78 replies to this topic

[Pyed]

include new UI that makes this stuff obvious, even before joining a faction


Faction immersion, general (not just FW):

• Tag mechs (including variants) for faction. Mech store should have a tab that obviously divides mechs by faction, on by default. Loyalists get discounts on mechs tagged for their faction. Mechs will have tags for multiple factions in many cases.
  
• On new skill trees, give discounts for loyalists in certain areas like electronic warfare and missiles for Liao, low caliber ballistics for Davion, PPCs for Kurita, additional armor/structure for Steiner, this kind of thing (someone who knows the lore better than me should take on the details). Also perhaps give overall xp discount for trees of certain weight classes like assaults for Steiner or just appropriate faction-tagged mechs.
  
• Give heavily discounted prices for faction (not permanent) paint color and pattern unlocks (perhaps for cbills even)--if you leave the faction you lose the color/pattern (mechs using loyalist colors and patterns without having paid for permanent unlock retuned to default colors/patterns). Make this more obvious for new players who don't notice the camo spec UI. Current price permanent unlocks still available.

This should all be discount only--no penalty for not joining a faction or playing merc (nor a penalty to out-of-faction mechs/unlocks which would discourage picking a faction), but an encouragement to play loyalist. There should be no advantage anywhere for not picking a faction.

Changing faction should require skill tree respec--points returned but if unlocks were done with discounts more xp will be required to re-unlock the same nodes.

Penalty for changing faction should be significant but not excessively prohibitive. Perhaps higher penalty for each variant owned tagged for current faction minus bonus for those tagged for new faction--insufficient funds means you may have to sell mechs or grind more to switch faction.


Faction immersion, FW:

• Loyalists have penalty for bringing mechs not tagged for faction. Perhaps restriction to one or two to drop deck, perhaps tonnage penalty.
  
• Mercs do not have this penalty

I don't really play FW so I won't go any further here.

--

tl;dr in many cases, especially with established players, nothing will change. But to some extent, when you see a pilot of a certain faction it becomes somewhat more likely that they'll be using a certain type of mech with a certain type of loadout with a certain color/camo scheme.

[El Bandito]

Where is sultry Natasha Kerensky's wallpaper that I can hang in my mech?

[Robot Kenshiro]

Mechwarrior 5 mercs = immersion
Battletech = Turn based squad immersion
MWO = Mech fps
Guess that wraps it up yea? Or something..

[Wil McCullough]

i want a paint scheme to make my mech a rusty POS.

right now the closest i can get to that is:

[SuperFunkTron]

I have just added a more organized list to the original post in a spoiler. It covers the more binary immersion ideas. I'll try adding the more in depth ideas regarding faction play improvements so those can be easily found and discussed later on. Let me know what you guys think and if there is a way that we can start try to show which of those is a priority desire from the community.

[SlippnGriff]

I'll start with an example, an option that you could check, IF you are running an IS mech in game and you scan a Timber Wolf (prime variant), it will show up as MAD CAT PRIME, the IS name for the clan mech

So basically the bunch of Clan mechs that the IS has their own names for, you can have the option for them show up as such if you are in an Inner sphere mech only. (would not work in a Clan mech as the current names are the actual names for the mechs)

Would have to be an option you would check to activate as I'm sure there's more than enough people who prefer or are used to the current actual names. I just think for those that love the old names of certain Clan mechs that it would be a cool option for them to show up as such.

Again, you would have to have the option enabled, and be running an IS mech for those names to show up on the certain Clan mechs that you scan (pressing [R])
Would not show up in the main menu, only in game drop.

[Psoriatic rash]

Ok, gonna get flamed (as I have on my main each time I brought this up) but here goes. This is FPS battletech MECH sim, this is not MechWarrior (role-playing game within the battletech universe).
The engines are out there (and have been...) to create MechWarrior, requires the ability to be active outside a vehicle as well as including tanks, Aerospace, Drop ships and the ability to pilot, make repairs as a tech for said vehicles, or run the guns on multi-occupant vehicles as a passenger. A grand endeavor, but..would be along the Star Citizen complexity. Can be done but will anyone do so...prob not.

Until someone actually creates a real MechWarrior game we will have the current type of game. Sadly not much you can do for emersion IMHO given the limitations of the game engine utilized. Too much isn't doable or...to expensive for a non-sub game.

Again, just MHO.

Edited by Psoriatic rash, 08 January 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[RestosIII]

Psoriatic rash, on 08 January 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Ok, gonna get flamed (as I have on my main each time I brought this up) but here goes. This is FPS battletech MECH sim, this is not MechWarrior (role-playing game within the battletech universe).
The engines are out there (and have been...) to create MechWarrior, requires the ability to be active outside a vehicle as well as including tanks, Aerospace, Drop ships and the ability to pilot, make repairs as a tech for said vehicles, or run the guns on multi-occupant vehicles as a passenger. A grand endeavor, but..would be along the Star Citizen complexity. Can be done but will anyone do so...prob not.

Until someone actually creates a real MechWarrior game we will have the current type of game. Sadly not much you can do for emersion IMHO given the limitations of the game engine utilized. Too much isn't doable or...to expensive for a not sub game.

Again, just MHO.

Excuse me, but are you actually calling all of the previous Mechwarrior videogame titles "Not Mechwarrior games" because they didn't involve being outside of mech combat?

[Psoriatic rash]

No, the 2 Crescent Hawk (first two comp games) COULD be considered MechWarrior (I feel) as there was action outside the vehicle although there was no ability to pilot anything but mech's if I remember correctly. The others where/are battletech yes, but not MechWarrior as such and watered down battletech without the ability to pilot anything but mechs. Again, my option. Remember MechWarrior is the roleplaying game based off of the battletech universe. Not downing the games, played and enjoyed most but, they are BT, not MW.

https://en.wikipedia...le-playing_game)

Edited by Psoriatic rash, 08 January 2017 - 09:38 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Psoriatic rash, on 08 January 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

No, the 2 Crescent Hawk (first two comp games) COULD be considered MechWarrior (I feel) as there was action outside the vehicle although there was no ability to pilot anything but mech's if I remember correctly. The others where/are battletech yes, but not MechWarrior as such and watered down battletech without the ability to pilot anything but mechs. Again, my option. Remember MechWarrior is the roleplaying game based off of the battletech universe. Not downing the games, played and enjoyed most but, they are BT, not MW.

https://en.wikipedia...le-playing_game)

Wikipedia begs to differ as to what a Mechwarrior game is: https://en.wikipedia...iki/MechWarrior .
I'm sure all those computer games disagree with you as well.

Also, the goal of the thread is to come up with things that can help improve immersion, even if they are minor. I know that there are constraints in regards to what can be done, but that shouldn't stop us from collecting ideas ta may possibly implemented to improve the feel of the game.

Edited by SuperFunkTron, 08 January 2017 - 09:45 PM.

[Psoriatic rash]

I should know better than to try, sorry to bring it up. Enjoy.

[SuperFunkTron]

Psoriatic rash, on 08 January 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

I should know better than to try, sorry to bring it up. Enjoy.

I understand what your point is, but this is not the place for that discussion.

[BattleBunny]

To increase immersion they should remake CW/FW. From scratch.

Quikplay matches will never be really immersive to me, because of the setup: 12 vs 12 playing silly gamemodes that dont make a lot of sense, Salty ppl on chat and voip, matches are over in a heartbeat etc.
as long as objectives mean: stand in a box, shoot a box, or keep a random atlas alive, I dont think ill ever picture myself in a actual mechbattle. Its all very gamey.

The voice acting , especially the clan voice, isnt helping immersion either.

[RestosIII]

BattleBunny, on 09 January 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

The voice acting , especially the clan voice, isnt helping immersion either.

What, you don't like Angry Clan Man trying to enforce his Smoke Jaguar command style on you?

[Bud Crue]

RestosIII, on 09 January 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

What, you don't like Angry Clan Man trying to enforce his Smoke Jaguar command style on you?

I think if they are going to have voice acting they need a decent pool of stock phrases from which an algorithm randomly selects for each predetermined triggering circumstance. As it is, even if you like the voice acting, after you have heard the same single phrase and the exact same time, every time, it gets old really fast. I didn't particularly dislike "passive-aggressive IS guy", but I still shut him off in settings cuz the repetition annoyed me.

[SuperFunkTron]

Bud Crue, on 09 January 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

I think if they are going to have voice acting they need a decent pool of stock phrases from which an algorithm randomly selects for each predetermined triggering circumstance. As it is, even if you like the voice acting, after you have heard the same single phrase and the exact same time, every time, it gets old really fast. I didn't particularly dislike "passive-aggressive IS guy", but I still shut him off in settings cuz the repetition annoyed me.

I really liked one of the suggestions made about having a different voice for each faction (i.e.kurita different than Davion). I think that it is one of the key steps in starting to give life to each of the factions along with providing a history of each mech as well as a faction association to each of the mechs and eventually using that info to vary the availability of each mech to their respective factions in FW. Of course people will be upset at first that they can't use every mech they want, but I believe that the restrictions are what build the character of each faction and creates their identity the options they make available.

[SuperFunkTron]

I finally updated the original post with one of the suggestions of how to make FP more immersive. If you like the ideas, please find my post near the bottom of page 3 in the round table thread and add likes to it so they hopefully notice it.

Post is here: https://mwomercs.com...tv/page__st__40

I also came up with another idea to make FP more dynamic and consequential in each attack window.



This is still very unrefined and open to improvement but would be another way of adding depth, meaning, and significance beyond just changing planet color.
This is a bit of a direct attack on lore, but because MWO is essentially a player driven game with no real story line (beyond the lore that gave us our mechs), I have a proposition on how to make the the IS map an over all concept of Faction Play more compelling: Wipe the history and allow us to create it seasonally! The only context for this that is needed is that the Clans are working to reclaim Terra and control of the IS.

Fundamentals: Organize planets (or regions on a single planet) into small groups of 4 to 8 (half belong to faction A, the rest to the faction B ) and allow battle window to be an attempt to gain as many of those planets in the cluster as possible (clusters should not be permanent groupings but rather dynamic to each battle window). Within each cluster, planets should offer different benefits and key services (insert better ideas here) such as Industry (mech availability/ mech cost), Intel (scouting mode benefits), and Logistics (payouts). Different game modes can even be associated with particular planet types (Domination for Intel planets and conquest for logistics).

Through out the battle window, players are dropped onto the different planets/regions (to be voted on once a 12 man is formed, attacking team decides) in an attempt to take over as many of them as possible while gaining/losing the benefits each of them provide.

Planet/region benefits explained:

Industry planets could be implemented as the loss of availability of a certain mech to drop in (with trial mechs being the default replacement if a player lacks sufficient mechs) or the the allowance of a mech not specific to their faction (see above Factions) without any additional cost.

Intel - very similar to what we have now for scouting, but with any of the great improvement ideas many others have posted here.

Logistics- improves or harms c-bill payouts (or even MC) payouts. Eventually, ammunition availability/costs could be added here if mech maintenance becomes a thing

Which Planet/region is attacked?: This would be determined by a company (or binary vote) once the group is formed. They would be shown the attack progress on each of the planet/region types an given a 10 second window before the voting is started (this will give time for the more informed to make their case or direct other players) and another 10-20 seconds to vote. The voting is implemented so that there is some level of potential gain/loss for the type of planet/region they'd like to potentially gain.

As I said above, this is a very rough idea but provides the basis for making FP significantly more consequential immediately.

[Sigmar Sich]

MWO certainly could have more immersion. What i would like to add to previous suggestion:

1) Faction-specific mechs. I believe there should not be limitations what mech you can take to CW (from developer perspective. As BT geek i would love to see it). Instead, there should be bonuses, if you play with your faction's mech. For example - if you play CW (not QP) with mech, specific to your faction, you get bonus to loyalty points, xp, c-bills. This bonus could varie between the models - for example Zeus and Commando are far more Lyran, than some Thunderbolt or Griffin models, even when both produced in Steiner space. This list will need some work, but i'm sure BT lore geeks (myself included) will be happy to do this research for the game, if devs request this.
Though i will be happy for any implementation of faction mechs, even simple copypaste from tables in BattleTech 10979 - Combat Operations.

2) Lore units. Some of you can remember early concepts for CW, they had two type of units - lore units and merc units. The latter is what we have now in game - free player-driven unit. The former should be not player-driven units, with fixed loyalty to faction and managed by the devs; with lore accurate regiment names like "10th Lyran Guards" or "4th Skye Rangers".
This lore units could be great platform to unite solo players (myself included) into some form of teams, with time.

This suggestions are specific to CW, and i ask you guys very much, please mention this in coming round table. At least ask about fate of lore units, please. I'm still waiting for them, and to move on i need to be sure the idea is dead.

As for gameplay itself.
My dream would be to have gameplay something like Planetside2, with big map, many different facilities, and freedom to go fight wherever you desire. But i understand perfectly this could not happen in this game.
I would love to see more simulator dept to it, but i understand that sometimes making one part of community happy, you make others unhappy. So i am content with what we have now (by "now" i mean this summer when we get new tech). My only wish is - meta should shift from silly min-max loadouts, to something more diverse and canon-friendly.

Only balance suggestion i have is
Rebalancing SHS and DHS - both should have same heat capacity, and DHS have double heat dissipation. And mech's own heatcapacity should be reduced from 30 to 10. So you will have less capacity, but faster cooling - less murder alphas, more sustained fire. But you still can go after alphas, boating SHS (you can take more SHS than DHS, and with equal heat capacity SHS are preferable for increasing mech's heat capacity). in short - SHS will give more heat capacity, if boated, DHS will give better heat dissipation. For balance, SHS could be given superior heat capacity compared to DHS.
One note - heat sinks no longer differ as engine heatsinks, or additional. All have same stats.

[SuperFunkTron]

Sigmar Sich, on 25 January 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

MWO certainly could have more immersion. What i would like to add to previous suggestion:

1) Faction-specific mechs. I believe there should not be limitations what mech you can take to CW (from developer perspective. As BT geek i would love to see it). Instead, there should be bonuses, if you play with your faction's mech. For example - if you play CW (not QP) with mech, specific to your faction, you get bonus to loyalty points, xp, c-bills. This bonus could varie between the models - for example Zeus and Commando are far more Lyran, than some Thunderbolt or Griffin models, even when both produced in Steiner space. This list will need some work, but i'm sure BT lore geeks (myself included) will be happy to do this research for the game, if devs request this.
Though i will be happy for any implementation of faction mechs, even simple copypaste from tables in BattleTech 10979 - Combat Operations.

More people seem to think that rewarding for using faction specific mechs is better than reducing c-bills for non faction mechs. It must be my inner sadist that wants to use negative correctional techniques .

I also just outlined another rough idea regarding quirking factions according to their lore tendencies. Those quirks would only apply to those faction specific mechs and encourage playing to their strengths while accounting for their weaknesses. The mixed bag of factions we get in the current 2 bucket system would also lead to an interesting mix of talents and attempts to cover weaknesses. You can find it here: https://mwomercs.com...75#entry5588775