22 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

What if IS ballistics and Missiles came with a free ton of reloads, that costs no tonnage or slots, and is instead treated as part of the weapon?

Example:

You mount 2 AC/20s on a king crab, and get 14 shots for no cost in slots or tonnage.

You mount 4 SRM6s on a griffin and get 400 rounds in the weapons.

Of course, for weapons like the machine gun, SRM2, and S-SRM-2, LRM5, this might be a little ridiculous.

Proposal: for these smaller weapons, give only a half ton of ammo.

So a 4mg spider only gets 4k rounds; the 3 SRM2 LOLcust would get 150 rounds free.

On top of closing the gap between clan tech and IS tech, it would go a long way to making ballistic urbanmechs people want to run for some reason a lot better, and it does it in a way without nerfing anything or adding over the top quirks to a chassis.

So what would be possible?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eb1faf503739646

Griffin 2N with a STD 295, 86.9/93.4 KPH, 4 SRM4+A, ECM, and 550 rounds for its SRMs; a tanky brawler to boot!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fd2a34f0e5084db

Spider 5K with an XL 265, 143.1/153.8 KPH, 4 MGs with 4k rounds, a large pulse laser, and two jump jets

I could continue, but just think-- you could make that damn LRM awesome a little less boaty and bring backup weapons on it again. You could take that AC10 urbanmech out for a spin and have just enough ammo to last. Dual gauss IS assaults and heavies could save a couple of tons.

The biggest concern I forsee against this would possibly be a dakka mauler, but really-- a 25 point alpha that requires face time, versus a kodiak 2 gauss 2 PPC alpha that only requires a split moment of exposure to get double that alpha? I don't think it's an issue.

Credit to Andi Nagasia for the original idea, but I could not find the original topic proposing this.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 31 December 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[cazidin]

I, personally, don't like the free ammo idea. There are other ways to balance these weapons, like Clan SRMs having wider spread or Clan Autocannons firing in bursts. (Alternatively, running hotter.)

[RestosIII]

I'd be fine with it, despite all the lore ****ery involved. But I also believe IS equipment should get massive HP boosts around the board, so I'm weird.

[Snazzy Dragon]

cazidin, on 31 December 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

I, personally, don't like the free ammo idea. There are other ways to balance these weapons, like Clan SRMs having wider spread or Clan Autocannons firing in bursts. (Alternatively, running hotter.)

If the spread on SRMs gets any wider I'm just going to take LB-X cannons instead. Same desired effect for a little more effective range. Heat is a nonissue on clan SRM and Ballistic boats because of the sheer boat-ability of cDHS.

[cazidin]

RestosIII, on 31 December 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

I'd be fine with it, despite all the lore ****ery involved. But I also believe IS equipment should get massive HP boosts around the board, so I'm weird.

That'd arguably be the most significant and lore friendly way to buff the IS without quirks. Naturally, it'll be ignored by PGI until they see a wild hare out the window one cold winter's day and decide to test it for a single PTS session and either forget it the next, or implement it in a new and exciting way that nobody tested, wanted, or that even makes sense.

Snazzy, what about the alternative? IS SRMs get tighter spread and thus don't need Artemis as much, saving those few tons and critical spaces?

Edited by cazidin, 31 December 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

So.. with the free ammo, if the weapon is crit there is a possibility of an ammo explosion?

We need some of the is Ultra AC to be added. And I actually prefer the more than one pellet/shot.

[RestosIII]

Snazzy Dragon, on 31 December 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

If the spread on SRMs gets any wider I'm just going to take LB-X cannons instead. Same desired effect for a little more effective range. Heat is a nonissue on clan SRM and Ballistic boats because of the sheer boat-ability of cDHS.

Honestly, if I were to try and balance Clan SRMs vs IS SRMs, I'd just go with the same logic as they did with LRMs. Streamfire. Obviously it would be a lot less significant than the LRM streamfire, but it would be just enough to make an SRM4+A still have the ability to spread between 2 components if the target is moving. Now, if there was any chance in hell of ATMs and MRMs getting added, then I might change my mind, since I'd want MRMs to be streamfired.

[Y E O N N E]

Didn't Andi Nagasia already have a thread on this exact idea?

I don't think getting free ammo is necessary for SRMs. Not when cSRMs basically have to run Artemis to behave comparably to isSRMs without.

For ballistics, I would much rather the guns simply be worth their weight and size in performance.

[RestosIII]

Oh, right, while we're on the subject of ammo... Ammo quirks PGI. I've been waiting for a long time here. My lore builds are crying out. I can't manage with only 1 ton of LRM ammo on my Mad Dog. Give me some help here.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 31 December 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

Oh, right, while we're on the subject of ammo... Ammo quirks PGI. I've been waiting for a long time here. My lore builds are crying out. I can't manage with only 1 ton of LRM ammo on my Mad Dog. Give me some help here.

MLX-D

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

MLX-D

UAC2 mist lynx has proven to be even more OP than the PPC mist lynx, right?

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Didn't Andi Nagasia already have a thread on this exact idea?

I don't think getting free ammo is necessary for SRMs. Not when cSRMs basically have to run Artemis to behave comparably to isSRMs without.

For ballistics, I would much rather the guns simply be worth their weight and size in performance.

Yup, but mine has weapon stats and Changes Listed(with Science!)
(Is / Clan, Tonnage / Crit, Balance Concept!(Please Vote)
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 31 December 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

MLX-D

If it got ammo quirks, I'd actually run its lore build. I'm serious. Sadly, as it is, I can't even fully armor it on a lore build even with stripping it down to only a single 1/2 ton of ammo.

Edited by RestosIII, 31 December 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 31 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

If it got ammo quirks, I'd actually run its lore build. I'm serious.

If it got ammo quirks, I'd run it for the lulz with a UAC/2. But it can't even be run for the lulz.

[CanadianCyrus]

I would like to see different ammo options for Non Ultra-ACs. Such as...
http://www.sarna.net.../Armor-Piercing
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Incendiary
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flechette
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Precision (introduced in 3062 so kind of a long shot)

Also for LRM/SRM/MRM...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inferno
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_LRM (Technically a different LRM launcher as opposed to ammo type *eventually gets different ammo types as well*)
http://www.sarna.net...id_(AX)_Warhead (SRM Ammo. Double damage vs FF armor, half vs non Ferro)
http://www.sarna.net...-Charge_Warhead (SRM Ammo. deals armor and internal damage per missile, less ammo/ton, bigger ammo explosions, not compatible with Artemis)
http://www.sarna.net...diation_Missile (LRM ammo that has better homing vs mechs equipped with more electronics suites *ECM, Artemis IV, C3, Active Probe* Intro'd by clans in 3057 and IS adopted in 3065)
http://www.sarna.net...i/Smoke_Warhead (Fills the impact area with smoke, an interesting addition for FW with IS players complaining about Clan dominance at range)

And for Narc Launchers...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Pod (Makes the victim unable to use their electronics)
http://www.sarna.net...i/Explosive_Pod
http://www.sarna.net...oot_and_Sit_Pod (This one is potentially very nasty, if you can sneak around undetected by the victim, you can load him up with explosives and he won't know it till it's too late)


But there's obviously soo much for PGI to do before ammo types become a thing and even then the ammo types will need balancing and implementation considerations as well.

Edit: Changed ECM pod description a bit.

Edited by Funzo, 31 December 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

I didn't can realize clan missiles were in need of balancing against IS missiles. I was also unaware that IS ballistics needed more help. Most clan mechs already have wet cardboard for armor and now you want several hundred points of damage in free ammo? Are you spheroids for real?

Edited by W A R K H A N, 31 December 2016 - 11:36 PM.

[RestosIII]

W A R K H A N, on 31 December 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:

I didn't can realize clan missiles were in need of balancing against IS missiles. I was also unaware that IS ballistics needed more help. Most clan mechs already have wet cardboard for armor and now you want several hundred points of damage in free ammo? Are you spheroids for real?

Did you just call me a spheroid? U wot m8?

[Snazzy Dragon]

W A R K H A N, on 31 December 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:

I didn't can realize clan missiles were in need of balancing against IS missiles. I was also unaware that IS ballistics needed more help. Most clan mechs already have wet cardboard for armor and now you want several hundred points of damage in free ammo? Are you spheroids for real?

This is hilarious because I'm primarily a clan pilot. I'll admit it's because they're much better.

[Kshahdoo]

Lol, IS Ballistic >>>>>> Clan Ballistic, AINEC. The only good Clan ballistic are LBX20 and UAC2.

[Mystere]

RestosIII, on 31 December 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

I'd be fine with it, despite all the lore ****ery involved. But I also believe IS equipment should get massive HP boosts around the board, so I'm weird.

I think lore has been ****ed enough. So no, I do not agree with the OP's suggestion. There are lore-friendly ways to deal with these perceived "imbalances". But I guess eSports demands that lore be ****ed.