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Can We Do Something About These Premades?


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#241 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:30 AM

View PostxTrident, on 04 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:


On the flip side, how often would your average group of two run into them? I think the ownage a group of two in solo queue is over exaggerated just as much as a group of two in solo queue having no effect on the outcome is under exaggerated.

I really think what would happen is solo queue would fill up with a bunch of two-mans, or maybe one side would have a number of two-mans while the other just has pugs. There are negatives to that situation as well.


The issue is not whether some 2 man would run into a duo like that at all. Its that duos like that would he farming peoplr in the solo queue.



#242 TercieI

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:35 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:


Considering I do a large portion of my drops in the solo queue, I can say that that is not really the case. W/L would probably go down, but its pretty easy to farm damage and kills in the solo queue, even if your team loses.


This is why I level mechs almost exclusively there. Don't have my greedy teammates snapping up so much damage and kills.

Edited by TercieI, 04 January 2017 - 09:35 AM.


#243 Johnny Z

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:36 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:



Considering I do a large portion of my drops in the solo queue, I can say that that is not really the case. W/L would probably go down, but its pretty easy to farm damage and kills in the solo queue, even if your team loses.


I play against guys with 9 kdr and not once have they matched that in solo queue, or maybe once and once only. Group queue stats are worthless like I said already twice in this topic. Again, their stats would fall so fast in regular queue.

#244 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:40 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

How would group queue do without 2 mans?


People wanting to drop as a group of 10 will now have to split up.


View PostJohnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

How would solo queue do with 2 mans allowed in.


A gigantic 30+ page whine fest on the forums is virtually guaranteed ... just like the last time.


View PostSummon3r, on 03 January 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

the solo que should be changed to 2 or 3 man groups and under tbh


Good luck with that happening. See my comment above.


And again ...

PGI, let solos into the group queue. We'll show these 2/3-mans how it's done ... or die horribly while trying. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 04 January 2017 - 09:45 AM.


#245 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

View PostMacClearly, on 03 January 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:


I would like to see that as well. I think I have heard people say that it used to be the case but I am not sure.

Still though I do think that the stats would take a hit because a decent three man could definitely influence a lot of games. Would it also be limited to one group max per side? I'd like to see it but with how low the population is it might be hard.


If a good solo player can single-handedly obliterate at least half the enemy team, imagine how easy it wold be for a good and well-equipped pair or trio to cause a 30+ page whine fest on the forums. Posted Image

#246 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:54 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

I play against guys with 9 kdr and not once have they matched that in solo queue, or maybe once and once only. Group queue stats are worthless like I said already twice in this topic. Again, their stats would fall so fast in regular queue.


You mean they never (or once and only once) get 1 kill and survive the match (this would be a KDR of infinite)? I find that hard to believe.

View PostTercieI, on 04 January 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:


This is why I level mechs almost exclusively there. Don't have my greedy teammates snapping up so much damage and kills.


Yeah same, although I can't stand leveling brawlers in the solo queue. I have patience issues that I need to work out.

#247 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:58 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

Well I guess it is decided then? Give 2 man groups a choice which queue to drop into?


LOL! Nothing was decided.

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Anyone reading this topic its already decided which is the best way and fair.


More LOL!

Edited by Mystere, 04 January 2017 - 10:26 AM.


#248 Johnny Z

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:58 AM

View PostMystere, on 04 January 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:



If a good solo player can single-handedly obliterate at least half the enemy team, imagine how easy it wold be for a good and well-equipped pair or trio to cause a 30+ page whine fest on the forums. Posted Image


The don't single handedly although bravado may say otherwise at times, even from me. :) The one time I got 8 in a single regular queue match, it was the team I had to thank for it, same with other high scores.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there, the topics question is a fair one.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 09:59 AM.


#249 TercieI

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:59 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yeah same, although I can't stand leveling brawlers in the solo queue. I have patience issues that I need to work out.


As do I. Which is one reason I make myself do it.

#250 Ghogiel

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:02 AM

I had a 50KDR in a 100% solo queue alt. It had the best stats on mechstats before it went down by a huge margin. 2x would a force multiplier in solo queue.

#251 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:06 AM

View PostGhogiel, on 04 January 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

I had a 50KDR in a 100% solo queue alt. It had the best stats on mechstats before it went down by a huge margin. 2x would a force multiplier in solo queue.


I think people are seriously underestimating the mayhem a well-oiled tag team can do to the solo queue.

Or maybe that's the secret agenda? Posted Image

#252 Johnny Z

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:08 AM

View PostMystere, on 04 January 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:



I think people are seriously underestimating the mayhem a well-oiled tag team can do to the solo queue.

Or maybe that's the secret agenda? Posted Image


There is an agenda being pushed here alright. Wondering how many know about the details or not. I think I have it figured out.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 10:08 AM.


#253 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:08 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

How will group queue do without 2 mans forced to be in it and instead given a choice? Answer that, or shut up same with the rest of the really bads trying to force 12 mans on everyone.


If solos do not get a choice, why should the much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much smaller 2-man population get one? Posted Image

#254 Mystere

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is an agenda being pushed here alright. Wondering how many know about the details or not. I think I have it figured out.


This?

View PostTWIAFU, on 04 January 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

Your solution is to remove groups from group queue and place them where there are no groups, just a bunch of potatoes. Your tired of getting beat up by teamwork and coordinated groups, options you have and will not use. So your answer is to put your small team, now to work as a team and coordinate, in the kiddie pool where you can now farm seals.


#255 VorpalAnvil

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

View PostQuantumButler, on 04 January 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

Guys, Johnny Z is a well known troll, ignore him and move on.

Frankly I rather enjoy his posts. Everything he types just digs the hole deeper. At this point I'm still not sure if he's a troll, an aspie or some combination therof. I literally LOLed when he stated that he wasn't impressed with the skill level displayed at the MWOWC's. Please Johnny, never stop.

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 04 January 2017 - 10:42 AM.


#256 Johnny Z

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:26 AM

View PostVorpalAnvil, on 04 January 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:


At this point I rather enjoy his posts. Everything he types just digs the hole deeper. At this point I'm still not sure if he's a troll, an aspie or some combination therof. I literally LOLed when he stated that he wasn't impressed with the skill level displayed at the MWOWC's. Please Johnny, never stop.


Hey anyone can watch the WC and see for themselves. :)

WC, mechs in the open yoloing into Kodiaks, priceless.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 10:36 AM.


#257 VorpalAnvil

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:29 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:


You got to remember I have dropship camped competitive teams in clan mechs. Entire teams. I have some idea how strong their 2 mans would be in regular queue.



#258 Moebius Pi

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:33 AM

People should be glad that the game can still support 12 man drops whatsoever given all the shitstorms that have taken place. I'm not going to complain against running against a full queue when I'm not in one; that's just the nature of the beast. Go into a group queue of any kind, expect groups of variable sizes.

Handicapping those from happening arbitrarily because some folks adamantly refuse to get larger groups going is ridiculous (and by that I mean folks that legitimately refuse to, not those who have actual trouble for various reasons).

On the other hand (and this may as well be TLDR: there are a bunch of reasons why getting groups together isn't seamless); Teamspeak is a PoS, archaic program. It really, really is. I prefer to avoid it these days in lieu of Discord but not many have made the transition on MWO (compared to many other online games). Fingers crossed there, but I won't really hold my breath given how ossified (fossilized?) the bulk of the MWO community is regarding adaptation and change.

The In-game Voip is a last ditch with awful sound quality, still Teamspeak based and far, far more often filled with inane blather and toxicity; having to, in majority of the matches, to mute folks and makes me just itch to turn it off entirely despite the possible drawbacks. Bringing up that pane in combat because some shrill wombat is spazzing out on -everyone- (and will continue to do so for months) because their ****** calls were ignored in lieu of someone competent (or just plain ignored because insulting douches in VOIP aren't going to be listened to), gets old.

The faction chat not being all that different doesn't help either with a lack of cleanly integrated group making tools and the twitchy queues. It shouldn't be so clunky to add someone in that pane to a forming group.

The Looking for Group interface is garbage, buggy and underutilized. That sucker really, really needs a proper overhaul, but again, why hold one's breath on it? Most of us know better on when that may ever happen (read, a year from now, never, etc.) which is unfortunate for a team based game; it'd certainly be used more if it was cleaned the **** up.

So, on the one hand I can also understand why folks find it frustrating just to get rolling and communicating and fluidly making groups. It's -****- in this game, flat out. Embarrassingly so for a game so damn teamwork orientated (pinging locking down what you're doing at the time is pretty much a nono). There's no pre-match chat via the VOIP, which would help despite the sound quality etc. issues, and doubling up on TS in effect is just... ugh.

Add to that, that there are some folks who aren't even overly keen on hopping to Unit-owned hubs with their backbiting, drama and overall BS just to get a general group together. And by some, I mean a whoooole lot in actuality. There's a whole lot of noise about inclusiveness, but the signal rarely pans out to be that as frequent as some would chest-thump about. That scares off a nice chunk of casual folks, even competitive folks who have no patience for that too.

Ah well, here's hoping for some cleanup on PGI's end regardless to make it less of a chore, and some folks looking away from TS in lieu of Discord and similar (I know some units already do, but it seems a rare exception).

I can't expect better run/less cliqued/douchey/elitist hubs (human nature and hypocrisy and all that), or a vastly improved TS backend to all fall into place. I can hope that the in-game is improved on (and it should be prioritized ffs along with balance), and some may try discord as a browser (mine works great there, but not as the app) or indie client as a relatively painless alternative.

Edited by Moebius Pi, 04 January 2017 - 10:35 AM.


#259 Kwea

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:53 AM

View PostACrispyTaco, on 03 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

By limiting the number of people you can bring into a Quick Match to 4. That's how you address it. I said that in my original post but you must not have read that part.

Which is why people are asking if you meant that. It's idiotic. Take a game already starved for players and matches and make sure friends can't play as a group.

Like I said, idiotic.

#260 1453 R

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:27 AM

View PostMoebius Pi, on 04 January 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

[space snip]


Thank you, Moebius.

it's good to know that not everyone out there is on Twiafu's bandwagon and can see the difficulties inherent in getting a smoothly running group together. It's great when it happens, but Piranha's in-game tools are dismayingly crude, Teamspeak is a giant-turn-off for a lot of folks, and a majority of units are not even the slightest remote bit as open-minded and inclusive as they say they are.

Some of it is Piranha problems, a lot of the rest is human-nature problems, but that doesn't mean they aren't problems. A few brave souls have attempted to solve some of them with various Pug Lyfe initiatives, but third-party hubs are inherently exclusionary no matter how welcoming the people on them may be simply because if someone was really into downloading a bunch of external programs and specifically searching for/reaching out to a team to play with, they'd find one of those MilSpec teams rampaging in group queue as it is.

That's why folks pushed so hard for in-game VoIP, only for us to get a version that sounds like a fifties-era ham radio in a snowstorm. Nicely immersive BattleTech-y GarboTech, in a sense, but bad for all this TEEM FYTE stuff people keep lashing us over. LFG is a joke, in-game VoIP is distractingly bad and filled with ******* as often as not...is it any wonder people feel like there's no recourse between "random Puglandia bucket of schlubs" and "heavily drilled MilSpec team with hundreds of hours of training behind them"?

I get the whole "you get out what you put in" argument. Yes, I do. I'm not going to claim I'm entitled to victories or whatever, as some idiots keep going on about. I'm saying it's bad for everyone involved that the divide is "wacky-hijinx solo Puglandia queue" and "bring-your-BDUs Groupocalypse Valley-of-Death queue". The MilSpec teams waste their time fighting folks who either won't or can't put in those hundreds of hours. Maybe they have jobs. Maybe they're parents. Maybe they're parents with jobs. Maybe they just have other stuff to do. But for whatever reason they can't do a damn thing against MilSpec guys, they get frustrated and disenfranchised trying, and the MilSpec get bored and irritated (theoretically. According to them) having to spend all their time clubbing seals instead of having Proper Man Fights with other MilSpec teams.

Do a ranked queue if that's what fixes it. Do a weighted group queue emphasizing small group stacks. Do f***ing something. Because I shouldn't have to treat spending a night running MWO with a buddy as a chore I'm occasionally obligated to do despite its onerousness. Any time in which that's a thing that happens is a time in which Piranha has managed to fail in their duties somewhere.





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