19 replies to this topic

[noleet]

Hi all,

i just was curious about the new MG improvements. I tried to find out how much damage such a MG to internals does. The crit damage transfer is 15% of the crit damage. That is ~1300% for MG and assumed to be negligible for laser weapons. The total dps to internals of one MG was given in a patch note of about 2 dps due to damage transfer [1].

The 2 MG should give 1.976 dps without crit damage transfer, the laser has, according to smurfy, 2 dps.

With crit damage transfer for the MG this must be in a region of around 4 dps.

Therefore, the hypothesis is that two C-MG are superior in terms of dps than 1 C-SPL due to crit damage transfer and high crit damage.

My test setup: Shadow Cat with 2 C-MG (4% RoF buff) and 1 C-SPL. A dummy Hunchback on river city provided two open legs to test the effective internals dps of both weapons. Targeting computer MKI was equipped.

Rest results:
The time to destroy the internal leg structure of the Hunchback was tested with the C-MG and the C-SPL.Test was conducted 3 times and average times are given.

2x C-MG time to destroy the leg structure: 9.13 ±0.9 seconds
1x C-SPL time to destroy the leg structure: 9.56 ±0.8 seconds

Conclusion:
This test shows that 2 machine guns are not better than one small pulse laser in terms of maximal possible dps.

Cheers
noleet

edit:

I now took into account the -25% crit change of the Hunchie by using a Jagermech as victim.

The time to destroy the internals of the leg was with

2 C-MG: 15.5 s
1 C-SPL: 19.5 s

resulting in a 26% damage boost for the machine gun. still far off the 100% as given per pgi.

with 0.15 damage per bullet, one MG gets 1.5 dps.One clan SPL comes to 2.25 dps.

Values are within 10% accuracy.

UPDATE:
this does not seem to happen on Caustic with an Atlas and Awesome. There we got different results: 2dps per MG as given by PGI.



[1] http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

Edited by noleet, 26 December 2016 - 10:13 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Heat. MGs have no heat. They are not primary weapons, either.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 26 December 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

They are not primary weapons, either.

Hello!

[Snazzy Dragon]

RestosIII, on 26 December 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

Hello!

That doesn't count >:L it could reload

[Spheroid]

There is nothing to crit out in an empty leg. This is nothing new. Even a huge TC7 with a slas makes no difference in TTK. Crits have always been useless. Raw structural damage is all that matters. Forget crits, machine guns do double damage against exposed structure for zero heat.

Edited by Spheroid, 26 December 2016 - 07:51 PM.

[noleet]

Spheroid, on 26 December 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

There is nothing to crit out in an empty leg. This is nothing new. Even a huge TC7 with a slas makes no difference in TTK. Crits have always been useless. Raw structural damage is all that matters.

this is what PGI says but is does not seem to be true apparently [1]:



[1] http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

Edited by noleet, 26 December 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Spheroid, on 26 December 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

There is nothing to crit out in an empty leg. This is nothing new. Even a huge TC7 with a slas makes no difference in TTK. Crits have always been useless. Raw structural damage is all that matters. Forget crits, machine guns do double damage against exposed structure for zero heat.

Actually, you get bonus damage no matter what happens when you roll a Crit

It's how the Ghost Torsi of the 1500HP PTS Atlas K was destroyed in 3 AC20 hits, despite having 64 HP. 2+ Crits (66 damage)
And there shouldn't be ANYTHING to destroy in Ghost Torsi, much like normal (empty) Torsi.


And, there are things to destroy in the Legs, on top of that. 4 things, at 10 HP each



MGs do doubled damage BECAUSE of Crits (and 9x CritDamMult)

[Spheroid]

I suggest for the purpose of testing, rounds of mg ammo be the measurement instead of time. That would provide far better accuracy than TTK in seconds.

A single mg acting upon a stripped Atlas leg at point blank range should be demonstration enough. Everyone will come to the same conclusion that transferred crit damage is insignificant be it from LBX, mg or TC enhanced energy weapons.

Also in regard to shooting an Atlas-K, that mech has an XL yes? Engines can take hits. I do not know if actuators can take criticals and generate ghost damage in that manner.

Edited by Spheroid, 26 December 2016 - 08:12 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Spheroid, on 26 December 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

I suggest for the purpose of testing, rounds of mg ammo be the measurement instead of time. That would provide far better accuracy than TTK in seconds.

A single mg acting upon a stripped Atlas leg at point blank range should be demonstration enough. Everyone will come to the same conclusion that transferred crit damage is insignificant be it from LBX, mg or TC enhanced energy weapons.

Also in regard to shooting an Atlas-K, that mech has an XL yes? Engines can take hits. I do not know if actuators can take criticals and generate ghost damage in that manner.

https://imgur.com/a/M3T7T


No XL
All actuators take Crit damage

All have 10 HP (Engine at 15)



ALL Crits roll Ghost Damage
Even if there's nothing TO Crit



And for the oddity of the PTS, I had 9 Component destructions (to the typical 8 components of a mech, with 1 leg and CT left, total of 11 components, or 8+3)

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 December 2016 - 08:17 PM.

[noleet]

Spheroid, on 26 December 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

I suggest for the purpose of testing, rounds of mg ammo be the measurement instead of time. That would provide far better accuracy than TTK in seconds.

well, I still need to measure the time to measure how long it takes to kill the structure.

I need 202 ±8 rounds of MG ammo to penetrate 24HP. That gives 0.12 damage/bullet.

[noleet]

I now took into account the -25% crit change of the Hunchie by using a Jagermech as victim.

The time to destroy the internals of the leg was with

2 C-MG: 15.5 s
1 C-SPL: 19.5 s

resulting in a 26% damage boost for the machine gun. still far off the 100% as given per pgi.

with 0.15 damage per bullet, one MG gets 1.5 dps.One clan SPL comes to 2.25 dps.

Values are within 10% accuracy.

Edited by noleet, 26 December 2016 - 08:40 PM.

[Mcgral18]

noleet, on 26 December 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

I now took into account the -25% crit change of the Hunchie by using a Jagermech as victim.

The time to destroy the internals of the leg was with

2 C-MG: 15.5 s
1 C-SPL: 19.5 s

resulting in a 26% damage boost for the machine gun. still far off the 100% as given per pgi.

It's a 100% damage boost against structure

Structure is half of your armor, or 33% of the total available HP (in non-stock robots/fully armoured)

[noleet]

Mcgral18, on 26 December 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

It's a 100% damage boost against structure

Structure is half of your armor, or 33% of the total available HP (in non-stock robots/fully armoured)

read my post again:

The time to destroy the internals of the leg was with

2 C-MG: 15.5 s
1 C-SPL: 19.5 s

[Calcite]

Its why i told him about the mist lynx .......

[Spheroid]

I just shot up the Centurion-A left leg on testing grounds after cleanly stripping the armor with two splas. 24HP worth of structure took 148 rounds single tapping. Any ghost damage is insignificant. What I am not sure of is if the damage was changed from .8 to .95 as patch notes indicated inside the testing grounds.

Edited by Spheroid, 26 December 2016 - 08:49 PM.

[RestosIII]

Okay, I was really hoping someone besides me would point this out, but no-one has so far...

"Mashine damage"?

[Mcgral18]

noleet, on 26 December 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

I now took into account the -25% crit change of the Hunchie by using a Jagermech as victim.

The time to destroy the internals of the leg was with

2 C-MG: 15.5 s
1 C-SPL: 19.5 s

resulting in a 26% damage boost for the machine gun. still far off the 100% as given per pgi.

with 0.15 damage per bullet, one MG gets 1.5 dps.One clan SPL comes to 2.25 dps.

Values are within 10% accuracy.

I have to question your methods...I've tested 3 times, all were close to half the time a single SPL took.
I took the Cute Fox with a 10% MG RoF quirk (1.045 DPS)
Your SadCat is closer to 1 DPS, but should not make for those drastic number differences.

12 seconds VS 6 seconds (Cent)
18 seconds VS 10 seconds (Phract)

All close to half

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 December 2016 - 10:07 PM.

[Mcgral18]

And another Cent test, with the SadCat @4% RoF (or .988 DPS)

12 seconds VS 7 seconds

Again close to the double mark, RNGeesus can decide how close it goes

[Pihoqahiak]

RestosIII, on 26 December 2016 - 09:06 PM, said:

Okay, I was really hoping someone besides me would point this out, but no-one has so far...

"Mashine damage"?

Maybe don't be a typical "Murica" douche bag and assume that English is the native language of everyone on the planet.

[RestosIII]

Pihoqahiak, on 27 December 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

Maybe don't be a typical "Murica" douche bag and assume that English is the native language of everyone on the planet.

Psssst. If you didn't get by the stupid "" emoticon, it was supposed to be joking.