47 replies to this topic

[Leone]

@op. You are incorrect. My apologies, I failed to video cap the glorious CW pug match against MJ12 upon Polar Highlands which saw a wave of IS assaults large pulsing their way through lrm fire an 'superior' clan range and cleaning up.

Not a single ECM mech was brought on those two waves. No quarter was asked. None was given.

~Leone.

[Kshahdoo]

El Bandito, on 01 January 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Anyone who complains about LRMs being too OP in Polar, has not graduated from low tier. I played enough of that map to know that the side with more LRMs does not necessarily win. Unless it was pre-planned in group queue, with dedicated Narcers.

If anything, Alpine is worse.

I'm almost tier2 and have 2.5:1 k/d on Medusa in 150+ games (I don't play anything, but random PUGs), I know what I'm talking about. It's hard to get in close even on Viper, on IS heavies or on assaults it's just impossible, as it's impossible to move and hide on them.

Edited by Kshahdoo, 01 January 2017 - 02:03 AM.

[Navy Sixes]

I've lost count of how many times my team has stumbled onto the enemy team in the ditch right next to ours, or they've stumbled onto us. You can get almost right up on someone without them getting LOS. You've got to use those low grottoes to move in, though. Trying to cruise around over the high ground without ECM is suicide.

[MOBAjobg]

No problems fighting on Polar Highlands maps, so far.

[The6thMessenger]

I just did 881 dmg on my Urbanmech there, my build was an LPL + 3x ML + 2x MG R60L. **** LRMs, Laser Vomit is how it's done.

However while i understand that LRMs in Polar Highlands is annoying, and NARC is pretty much a DEATH SENTENCE, you should be blaming the idiotic teams that plays in there first.

The6thMessenger, on 01 January 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

Top. Damage.

[El Bandito]

Kshahdoo, on 01 January 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

I'm almost tier2 and have 2.5:1 k/d on Medusa in 150+ games (I don't play anything, but random PUGs), I know what I'm talking about. It's hard to get in close even on Viper, on IS heavies or on assaults it's just impossible, as it's impossible to move and hide on them.

Hence I said you have not graduated from lower tier, cause you are still complaining about LRMs on Polar. I'd tell you the same thing even if you are T1. And who cares about KDR, since there are many ways to artificially inflate it in solo-q? Your average WLRs in the past seasons are not impressive, which is what matters.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 January 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[MOBAjobg]

One of my most memorable matches is played on Polar Highlands map.

[Lykaon]

Kshahdoo, on 31 December 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

The side with more LRMs always wins. And it's almost impossible to play having short range weapons, like at all.

Polar highlands is a very deceptive map. It looks like a big flat open map but actually it shares a lot of similarity with canyon network.

Essentially Polar is a network of canals or channels through a large plain of snow covered low rolling hills. Moving through these canals and channels allows you to get very close to your opposition,easily within brawling distance of 270m or less.

The problem is nearly everyone in puglandia plays this map incorrectly. It's not a stand off and poke fight map ESPECIALLY IF the enemy has lots of LRMs or loads of long range weapons.

A correct way to play Polar is move through the low lands avoiding presenting a target to the enemy. Approach into contact range.This is typically at around 700m or so when the enemy team sets up a firing line to settle into a match of peek-a-boo.

Let them get cozy and nice and focused with the hidey-pokie fighting typical of Puggies. Take your faster lance TOGETHER to sweep a flank and close through cover to very close brawl ranges of 300m or less. Communicate your possitioning with the larger slower mechs and coordinate a two sided push on the enemy possition.

Once the faster lance strikes it is IMPERATIVE that your slower heavies and assault engage at best speed to brawl ranges.

It is also IMPERATIVE that focus fire is used and it's IMPERATIVE for light mechs to engage enemy LRMs in very close quarters and this MUST happen at the same instant to create the confusion that will allow you to capitalize on the charge's momentum.

Some specific game mode tactics...

Assault and Skirmish fight as I outlined. With one added ellement. If the enemy uses some light mech(s) to cap your base you defend with a rapid response with your two fastest mechs.If you have an LRM carrier mech it may be needed to support the base defense so move accordingly. If the base defense is handled correctly you should have secured a kill lead without losses. The rest of the team should play concervativley until your numbers on the front lines are replenished and of course do not present easy targets for enemy LRMs until your fast units have returned to execute the counter LRM tactics.

Conquest: Your fastest mech goes for the second closest point while your second fastest takes the closest point to your drop zone.

NO OTHER MECHS SHOULD BE CAPPING!

All other mechs converge on theta and execute the tactics I listed above.The two capping mechs take their TWO cap points and RETURN to the main group ASAP. Once a significant kill lead is achieved your fastest two mechs then cap if needed or hunt down the last couple of enemy lights.

Escort: Defense...Send your fastest lance out to try to locate the main concentration of enemy mechs. DO NOT ENGAGE simply report and bait the enemy movements into favorable possitions to attempt the tactics I listed.
A Favorable possition would be to have the enemy approaching from the opposite direction of the VIP's travel route with your main force between the VIP and the enemy and your fast units pushing the flank or rear for the coordinated push.

Escort Attack...Again your fast mechs need to locate the enemy and the general possition and heading of the VIP. Again do not engage but let them see you (keep your range from the enemy as far as possible while being clearly visable (to avoid being Lurmed to death) use captured ECM towers when you can to keep LRM rain down to a drizzle.

It's a rare team that will not have some of the enemy mechs give in to the temptation of chasing the "squirrels" especially when four of them give the illusion of the main force being present.. When they do you have split the enemy forces. Your fast attack group needs to be wary of being engaged by LRMs. If an enemy scout is dispatched gang up on them for as quick a kill as possible to avoid sustaining significant damage from LRMs.Also do not forget to make use of captured ECM towers.

The rest of the team needs to move to engage the enemy from an opposite side from the fast attack group (who should have the enemy facing and battle lines in disarray by now) At this point it's pretty much the same type of fight move through cover from two directions and charge together. Elliminate the majority of the enemy then engage the VIP.

Your opposition does not have the luxary of finding a good spot to hide and poke from they must keep the VIP alive.

Domination:Is super easy to win on Polar. Your fastest units move at best speed to the cap point. They should remain grouped up as a lance. Assemble everyone else just behind cover and out of view of the enemy. When grouped up have your fast lance swing in from a side while the rest of you pour over the top and into very close combat ranges. Again focus targets with your main group and your fast lance should be hunting and killing LRMs from the flank or rear.

[jss78]

Kshahdoo, on 01 January 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

Have you played all of them in PUGs?

Yeah, tier2 pug gamed, plus some FW scouting.

To add to my earlier comment, sometimes you get games where you might have to wait a good few minutes for the short range stage to start.

But I find it quite easy to use the low ground for cover for however long I need to. While there are no tall ridges, it's also a map that's markedly devoid of truly flat terrain, rather it undulates a bit everywhere. I find it easier to use SRM builds in than maps where significant parts are completely flat.

[Kshahdoo]

El Bandito, on 01 January 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

Hence I said you have not graduated from lower tier, cause you are still complaining about LRMs on Polar. I'd tell you the same thing even if you are T1. And who cares about KDR, since there are many ways to artificially inflate it in solo-q? Your average WLRs in the past seasons are not impressive, which is what matters.

There are even more ways to inflate your damage (i.e. match score). LRMs and SRMs give the most deceptive statistics, while k/d is always k/d. You kill more, than you die, it's always a good measure of a skill.

[Accused]

Polar is probably the most balanced map PGI has made.

LRM's versus Brawling? Think about it, if you close the distance with brawling mechs the lrm mechs have no place to run. The trick is closing the distance and whether or not people are willing to push smartly.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Kshahdoo, on 31 December 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

The side with more LRMs always wins. And it's almost impossible to play having short range weapons, like at all.

Watch vor UAVs and Spotter and NARC Mechs
Use Cover and Radar Deprivation Module
Not run and stand in free
Wait of the Time for attack , by supporting fire from mates
not use only Brawl Builds ...own Risk and Fail...

the most fail of Polar is the Teamplay and the Builds ...never go with a Knife to a Shooting

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 January 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

IMO, lrms+spotters is actually a thing. It's team work.

So just how many maps does this tactic work on? I'd say half.

In polar is extremely effective, but that's pretty much the only map it's lopsided.

You have to stay hidden as a team and come out at the right moment, if you are spotted, kill the spotters quickly. This map does drive my fear up but you need to work as a team. I think on this map team work is actually the most crucial part.

I have been lrmed to death on this map more times than any others but asides this, this map gives me the most thrills.

[Kaonicping]

Interestingly some of the most memorable pushes I've been in were on Polar Highlands (and since I was a Tier4/5 PUG for a very long time any kind of coordinated attack is a rare sight). One thing that is special about Polar Highlands in this respect is that instead of everyone banging into each other as they go round the cover to the enemy, you just... walk over the cover. One match I have particularly fond memories of involved an AS7-D-DC (of course). He charged valiantly into the enemy (remarkably with the team actually following) and died a hero; we soon went on to win 12-1.

Also my highest kill game was on Polar (7 kills, 1 assist since a stupid LRMboat prevented me from getting the Ace of Spades title >.<)


A lot of my highest damage games were also on Polar, but I won't post them here. (since they are far from impressive)

I see a few major problems with this map though:

1) If you get NARCed, or if there is a Spider/Arctic Cheetah etc on your back, you will almost certainly be eaten alive by LRMboats

2) Escort feels unbalanced in favour of the defenders quite often; I've had games where we were attacking and were up about 11-3, but we just couldn't find the VIP until the dropship arrived, at which point it was pretty much too late

3) All too often both teams seem to agree to trade at 800m for the first 9 minutes, so it kinda sucks if you're in a brawling build (or my Pirates' Bane, with an optimal range of 120m ).

4) Domination can be quite unpleasant if you are either very fast or very slow; if you are something like a Locust, your team expects you to rush to the circle, often resulting in your death if the enemy finds you while your team decides to set up camp 600m behind. If they have a Locust/Commando and your team is much slower, you can be in serious risk of losing before you even get there...

5) When there is that one guy left and he decides to be an *** and shuts down miles away from everyone, you can look forward to an extremely boring 5 minutes.

Honestly I think they should just cut off some of the outside of the map and make it smaller; that would alleviate most of these problems. Also, they should add that wonderful LRM-roof from Grim Plexus dotted around the map; maybe that would teach people to switch to more serious weapons.

[Vxheous]

Kshahdoo, on 01 January 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

I'm almost tier2 and have 2.5:1 k/d on Medusa in 150+ games (I don't play anything, but random PUGs), I know what I'm talking about. It's hard to get in close even on Viper, on IS heavies or on assaults it's just impossible, as it's impossible to move and hide on them.

I can guarantee I have never LRM'ed on Polar (or LRM'ed in the last 2 years but I digress). There are lots of small hills/trenches that allow you to peek/poke and get close to kill whatever you need to.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 January 2017 - 05:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Kshahdoo, on 01 January 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

There are even more ways to inflate your damage (i.e. match score). LRMs and SRMs give the most deceptive statistics, while k/d is always k/d. You kill more, than you die, it's always a good measure of a skill.

On the contrary, high KDR can be easily gotten through devious means, such as intentionally kill stealing low HP targets by holding back your alpha until the right time, or intentionally hiding in a losing match until the enemy kills the VIP/caps the base/captures 750 points, or intentionally playing it safe until everyone is close to death then take the kills.

Only WLR is far more reliable indication of skill in the Solo-Q, because it requires real participation from you to have positive WLR on average, over hundreds of games.

[jss78]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 01 January 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

IMO, lrms+spotters is actually a thing. It's team work.

So just how many maps does this tactic work on? I'd say half.

In polar is extremely effective, but that's pretty much the only map it's lopsided.

You have to stay hidden as a team and come out at the right moment, if you are spotted, kill the spotters quickly. This map does drive my fear up but you need to work as a team. I think on this map team work is actually the most crucial part.

I have been lrmed to death on this map more times than any others but asides this, this map gives me the most thrills.

One thing I'll say ... I have a clanner account down at Tier 3, where LRM's are quite common. If I bring my ECM+Narc Kit Fox, it really feels like an auto-win at Polar. I guess an organized team would hunt down the NARCer ASAP, but in pug queue, doesn't happen.

Like you say though, it's team work that's being rewarded there, and that's not really a bad thing.

[Livestick]

El Bandito, on 01 January 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

On the contrary, high KDR can be easily gotten through devious means, such as intentionally kill stealing low HP targets by holding back your alpha until the right time, or intentionally hiding in a losing match until the enemy kills the VIP/caps the base/captures 750 points, or intentionally playing it safe until everyone is close to death then take the kills.

Only WLR is far more reliable indication of skill in the Solo-Q, because it requires real participation from you to have positive WLR on average, over hundreds of games.

WLR isn't a very good indication of skill either because of how bad the MM is. If the MM consistently puts you with 11 potatoes against a team of 12 reasonably skilled pilots you WLR isn't going to be stellar, no matter how skilled you are.

[El Bandito]

Livestick, on 01 January 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

WLR isn't a very good indication of skill either because of how bad the MM is. If the MM consistently puts you with 11 potatoes against a team of 12 reasonably skilled pilots you WLR isn't going to be stellar, no matter how skilled you are.

In small samples, yes, it can be skewed. Consistency is key. Over hundreds, and thousands of matches, the player's WLR in solo-q can be pretty accurate indication of his competence.

[yaay]

nearly every single account of 'but you can brawl on polar!' here is reliant on a multi-stage plan of spotting, maneouvreing and pushing that hinges on the mythical perfect PUG group that acts like a drop group.

The lurmers and snipers on the other team just need a spotter and a low hill to poke from.

Edited by yaay, 01 January 2017 - 06:38 AM.