128 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 27 December 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

And cool!

But seriously, is there anyone for whom lifting a finger off one mouse button while pressing another is really so challenging? I mean, is it physically difficult to lift your index finger and press your middle finger down at the same time?

I don't understand why this is seen as sorcery requiring aid to accomplish.

But maybe it's just me, and normal humans game wearing mittens?

Or are one button mice really that common?

In my opinion, it has something to do with cognitive dissonance or something similar. The joystick trick I gave above gets rid of that.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 27 December 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

In my opinion, it has something to do with cognitive dissonance or something similar. The joystick trick I gave above gets rid of that.

Pictured: Sorcery!

[RestosIII]

Wintersdark, on 27 December 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

And cool!

But seriously, is there anyone for whom lifting a finger off one mouse button while pressing another is really so challenging? I mean, is it physically difficult to lift your index finger and press your middle finger down at the same time?

I don't understand why this is seen as sorcery requiring aid to accomplish.

But maybe it's just me, and normal humans game wearing mittens?

Or are one button mice really that common?

Wintersdark, on 27 December 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Pictured: Sorcery!

Give me an actual way to tell if it's charged up or not reliably with the UI besides a terrible color/sound change, and I'll be slightly less pissy about the charge-up. Until then, I'm going to continue advocating for it to not exist. I gave up on goose rifles after a match in my Shadow Cat where I charged up my rifle and it failed to fire 10 times in a row because I couldn't tell when the hell it was supposed to go off, and I died horribly because of it.

[Kimberm1911]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Give me an actual way to tell if it's charged up or not reliably with the UI besides a terrible color/sound change, and I'll be slightly less pissy about the charge-up. Until then, I'm going to continue advocating for it to not exist. I gave up on goose rifles after a match in my Shadow Cat where I charged up my rifle and it failed to fire 10 times in a row because I couldn't tell when the hell it was supposed to go off, and I died horribly because of it.

Part of the problem is that the game is not colorblind friendly in the slightest. I have trained myself to play the game, but as someone who is colorblind, it was difficult at first. The charge up on the gauss wasn't bad, I always struggled with the mech damage indicator.

[RestosIII]

Kimberm1911, on 27 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Part of the problem is that the game is not colorblind friendly in the slightest. I have trained myself to play the game, but as someone who is colorblind, it was difficult at first. The charge up on the gauss wasn't bad, I always struggled with the mech damage indicator.

I can't tell how damaged I am at all with my eyesight, and can't use the minimap period. The new ally/enemy icons really helped me, but I still have trouble on Viridian Bog and the like being able to identify where anything is. The Gauss charge is the worst offender though. If we had a colorblind setting for enemy colors, the old minimap, no Gauss charge, and HTAL, the game would be a LOT friendlier to me.

[Xmith]

ExplicitContent, on 26 December 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

I play quite a bit of loadouts with the goose waffle and I think it would be detrimental to the game if the charge up were to go away. It may not be a weapon that everyone loves to play because it doesn't favor the brawler builds, but in its current state I feel that it most definitely has its place on the battlefield. Now, the duration of the cooldown on the other hand, I think could be dialed down a touch. But at the end of the day, I still play them because its a fun play style from time to time.

goose waffle? come on man, it's Gauss Rifle

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Give me an actual way to tell if it's charged up or not reliably with the UI besides a terrible color/sound change, and I'll be slightly less pissy about the charge-up. Until then, I'm going to continue advocating for it to not exist. I gave up on goose rifles after a match in my Shadow Cat where I charged up my rifle and it failed to fire 10 times in a row because I couldn't tell when the hell it was supposed to go off, and I died horribly because of it.

Chances are you would have died horribly regardless because Gauss on a Shadow Cat is terrible and managing to snap off one or two 15-damage slugs while under fire wouldn't have made a difference.

Just sayin'.

[Pariah Devalis]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I can't tell how damaged I am at all with my eyesight, and can't use the minimap period. The new ally/enemy icons really helped me, but I still have trouble on Viridian Bog and the like being able to identify where anything is. The Gauss charge is the worst offender though. If we had a colorblind setting for enemy colors, the old minimap, no Gauss charge, and HTAL, the game would be a LOT friendlier to me.

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

Chances are you would have died horribly regardless because Gauss on a Shadow Cat is terrible and managing to snap off one or two 15-damage slugs while under fire wouldn't have made a difference.

Just sayin'.

SHC Prime is hilarious in stock mode, though. No ECM, but squirrely!

As for making things easier, even though I do not have color deficiency, I still tend to slave all unused weapon groups to my gauss. In the GIF I posted way earlier (page 3 I think? edit: page 4), you might be able to see all my weapon groups aside from 2 change color or, in the case of color deficiency, change shade when fully charged. I did it so I could more easily get a visual queue when in a brawl with Gauss, since hearing it charge over the sound of getting gut punched by AC and SRM can be difficult.

I do, however, wish they added a more noticeable indicator for it being "ready," however. Like if they changed shape, or had a contrasting outline when fully charged. Something to make it easier for those with difficulty identifying blue-green contrast. While it is easy for me, it is still a clear issue I can see, given my training in the optical field. It needs either higher contrast, or additional UI elements to indicate it is charged. Even if it is as simple as the word "READY" in bold letters that suddenly appear next to the reticule when the gauss is primed.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 December 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I just know it's a 0.75 second charge and roughly count it. It's muscle memory at this point.

[Fleeb the Mad]

The only thing I personally lament about the Gauss charge is that was created to mitigate boating and consequently made boating the most practical way to continue to use it.

I find it's not worth dealing with the added complexity and exposure when you can't carry two. The charge-up hurt some of the lighter ballistic-centric chassis that weren't part of the problem. You'll notice for example the Grid Iron only saw heavy use when quirks gave it an obscene fire rate. The AC-20 is much more cumbersome due to its critical needs, and the AC-10 is...well. It's the AC-10. It makes life difficult for some of the faster run and gun mechs that are hardpoint starved, like the Dragon, that used to be serviceable with a gauss and a few medium pulse lasers.

Those things are casualties of fighting the meta I suppose. I'd personally rather they pushed forward with a system intended to limit long range PPFLD in general, rather than constantly trying to balance for the flavor of the day in terms of combinations.

[Y E O N N E]

Very few Gauss builds use two. The Kodiak, Night Gyr, and Dire Wolf are the only 'Mechs you frequently see two on. The Timberwolf, Huntsman, Ebon Jaguar, Hellbringer, Blackjack, Rifleman, Marauder all bring one. Occasionally, you'll find an Ebon Jag or Warhammer bringing two, but that's not the usual.

[Wintersdark]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I can't tell how damaged I am at all with my eyesight, and can't use the minimap period. The new ally/enemy icons really helped me, but I still have trouble on Viridian Bog and the like being able to identify where anything is. The Gauss charge is the worst offender though. If we had a colorblind setting for enemy colors, the old minimap, no Gauss charge, and HTAL, the game would be a LOT friendlier to me.

Yeah, no argument here. The game desperately needs a better HUD in a lot of ways. And yeah, even as someone who's not at all colorblind I still put my Gauss rifles into whichever main group I want (1-3) and every single one of 4-6 just so more light up, but to be honest at this point I don't use any indicators at all now, it's purely habit how long you need to hold to charge and how long you can hold the charge.

I think asking to fix the display is a MUCH better request than removing the charge and turning it into an ac15.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

I just know it's a 0.75 second charge and roughly count it. It's muscle memory at this point.

I listen to particular part of the charging sound before I let go of the trigger. Sometimes it doesn't work cause there are too many things going on.

[MischiefSC]

The charge up doesn't just limit who can use it, it stops snap shots and prevents exploiting the high velocity and long range on the move.

It all but requires you to stare at a target for a couple seconds for each shot, forcing it into parity with lasers. I can effectively trade with Erlls vs goose builds because the charge up forces them into about a full second of aiming.

If gauss can snap fire it eliminates erlls as a trade option at range, it runs cool and would be fine with any short/mid/long laser build.

It would eliminated any need for any other ballistics save some heavy boating for DPS - which, honestly, would still likely play inferior to laser + gauss.

[Y E O N N E]

Gauss can be snap-fired, as long as you know where the target is before you expose. That's part of the skill.

[Pariah Devalis]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

The charge up doesn't just limit who can use it, it stops snap shots and prevents exploiting the high velocity and long range on the move.

It all but requires you to stare at a target for a couple seconds for each shot, forcing it into parity with lasers. I can effectively trade with Erlls vs goose builds because the charge up forces them into about a full second of aiming.

If gauss can snap fire it eliminates erlls as a trade option at range, it runs cool and would be fine with any short/mid/long laser build.

It would eliminated any need for any other ballistics save some heavy boating for DPS - which, honestly, would still likely play inferior to laser + gauss.

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Gauss can be snap-fired, as long as you know where the target is before you expose. That's part of the skill.

Exactly this. You absolutely can snap fire Gauss. You just need to have a general idea of the enemy location and a good feel for the charge period to do so. Few things in this game are quite as rewarding as charging a gauss while swinging your guns, only for the gun to be charged just as the reticule clicks over an enemy light mech, and then watching it obliterate.

Unlike most of the weapons in this game, Gauss requires extra levels of thinking. With most weapons, your only concerns are the trajectories of targets and appropriate lead to put a shot on target. With gauss, you also need to take into account how long the gauss spool up is such that you can take advantage of the extremely narrow firing window, and get your torso lined up in the time the gun is charging, meaning you have a whole other layer of mental calculations to crunch. Being proficient with the weapon system is just oh so satisfying.

In my opinion, about the only other weapon system in any game as satisfying to use well is to get a blue plate special with a spinfusor.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 December 2016 - 06:53 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

The charge up doesn't just limit who can use it, it stops snap shots and prevents exploiting the high velocity and long range on the move.

It all but requires you to stare at a target for a couple seconds for each shot, forcing it into parity with lasers. I can effectively trade with Erlls vs goose builds because the charge up forces them into about a full second of aiming.

If gauss can snap fire it eliminates erlls as a trade option at range, it runs cool and would be fine with any short/mid/long laser build.

It would eliminated any need for any other ballistics save some heavy boating for DPS - which, honestly, would still likely play inferior to laser + gauss.

The charge doesn't prevent anything, it only discourages EVERYONE from doing it. Anyone that knows how to adapt to an awkward weapons system will stick with it, have their gauss charged AS they peek, rather than peek and then charge.

Parity with lasers? You can torso twist laser fire on reaction. You can't make a gauss shot spread all over your mech. A good gauss user will ensure by the time your laser is firing their shot is already done and over with.

Gauss already does kind of eliminate ERLL trading. Unless 5 ERLL grasshoppers dominate Kodiak 3s with double gauss + PPC on the battlefield?

Gauss + lasers was the "in" thing before all the laser nerfs through quirks and stats even with charge, so to get the same performace people shrugged and brought PPCs instead with them.

If gauss had a shorter cooldown than it already does there would be significantly less dakka boats fielded than there already are.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 27 December 2016 - 06:59 PM.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

If gauss had a shorter cooldown than it already does there would be significantly less dakka boats fielded than there already are.

'grumbles about the already stupidly low cooldown for it'

[Y E O N N E]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 December 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

In my opinion, about the only other weapon system in any game as satisfying to use well is to get a blue plate special with a spinfusor.

Hmmm, you should try the MDM Mortar in Battlezone II. You have a two-stage trigger; holding it down will send mortars flying, but releasing and clicking again will detonate them. You can either get a direct hit, which deals extra damage but is harder to land due to its slow, arcing trajectory, or you can manually detonate it near the target for less, but still significant, damage. It's so satisfying driving around in the squishiest vehicle (Mortar Bike) and winning duels with laser users with your superior marksmanship, clever use of terrain, and resource denial (using the splash to destroy power-ups).

[RestosIII]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 December 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

SHC Prime is hilarious in stock mode, though. No ECM, but squirrely!

As for making things easier, even though I do not have color deficiency, I still tend to slave all unused weapon groups to my gauss. In the GIF I posted way earlier (page 3 I think? edit: page 4), you might be able to see all my weapon groups aside from 2 change color or, in the case of color deficiency, change shade when fully charged. I did it so I could more easily get a visual queue when in a brawl with Gauss, since hearing it charge over the sound of getting gut punched by AC and SRM can be difficult.

I do, however, wish they added a more noticeable indicator for it being "ready," however. Like if they changed shape, or had a contrasting outline when fully charged. Something to make it easier for those with difficulty identifying blue-green contrast. While it is easy for me, it is still a clear issue I can see, given my training in the optical field. It needs either higher contrast, or additional UI elements to indicate it is charged. Even if it is as simple as the word "READY" in bold letters that suddenly appear next to the reticule when the gauss is primed.

I decided to bite the bullet and try running my Shadow Cat Prime setup again for the first time in probably 5 months with that weapon grouping setup. Sweet jesus does it help. I managed to get through a full match without a misfire, which is a bloody miracle. It's a bandaid fix that doesn't fix the problem fully, but it definitely helps. I really appreciate you pointing that out.