9 replies to this topic

[Guile Votoms]

Game modes outside of Skirmish have objectives that are supposedly crucial.
Capturing collectors in Conquest or sensors in Escort, for example.

However, you are not properly rewarded for doing so.
Actively pursuing these goals has you end up with a subpar match score, mediocre payout and low experience.

By not rewarding these activities properly, you actively encourage players to ignore them,
which leads to awkward matches where one team might still win after getting wiped out.

While one might of course argue that it's the players' fault for ignoring these objectives, it still feels wrong to end up with a lesser reward on a win where one concentrates on the actual objectives, compared to a higher reward on a loss where one only focuses on dealing damage.
It also gives newer players a completely wrong impression of the game right from the start.

I would suggest to add a multiplier to these rewards that becomes progressively better as you keep doing these objectives.


There are, however, other instances where the matter is more complicated.

Players often leave the VIP behind in Escort to rush the attacking team instead.
You are not rewarded for staying with the VIP and can end up with no rewards at all.

You are also not rewarded for actively holding the circle in Domination.


My actual suggestion would be to introduce reward bonuses or multipliers to certain activities based on a chosen gamestyle. This could either be based on your weightclass or it could be a choosable option (maybe within the upcoming skill tree).

For example, Scouts would get better rewards for spotting and hit&run, tanks would be rewarded for taking a lot of damage and shielding their team, Supporters would be rewarded for flanking and saviour kills, breachers for leading a charge and dealing high damage.

These bonus rewards could also apply to more abstract activities such as the commander role, rewarding the commander and their subordinates for giving AND following orders.

That way players could actively commit to a certain gamestyle and be rewarded for doing so,
but above all else the game would better promote tactical play and diversity in playing styles.

What are your opinions?

Edited by Guile Votoms, 28 December 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Tiantara]

- Agree. I have same thought when see rushing ahead light mech and mech who don't do spotting because need more DMG for winning. Lights must have more reward from scout\spotting and less from dmg. Medium - more from cover fire and heavy\assault protection. And so on.

With VIP it's a tactic, make enemy think that VIP go with team, when 2-3 mech protect it in different place. But maybe adding some greater ECM radius to VIP make it more useful. But, that mech can't have any offensive mechanic...

[Tibbnak]

"Every match is just skirmish with side quests."
-PGI, probably

[Guile Votoms]

On a sidenote; I think that damage should not play such a major factor in the match score.
Dealing high amounts of damage is not actually something players should aspire to,
since it usually just means that you spread your attacks too much instead of aiming for precision kills.

This is just another factor that gives new players a wrong impression of how the game is played.

[Hotthedd]

Guile Votoms, on 30 December 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

On a sidenote; I think that damage should not play such a major factor in the match score.
Dealing high amounts of damage is not actually something players should aspire to,
since it usually just means that you spread your attacks too much instead of aiming for precision kills.

This is just another factor that gives new players a wrong impression of how the game is played.

Agreed. Because damage (and kill shots) give the most rewards, and the fact that any other role does not give adequate rewards, every build is centered around either DPS or FLD.
Perhaps their should be a modifier based on 'mech tonnage in regard to damage. Damage/tonnage = damage score. PGI could then stop trying to balance a 35 ton 'mech to be equal to a 100 ton 'mech.

[Insanity09]

Agreed on all I see above.

I've also suggested that some sort of cbill (and xp?) bonus be applied to underrepresented mech classes (usually light and often medium)

Edit: After some additional thought, and I think I see a potential link to problematic behavior.
Not only is damage worth too much, kills are worth too much. Keep kmdd and solo kills more or less the same, lower the kill and kill assist numbers, and as stated above, boost all the relevant objective related stuff AND the win bonuses in general (but large boosts to objective wins).

Basically, the problem is that many folks seem more focused on getting kills and damage (personal numbers) , rather than actually winning the match (team focus).
In a team based game, can we not give more incentives to team based play?

(And I'd like to stress, a win on domination, assault, conquest, or escort offense, etc. where the method is purely by killing the enemy team is NOT an objective win, it is a skirmish style win).

Edited by Insanity09, 09 January 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[Insanity09]

As yet more examples of poor (or nonexistent) rewards for objective based activities, add a few more things to the engineering change order.

Consider...
When you help cap the base on assault you get some account of your effort (very minor) (100 cb per tick, I believe).
If your team wins by way of completely capping an enemy base in assault the team gets a bonus reward, rare as this is.
When you capture a resource flag (flip it to your control) on conquest you get a reward.
Boosting the control bar on conquest gives you a minor reward (again, 100 cb per tick?)
Flipping flags in escort give you rewards both for "neutralizing" and for capture.

So, the new stuff...
Domination: You get absolutely no rewards for time spent in the circle, whether it gets your team a win, which is particularly illogical, but also when that circle time prevents the enemy from counting down.
So, I'd suggest that actually spending time in the circle give some sort of reward, higher for actually causing your own timer to count down, perhaps 200cb per tick, and simply preventing the enemy from counting down give the standard 100 cb per tick. At a minimum!
Further if you actually helped get the counter down, and that is how you won (NOT the enemy team eliminate that is standard), anyone who helped the counter drop should get an extra bonus.

Conquest: taking control of a flag away from the enemy, even if you don't cap the flag yourself, has value and should be rewarded. Similarly, reducing the control bar on a flag should also give a reward.
Taking control away from the enemy should give at least as much as a radar flip in escort. Control bar movement should give the 100cb/tick.

Finally, everything I've listed above should be giving match score. Even if it is only 1 point per tick, that is time spent for your team to win and should be counted. Nobody seems to actually know what does and does not contribute to match score for certain.
Damage related stuff certainly counts (damage, kills, assists, but oddly not damage done to features like turrets in escort/fw or gates/gens in fw).

After many matches watching the score, it seems very clear that numerous objective related activities (many of those above) do NOTHING for your match score/xp/cbill-wise, and that is blatantly wrong.

Edit: As an added note, how would it be if they gave a bonus, match score, xp, and cb, based on quick wins?

Edited by Insanity09, 15 January 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[Insanity09]

More reward changes for consideration.

Team support activities need to be rewarded.

NARC: Any time a target is hit by a NARC, the one who did it should get some modicum of reward (there is a team benefit for NARC'ing an enemy, even if no LRMs are ever used). Any kill while under the effect of NARC should count (not just kills via LRM, which is how is seems to be working). Damage done to a NARC'd target should give a reward, just like TAG (but less)

ECM: The benefits for countering need a boost, and providing ECM cover needs to be rewarded (similar to lance in formation rewards).

AMS: Any time you shoot down missiles intended for one of your teammates, you should be getting some sort of reward. (helping save a teammate's life is good, yes?)

This is a team game. Teamwork gets the win; encouraging teamwork, rewarding it, obviously and tangibly is worthy.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Completely agree. When I see people expecting the light mechs to do the work in domination or conquest, so the lights are occupied with anything but fighting, but they get no reward for actually helping the team win, it is ridiculous.

And when you run around in conquest on a big map like polar, capping like crazy with no enemy in range, and securing the win, you can end up being the guy that does the crucial work for the team without getting over 100 dmg, so your match score is low and the psr says two yellow lines. Should you then be the last mech standing in your team, you know that the dead guys from your team get a bigger reward than you. That's a bit silly, innit?

[Galaxie 500]

Rick T Dangerous, on 07 February 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

Completely agree. When I see people expecting the light mechs to do the work in domination or conquest, so the lights are occupied with anything but fighting, but they get no reward for actually helping the team win, it is ridiculous.

And when you run around in conquest on a big map like polar, capping like crazy with no enemy in range, and securing the win, you can end up being the guy that does the crucial work for the team without getting over 100 dmg, so your match score is low and the psr says two yellow lines. Should you then be the last mech standing in your team, you know that the dead guys from your team get a bigger reward than you. That's a bit silly, innit?

And while you're doing it, you have to listen to at least one or two teammates on VOIP repeatedly saying "come on, lights, why aren't you capping" and you respond "so, I've already capped seven" and no reply. Meanwhile they're nowhere near an objective and locked in a brawl that they won't survive.