57 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Warhawks are on sale now for cBills, so being bored and having too much in-game money, I bought a pair to see what the fuss was about. In the PUG queue, (after re-configuring them), they are doing remarkably well, despite not even being remotely leveled up. Sure, sure - they'll probably get defeated by the Marauder 2C in the group queue, but I have to say they are pretty good from my limited experience; good firepower and mobility with no glaring weakness aside from the somewhat low hardpoints. At least you can aim the arms up to shoot things, so it's not as bad as low torso hardpoints.

The surprising part is that these "terrible" Clan mechs are doing better (for me) than some of my full-leveled IS mechs at comparable tonnage. I'm not saying "Clans are overpowered" since the overall game stats don't point to any huge imbalances there, but it is surprising. Maybe the Warhawk is just a good fit for me, or maybe it will become clearer with more data / games played.

Edited by oldradagast, 30 December 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[Major Tomm]

ERPPCs are too hot in MWO so none of the PPC mechs worked. If the Warhawk got PPC quirks like the AWS-8Q you would see a lot of them.

[Maker L106]

Never owned a warhawk but this might work? (rookie build)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73fcfcf27b6dcd7

Tried to do the most I could within a certain range and keep the DPS as high as possible. The Warhawk strikes me as the kind of assault that once you engage someone at a specific range since you cant poke, your job is to alpha strike then follow that with DPS over the course of the next few seconds. Particularly with this loadout that might be a sustainable idea. 15 seconds on full to overheat but sure you can manage within that threshold to some degree if your trigger discipline is good. To compare that to the typical IIC I see on the battlefield....

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e398c8e721892a similar in spirit but hardly optimal.

Could also go with this : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...80280b32dfb3661

Though that 2nd one is sorta sketchy for the IIC imo.

Either way you can see using smurfy alone the differences in load out seem fairly consistently to favor the IIC. However, I maintain that if the 70+ something degree arc bothers you on the Marauder and the twist arc on the Warhawk is better then the mechs may fill different roles more easily or just be easier on you to pilot depending on what you do.

Just from these two I'd rather take the Warhawk configuration than the two Marauders if weapons were the only determinant factor. However geometry / etc: matter heavily as well, and as is obvious the Warhawks' a brick. All be it a terrifying brick when it blats you in the face with proper loadout.

As a guy who up until several weeks ago didn't have a handle on either the Night Gyr or the MIIC, when I was on the Shadow Cat a lot i'd run into Whales / Warhawks on occasion. They deleted me quite expertly regardless which one it was to the point where I did not realize there were King fat brick and Minime as clan assaults. Was only later when pointed out that two of the mechs share very similar geometry that I noticed the difference. To this day I still have trouble discerning one from another unless a lock confirms their type.

[Zergling]

brroleg, on 30 December 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Biggest disaster with Warhawk - in its canonical loadout - erppc boat. It runs very hot with it(even with chainfire on cold maps it overheats like hell), and does not have enough quirks for ppc projectile speed to show some unique performance in this role. Actually in MWO its canonical loadout is the worst loadout.

I run my Warhawks with quad ER PPC builds. Sure they run hot, but the firepower is worth it.

[JudauAshta]

what build are you guys running??

my quad erppc warhawk doesn't run that hot, quirks make the heat very manageable.
so either you're not getting the quirk bonus or you're spamming like a mad man.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Maker L106, on 30 December 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Never owned a warhawk but this might work? (rookie build)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73fcfcf27b6dcd7

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e398c8e721892a similar in spirit but hardly optimal.

Could also go with this : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...80280b32dfb3661

That warhawk build could work but it doesn't have enough focus; 3 mpls dont do a lot of work on their own, and a single ballistic with only 2 srm launchers won't synergize as well as you might hope for them to.

The first mad-iic build? Hardly optimal? You pretty much nailed the fit, just stuck an AMS on there when you really don't need to. That said, AMS will help the team as a whole.. but it isn't personally needed if you know how to counter LRM play.

That third build is too hot to work, and does not take the jump jets that make the C variant flexible. Drop the large pulses for all mediums, drop ferro, and cram as many heat sinks as you possibly can + 2 or 3 jumpjets.

Edit: my adjusted fits.

Warhawk: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...29c071a23f20a5e

MAD-IIC-A: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f2f380acc47f3d6

MAD-IIC-C: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...71891f6a35d53ea

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 30 December 2016 - 06:15 PM.

[Spheroid]

The Warhawk is not dead. Some people are still leveling Marauders. Mastering seven variants doesn't happen overnight.

[LordKnightFandragon]

My WHK Prime is my by far best performing mech. Warhawk model just needs to be reworked to be more 85t and less 120t. Make the arms mount up higher to.

[Hillslam]

Whether one clan assault squeaks some min/max advantage over the other is immaterial next to the fact that if you are unable pick any clan assault mech and take it into a match, any of them, and wreck face - the problem is you.

[RestosIII]

Hillslam, on 30 December 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Whether one clan assault squeaks some min/max advantage over the other is immaterial next to the fact that if you are unable pick any clan assault mech and take it into a match, any of them, and wreck face - the problem is you.

Poor Mr. Gargles is always forgotten. Poor guy doesn't even get piloted by me, considering his best lore build is the same weaponry as a Stormcrow lore build.

[brroleg]

Zergling, on 30 December 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I run my Warhawks with quad ER PPC builds. Sure they run hot, but the firepower is worth it.

5 ERLL build has more firepower, and easy to score a hit.

[LT. HARDCASE]

The most frustrating issue with the Warhawk, and where the MAD-IIC kills it dead, is ammo placement.

[Zergling]

brroleg, on 31 December 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

5 ERLL build has more firepower, and easy to score a hit.

Clan ER Large Lasers have a long beam duration, and can only fire 2 at a once without ghost heat penalties, effectively forcing it to fire 2, 2, 1 salvos to make use of all its weapons, where the quad ER PPC build can fire salvos of 2 at a time.

Honestly, I'd like to see Clan ER Large Laser ghost heat penalty change so 3 can be fired at once without ghost heat.
Then 3x and 6x ER LL builds might be viable.

Edited by Zergling, 31 December 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Zergling, on 31 December 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Clan ER Large Lasers have a long beam duration, and can only fire 2 at a once without ghost heat penalties, effectively forcing it to fire 2, 2, 1 salvos to make use of all its weapons, where the quad ER PPC build can fire salvos of 2 at a time.

Honestly, I'd like to see Clan ER Large Laser ghost heat penalty change so 3 can be fired at once without ghost heat.
Then 3x and 6x ER LL builds might be viable.

I cannot support increasing cER LLAS ghost heat limit, personally. Sure the burn is long and you can torso twist it, but a 3 + 3 volley of cERLLAS would be absolutely devastating regardless in FW.

[Brain Cancer]

Zieten, on 28 December 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

The MAD IIC also has far better hitboxes than the Warhawk. It's incredibly easy to go below 40% durability without losing a single component on it while the Warhawk is pretty easy to dismember...

MAD IICs tend to suffer compared to Warhawks when exposed to LRM fire. It just can't shield parts effectively when the rain comes in.

[Yellonet]

They weren't very common before, but after the MADIIC they seem all but extinct.

[Chados]

I ran next to a WHK-C all night last night and it seemed to do very well indeed.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 01 January 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

I cannot support increasing cER LLAS ghost heat limit, personally. Sure the burn is long and you can torso twist it, but a 3 + 3 volley of cERLLAS would be absolutely devastating regardless in FW.

Personally, I still wish there were quirks to modify ghost heat for certain mechs.

'staring longingly at the Supernova'