO.


Yet in MWO, this is what we have to put up with --- it's a PLATE that is almost designed to collect damage just like the Centurion's shield arm:

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

Regardless, you are still advocating for more expensive work where none really has to be performed. The problem is fixed on all but the 2xE pods.

Expensive work? Just making the adjustment that I linked originally would probably only be an hour's work at most. We've seen modelers doing their work on PGI's live streams, we know the rate at which they can produce things. This kind of change is not a massive undertaking.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 December 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

You missed the part where the first image was as ridiculous as it could possibly get - four-energy per arm. There is no MLX in the game presently with a four-energy arm, yet the two-energy mounts we have in game are already bigger targets than Catalyst's full four-energy housing. Have another look:





That above is the MLX-B left arm that we use on many builds in MWO.

Catalyst's B-pod right-arm would catch even more flak than the MWO one. The profile on the lower portion is not appreciably smaller, but we've now added this giant box up top that is going to catch high shots that otherwise would have missed.

The left arm is not even the same model as the others, even when the others zero offensive hard-points. It's not consistent.

Quote

Yet in MWO, this is what we have to put up with --- it's a PLATE that is almost designed to collect damage just like the Centurion's shield arm:

Two more energy boxes added to the E arm at the wrist makes it look more essentially like the B right arm. It's not that bad.

And it would be a plate regardless. You are not precise enough to shoot through the loop in the arm regardless, so you will not fix anything by making the boxes smaller. We still need just as much of the quirk.

Quote

Expensive work? Just making the adjustment that I linked originally would probably only be an hour's work at most. We've seen modelers doing their work on PGI's live streams, we know the rate at which they can produce things. This kind of change is not a massive undertaking.

As opposed to 120 seconds in an XML file?

One of these requires more budgeting of your day's activities. The other can be done with one hand during your lunch break.

I will lobby against you on this in perpetuity. You will not convince me to accept smaller boxes. If the visuals on it change, I will sell them, because how they look right now is why I bought them. Just like I would sell the Battlemasters if they swapped to a bubble canopy. The Mist Lynx will never be a comp 'Mech because it is way too slow, so it is not worth sacrificing how it looks just to scrape 0.5% performance out of it, which you aren't actually doing because you are advocating this change more to suit your sensibilities about "artificial" performance enhancements rather than for real performance reasons.

P.S. Catalyst's model looks like sh*t. Again.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 26 December 2016 - 05:01 PM.

[Dee Eight]

The lynx doesn't need more buffs. Honestly the set of 8 bonuses were enough considering it didn't grow during the re-scale, nor change the movement archtype (like the cheetah and spider did) so it still fits under the ramps on HPG. Play it as its meant to be... a scout and harasser. It'll never be a brawler except against slow & taller targets of opportunity.

[Y E O N N E]

Brawler is exactly what the Mist Lynx's most powerful role is, even against other Lights.

Scout, on the other hand, it's too slow for. If it gets caught out, it has a harder time escaping.

[Kaonicping]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Brawler is exactly what the Mist Lynx's most powerful role is, even against other Lights.

Scout, on the other hand, it's too slow for. If it gets caught out, it has a harder time escaping.

We keep coming back to this idea of it being too slow. Is it really too much to ask to bump its speed up by 20 kph, at the cost of losing a CAP no-one even needs?

As for not following lore, I think a small boost to a mech's engine is less of a major divergence from BattleTech lore than creating an entire new mech, or giving mechs hardpoints they didn't have before.

Edited by Kaonicping, 26 December 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[RestosIII]

Kaonicping, on 26 December 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

We keep coming back to this idea of it being too slow. Is it really too much to ask to bump its speed up by 20 kph, at the cost of losing a CAP no-one even needs?

As for not following lore, I think a small boost to a mech's engine is less of a major divergence from BattleTech lore than creating an entire new mech, or giving mechs hardpoints they didn't have before.

The Roughneck, while I dislike it, instantly got a thumbs-up from Catalyst, so it's true to lore. Different mech hardpoints/builds? I feel a bit weird about them, but in the cases of hero mechs and mechs that PGI refuses to add new tech for, I can admit to existing. But making an entire mech chassis get the wrong engine, with no way to change it to the proper one again considering it's an omnimech? Hell no. There's a line I'm going to draw in the sand, and you found it.

[Y E O N N E]

Kaonicping, on 26 December 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

We keep coming back to this idea of it being too slow. Is it really too much to ask to bump its speed up by 20 kph, at the cost of losing a CAP no-one even needs?

As for not following lore, I think a small boost to a mech's engine is less of a major divergence from BattleTech lore than creating an entire new mech, or giving mechs hardpoints they didn't have before.

If I want to play a small, zippy Light, I've got the Arctic Cheetah, Locust, Commando, and soon maybe the Firemoth or Piranha to choose from. Like big arms, being slow is part of the Mist Lynx's identity. That, and having lots of jump-jets. That's what it is: a moderate speed Light with incredible bounce. If it runs at 143 kph, we're just making it into another also-ran rather than something fun and interesting to mess with when we're not try-harding with the better-equipped alternatives.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Just like I would sell the Battlemasters if they swapped to a bubble canopy.

[JudauAshta]

i got a better solution

just play arctic cheetah

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 26 December 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

[adamts01]

It's just an insult that they gave this mech UAC quirks. I don't know if it's because a MLX pilot stole someone's girlfriend or if it's because they have literally zero clue about the game. Anyway. letting us remove CAP would be huge, either that or give us Electronic Warfare so that 1 ton of gear would at least be useful. And that engine..... the 175 s one of those engines that just shouldn't be used. You can get a 180 for the exact same tonnage, with zero drawbacks, so why the 175? And!!! for just .5 tons more, you can step up to a XL195, giving you a speed of 123.1/132.4!! And for a single ton more than the 175 (which you'd pick up from not having CAP) the XL200 puts you at 129.6/139.3 and switches an external heatsink for internal. OP did mention the engine stuff briefly, but I wanted to write a little more, just to show how idiotic it is to have the crappy XL175 in this thing. That motor alone gimps this mech right out of the factory. For the sake of gameplay they need to unlock CAP at the least, give an option for the XL200 at best, or at least give us the XL180 as stock because it's the exact same tonnage.

[Y E O N N E]

Unless you are trying to turn the Mist Lynx into a Div A competitive machine, you don't need to give it a better engine. It is perfectly serviceable for Quick Play, even at Tier 1.

[Kaonicping]

RestosIII, on 26 December 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

The Roughneck, while I dislike it, instantly got a thumbs-up from Catalyst, so it's true to lore. Different mech hardpoints/builds? I feel a bit weird about them, but in the cases of hero mechs and mechs that PGI refuses to add new tech for, I can admit to existing. But making an entire mech chassis get the wrong engine, with no way to change it to the proper one again considering it's an omnimech? Hell no. There's a line I'm going to draw in the sand, and you found it.

I was thinking that only one variant should be changed to have no CAP, 1 fewer external DHS and an XL200. That way you can choose whether you want the extra ton from no CAP, whether you want to go faster or even if you want a more lore-accurate build. I really don't see how this is deeply immoral as it would seriously help this chassis's flexibility and speed.

Edited by Kaonicping, 27 December 2016 - 05:49 AM.