145 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Lily from animove, on 04 January 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

se thats where you are just wrong, you need to balance the IS ERML to the CERML, but your current claim wants a CERML to be balanced to the ISML. Thats the reason why new tech would NOT be a sidegrade, thats why the new tech would make you need to comepltely overhaul anything, because now you need to balance the ISML and CERML to the new coming ISERML. and then also readjust all the chassis that you quriked to make work with the ISML and CERML balance base that the new laser just broke.

The isML absolutely needs to be balanced against the cERML, and that has nothing to do with Clans vs. IS. Even within tech trees, we have balance problems. The isSL, for example, is not balanced against the isSPL or isML. It's trash with or without the Clans.

That said, "balance the isML against the cERML" does not mean that the isML needs to useful in the same role as the cERML. What it means is that it needs to be good enough at what some role somewhere that it's worth taking over a Clan 'Mech with cERML.

Basically, all guns are supposed to be evaluated against each other. Which one you choose to take should mostly be a function of 'Mech mass and what battlefield function you want to perform with that 'Mech.

[Marius Evander]

Holy **** the amount of crap in this thread. Dont know if I should rage or cry, but I think ill try to do neither and try to inform.

At top level gameplay (which very few people are) some IS mechs are better than all clan mechs where you can close the distance under 450 (which you can do on 70% of the invasion maps). The problem is theres too many people who play for god complex or cbill farming and not for the team win even at highest levels.


Let me elaborate on "Clan mechs are NOT OP"
At lower skill/organisation levels Clan mechs are Superior, for multiple reasons,
1. They tend to be all around the same speed with preset/prebuilt in engines making staying grouped up and attacking together a lot easier
2. Their stock loadouts and builds are generally better
3. IS mechs come with standard engines when a lot of them need XL engines, people see cheap cbill mechs, they buy them, not realising you have to spend as much, IF NOT MORE than many clan mechs to make them into a good mech.
4. People dont know how to torso twist their XL engines
5. Nerfs to IS mechs JUST before Kodiak and Night Gyr release, particularly the Black Knight, Which got rescaled to be much taller/larger AND its shoulder Quirks were nerfed, efectively killing one of the best Faction play mechs IS had at the time. Also the Jenner Oxide resize making it much easier to kill as well as a few others
(I dont own oxide yes I own Black Knights but haven't used them since shortly after resize patch and quirk change showed they were no longer viable)
6. After Kodiak3 uac's nerf and gause nerf majority of units vs units level mechs are very closed to balanced IN INVASION MODE.
7. Clan Lurms are better (work inside 180) and dont get taken as often because Clans also have the longer range ER Large (that are balanced due to requiring more face time and IS quirks) meaning their is less "lurmers" clan side. (lurms are bad because the damage is too spread and too easily avoided because people are usually lurming from too far away and the opponent can still fire back losing all their armor from the spread damage but no internals.)
8. At "they must be hacking" skill level (2-3 units(about 50 players that regularly play CW level)) IS mechs are better. The problem is most of these players sit clan side the majority of the time because IS skittles are easier to farm due to the above reasons.

Mechs are not the problem, players are.

The mech balance is a lot closer than it looks in FW/CW, clans have better weapons at longer ranges because IS have increased armor/internal health to compensate.

You can not change the number of players on each side 10 clan vs 12 IS will not work because that makes mech balance even worse, thats like going into Counterstrike and telling 1 team you only get the starter terrorist pistol (baretta?) x 12 of you and the other team of 6 players get AK's and Artic Warfare Sniper Rifles. Which side is EVERYONE going to want to play on ?????

The solution is simply educate players with better ingame tooltips / links to community builds / websties and better warnings on your 1st purchases, maybe even bigger cbills Cadet bonus's.

"
Ghogiel, on 03 January 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

You are both wrong.

There was never a solo and group queue split. It was a tagged and tagless split.

The reason why the "group queue" didn't suffer and no one complained is that the vast majority of solo players, like unit players, want to play as mercs, as such those seals were in the "group queue", literally nothing changed because of the "split" so no one complained. At the expence of the "solo" queue, which was empty.

This is because freelancer is complete non starter in terms of rewards and climbing the faction ranks, so no one is going to pick that if they are wanting to play FP at all. Which leaves merc and loyalist. Loyalist, which locks you into one faction and clan or IS, plus at the time before 4.1, that was risky since your faction could be dead and you'd hardly get to play it, and only on defense of some other faction. So people just made units which is a requirement to be a merc.

the irony is most of the players in the "group" queue were playing solo and not grouped.
"


You are more correct than both of them but also forgetting / missing 1 important critical factor, when phase 3 launched they added a BRAND NEW GAME MODE WTF HOLY ****!!!!! so guess what everyone was doing?? Trying out the new game mode, for the 1st 2 weeks, not playing the old game mode, because their was a shiny new toy to play with.....
How long did pgi leave a seperate queue for non unit puglet seals up ? I believe 2 days (48 hours).......... while everyone was busy doing other stuff.

They need to reintroduce split queues, BUT ALSO INCREASE CBILLS FOR LOSING IN UNIT QUEUE, otherwise all the unit players will sync solo drop to farm cbills in soloqueue.

In regards to this, I break 1000 damage in 1 in 20 Quickplay games, I queue solo, because its MUCH easier to farm cbills solo than in grouped quickplay. Grouped Quickplay needs a large cbill boost to get some of the people like me out of solo queue puglet quickplay more often (im sure some will stay in solo just for the god complex feeling, and some will go there occasionally) but a large Cbill boost to Grouped Quickplay would definately help get cbill noobfarmers out of soloquickplay

SOME IS mechs do need better speed/armor balancing is all (some are already OP) and people to teach and people to learn, It is just hard to help people 1 dude wants to be argumentative / troll and disagree with everything you say, thats the nature of the internet =) =(

And that makes me remember another part of the problem, Clan mechs, EVERY Heavy Chassis is decent and most of the assaults.
IS has 1 OP heavy chassis mechs 2 decent chassis mechs and lots of ***** ones, and too many people dont know b4 they buy and buy the ***** ones and maybe 2 good assault chassis. (with multiple good variants)
Mcgral18, on 03 January 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:


The current system (2 Faction) is how the Solo CW queue should have worked in the first place, because of the smaller player pool


It's one of those half arsed: "Hey, we did it, it didn't work!" things, because they did it wrong.


yes soloqueue and group queue should be split again while no "new mode" is being added and everyone isn't split into factions making getting even 12 impossible which was the case in 3.1 . 4.1 has fixed that problem and opens up fixing the other problem and lot more easily / possibly when before it could not work.

IS wins a lot more in INVASION MODE than the quickplay map modes, mainly because in quick play maps clan matched mech speeds and the maps being more open to sniping poking from longer ranges gives clans a bigger advantage. Invasion maps the 2 sides are a lot more balanced than the other modes.
Scouting is not balanced, its IS OP ez wins at same skill level pilots, its like russ said, **** we cant help IS win 12 man, lets give them Scouting ez wins to try to compensate and help the IS in 12 man mode in the process with scanner sweep (radar jam is a joke, all it does is make me check for an enemy ecm mech coz im not used to it yet when enemy has it)

Radar jam also needs to be timed Seperately to go off AFTER the scanner sweep, preferably 30 seconds to 1 minute after.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

5. Nerfs to IS mechs JUST before Kodiak and Night Gyr release, particularly the Black Knight, Which got rescaled to be much taller/larger AND its shoulder Quirks were nerfed, efectively killing one of the best Faction play mechs IS had at the time. Also the Jenner Oxide resize making it much easier to kill as well as a few others
(I dont own oxide yes I own Black Knights but haven't used them since shortly after resize patch and quirk change showed they were no longer viable)

Sorry but you are focusing on the wrong quirks. What made the Black Knight (major quirk update in Dec 2015, MC in Dec 2015, C-Bill in Jan 2016) was not its structural quirks but its offense quirks upgraded in Dec 2015 which were its bread and butter while the structural quirks were simply the icing.

The biggest winner of the Black Knights

7 KNT L
Energy range from 5% to 20%
Laser Duration from 12.5% to 15%
Energy Heat Gen from none to 10%

blackknights in general
CT structural quirk from 0 to 23pts / L/R Torso from 8 to 16pts
Arms from 6 to 12pts, legs from 8 to 16pts.

When it came out for C-bills, that is when it started showing up in force with IS units. The structural quirks helped but it was the offensive quirks that made the difference. Do not forget at the same time PGI had in Nov/Dec increased the IS CW tonnage to 265 before backing it down to 260 tons, which made a huge difference in what one could bring to the CW.

That Dec 2015 patch also saw the Blackjack's offensive power increased but it was the mech whose structural quirks were INSANE. It had more structural quirks than the Black Knight.

BJ 1X
Energy heat gen from ML 10% + energy heat gen 10% to just energy gen 15%
Energy cooldown overall dropped from energy cooldown 12.5% to Energy cooldown 10%
Energy Range from combo ML range 10% + energy range 10% to Energy range 20%
Duration from ML 10% + laser 10% to laser duration 15%

L/R Torso +11 to add CT +28 / L-R Torso +11 to L-R Torso +22 / L-R Arm +24 and L-R Leg +22

Simply pointing out that what really made the Black Knight was its offensive power, whereas for the BJ, it was both its offensive and defensive makeup, but like any quirks, that eventually was stripped away.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 January 2017 - 07:35 PM.

[Random Carnage]

Hmm. Contest the guys logic if you will, but I didn't see a single post from him(?) that was disrespectful - and the amount of effort put in to attempt to justify their position was admirable. You have to admit, he put up with a savaging yet never resorted to personal attacks - unlike may respondents here.

[DovisKhan]

Random Carnage, on 05 January 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

Hmm. Contest the guys logic if you will, but I didn't see a single post from him(?) that was disrespectful - and the amount of effort put in to attempt to justify their position was admirable. You have to admit, he put up with a savaging yet never resorted to personal attacks - unlike may respondents here.

That is actually true, his points are always well made and civil, credit where credit is due

[I_AM_ZUUL]

People saying Clans are not OP....

[Lykaon]

brroleg, on 03 January 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

In Lore yes, but in MWO actually IS tech has advantage.

Pure numbers speaking:

here is exact stats http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

C-ER LRG LASER
HPS (heat per second): 2.11

ER LARGE LASER
HPS (heat per second): 1.78

2.11-1.78 = 0.33

DOUBLE HEAT SINK
Heat dissipation rate (both for IS and Clan): 0.15

0.33 / 0.15 = 2.2

Clan ERLL needs 2.2 more heatsinks than IS ERLL

Clane ERLL weight 4t
Double heatsink weight 1t

4+1+1 = 6 ton

6 ton (and 5 crit slots) is true weight of C-ERLL, while IS ERLL weight is 5 tons (and 2 crit slots)


BUT TEH CLAN RANGE

Every IS mech with more than 2 energy hardpoints has +10% energy range quirk, which makes IS ERLL same range as C-ERLL

BUT TEH CLAN TC

Sure. Lets count for two C-ERLL build.
Each C-ERLL needs additional 2 double heatsinks to be equal to is tech in heat management so:

2 * Clan ERLL + 4 Double Heatsinks + 1TC = 13 ton and 11 crit slots for 1539 range

Now lets count for two IS ERLL build

2 * IS ERLL = 10 ton and 4 crit slots for 1485 (cause +10% quirk on every mech) range

So clan pays additional 3 tons and 7 crit slots for 54m range advantage.

BUT TEH CLAN DAMAGE

Works only against potato IS players, cause even partly sane IS player will be able to avoid/spread those Clan lightsabers damage

Let's begine with actually admitting the Clan ER Lrg laser and the i.S. ER Lrg laser are probably the two closest in performance.

Anyone can hand pick an example. But,let's go ahead an pick this one apart.

The clan ER lrg laser as you stated needs 2.2 more DHS to meet I.S. cooling. Well it is one ton lighter and half the crit slots.
In addition the clan ER lrg laser is paired with additional weight saving technologies that are twice as efficent in critical space costs to I.S. equivilents.

If we had a clan 75 ton mech that uses an XL engine,Endo Steel,Ferro Fibrious Armor and let's put in three external Double heatsinks. Thar would total 24 crit slots used.

An Inner Sphere mech attempting the same would use 43 crit slots.

Battlemechs have 47-51 slots with an average mech having 48 slots.

Clan mechs will have around 24 open crit slots for weapon payloads

Inner Sphere mechs will never do the same because 4 or 5 crit slots for weapons is insufficent on anything but the smallest mechs.

So if we want to illistrate the big picture of how clantech performs ON A WHOLE not hand picked examples of a piece of tech vs a piece of tech. We can build a 75 ton clan mech utilizing ER Lrg Lagers (don't know why we are using the ER Lrg Laser when we have clan lrg pulse lasers but...)

Orion IIcb

360Xl engine
Endo
Ferro
27 DHS
4 ER Lrg Lasers
TC mk1 or CAP
Max armor

Top speed of 83.6 and a cooling efficency of 59%

An I.S.Maraud 5D attempting the same just can't it's full with only 16 of the 27 DHS the clan mech has. So time to make some cuts...

We cut the ferro out. This gets us 14 crit slots back but also cost us around 1.5 tons

So let's put in some more heats sinks to get to 27 like the clan mech has...I can get to 21 before running out of space.

I now have 6 fewer DHS a full mech and around 2 tons floating around that I have no crit slots to use it on.

So now we have two mechs with as close as possible identical loadouts.

The clan mech gets 6 more DHS and a targeting computer mk1 or CAP in addtion to the (admittedly terrible) 4 ER lrg lasers

The I.S. mech gets a suicide box XL engine and -10% energy heat generation quirk. Torso turn 15% torso Yaw 20%

Both mechs have IDENTICAL structure quirks.

So by your own math the clan Er Lrg Laser needs 2.2 more DHS per weapon. As we can see this is not as large of a hurdle as imagined since the Clans can easily fit more heatsinks due to lighter and more compact equipment.

3 out of the 4 clan lasers are fuly compensated for by adding more dhs that fit easily. The clan mech holds 6 more DHS with each laser need 2.2 more DHS we have a deficet of 2 heat.

So the finished totals are

The I.S. mech gains a 2 heat advantage 15% turn and 20% torso yaw but has the crippling defect of the I.S. XL.

The clan mech has the Active probe or Targeting comp Mk1 added damage added range on the ER lrg lasers the more durable XL with the disadvantage of a .25 sec. longer laser burn.

Does this look like the ER Lrg Laser mechs are fairly ballanced? I would go with a fairly strong advantage going to the clan Mech due to the XL and added support electronics.

Edited by Lykaon, 05 January 2017 - 03:24 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

The isML absolutely needs to be balanced against the cERML, and that has nothing to do with Clans vs. IS. Even within tech trees, we have balance problems. The isSL, for example, is not balanced against the isSPL or isML. It's trash with or without the Clans.

That said, "balance the isML against the cERML" does not mean that the isML needs to useful in the same role as the cERML. What it means is that it needs to be good enough at what some role somewhere that it's worth taking over a Clan 'Mech with cERML.

Basically, all guns are supposed to be evaluated against each other. Which one you choose to take should mostly be a function of 'Mech mass and what battlefield function you want to perform with that 'Mech.

the is ML is balanced, it is so much more heat efficient, just at the sacrifice of some range. The entire amount of damage/heta you get out of it is estremely good, the issue is poeple try to aheive with it what cerml should do and thats why they fail using them correctly. I would totally run a 12ML NVA. but I guess I have to wait until PGI decides to bring the Blackhawk KU to enjoy such a gun setp.

the ML has its very own and very proper role in this game and does it well in it.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 January 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

the ML has its very own and very proper role in this game and does it well in it.

??? Uho i have some energy hps left and only a couple of crits and tonnage remaining.

...however you are right about weapon role - when you can exchange any weapon system for a different one we should reduce the number of available weapons and don't ask for more.

So whats the role of the ML - how does it differ with the SL or the LL?

(You might realize that its a false asumption that smaller laser should have shorter beams - they should have a much worser dmg per tick rating)

Important is that we need to stop TT from ruing changes that make sense (FU 20,10,5,2 numbers)

[Jehofi]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

the is ML is balanced, it is so much more heat efficient, just at the sacrifice of some range. The entire amount of damage/heta you get out of it is estremely good, the issue is poeple try to aheive with it what cerml should do and thats why they fail using them correctly.

I fear you will have to explain that to me. In detail please so that i can understand what you mean.

isML CERML
DPS 1.28 1.69
DPH 1.25 1.17
Range 270 405

The isML is 6% more heat efficient than the CERML.
The isML has 66.66% of the range the CERML has.

[Lily from animove]

Jehofi, on 05 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

I fear you will have to explain that to me. In detail please so that i can understand what you mean.

isML CERML
DPS 1.28 1.69
DPH 1.25 1.17
Range 270 405

The isML is 6% more heat efficient than the CERML.
The isML has 66.66% of the range the CERML has.

it's actually 7,14% more heatefficient, and it's burntime is way better (only 75% of the cerml), it burns similar to the cmpl with less range yet at half the tonnage of it. Thats is a load of an important difference. And at this point you also ignore synergy effects with most chassis that make the differences even less. yet even without the quirks its a very fine weapon system of short burn duration, while 1-2 seconds in a game like mwo is still ages where I can make a lot of incoming damage roll to other sections which decreases the efficiency of cerml even more because they apply their damage (and waste heat) on unimportant sections.

You need to lern to urilize your advantages. and the advantare is that the ML performs like a mix between the CERSML and CMPL which makes it a lot better in multiple situations, CERML are extremely unsuited to kill any light mechs, while the ML of the IS can do that very well. yet also cna be used at some good range. It's the best allround laser you can get.

Karl Streiger, on 05 January 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

??? Uho i have some energy hps left and only a couple of crits and tonnage remaining.

...however you are right about weapon role - when you can exchange any weapon system for a different one we should reduce the number of available weapons and don't ask for more.

So whats the role of the ML - how does it differ with the SL or the LL?

(You might realize that its a false asumption that smaller laser should have shorter beams - they should have a much worser dmg per tick rating)

Important is that we need to stop TT from ruing changes that make sense (FU 20,10,5,2 numbers)

well the issue with the burntimes PGI did, exists so thats a fac we have to accept. in MW3 that didn't exist they were basically PP damage, so we can be glad this doesn't applies ot mwo. Ther eis just in this game human reaction a factor, and 1+sec burntime is actually not good anymore becasue this is where everyone twisting can distribute damage, thats why the CERLL is basically an unused system, no one has time to stare at an opponent so long, and no proper opponents lets you hit one section so long. Thats why burntimes on iSLL CERLL and CERML aren't that great. Thats also why ins couting the CERML hs nearly no relevance, everyone uses spl or CERSL. as the CERML runs too hot and burns too long to deal with lighter and nimbe mechs. unfortuntely the more PGI buffs the is with tonnage, the better will the CERML work, since you will see more easier to hit fatties on iS side that can'tclose distance welll enough. The IS is hardly using the counterniche to the cerml.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 January 2017 - 07:48 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

the is ML is balanced, it is so much more heat efficient, just at the sacrifice of some range. The entire amount of damage/heta you get out of it is estremely good, the issue is poeple try to aheive with it what cerml should do and thats why they fail using them correctly. I would totally run a 12ML NVA. but I guess I have to wait until PGI decides to bring the Blackhawk KU to enjoy such a gun setp.

the ML has its very own and very proper role in this game and does it well in it.

No, it is not even close to "extremely good" and it isn't balanced. Why? Because you can always, every time, boat enough Clan DHS to mitigate the extra heat on the cERML. The whole point of the heat is to soft cap your output in exchange for the greater range, but the concept can't work when you can bring enough sinks such that you get the same heat efficiency as the IS 'Mech dealing the same damage at shorter distances. Also, unless you have is isLPL to inflate your damage rate, the cERML is also dealing considerably more damage per second of duration.

Even worse, the cERSL does the same damage for 25% less heat and a 25% shorter cool-down for 50% of the weight and the only penalty you pay is a piddly 70 meters and a tenth of a second longer burn. And you can bring 12+ of these things on a wide variety of 'Mechs. Even the KU is not going to upset the Clan Nova, at best it would match it...a 60 tonner to match a 50 tonner. This, by you, is balanced?

The isML gets clobbered within its own natural range bracket by cERSL and in its quirked range bracket by cMPL and cERML.

[xe N on]

People still compare the C-ERML with ML? Why? Because both have the word medium laser in it??

It is IS-LL vs. C-CERML

5 ton vs. 1 tons
450 range vs 405 range

Than you need to compare the damage/heat/second (DpHpS)
That is: 0,30 vs. 0,28

So, the DpHpS is slightly better for the IS large laser. It has slightly more range (45m). The burn duration is minimal lower (0.15 secs) However, it weight 5 times as the C-ERML (so you can mount 4 addition heat sink for the same weight), takes 2 slots and has a ghost heat limit of 3, limiting the alpha to 27 while 42 for the C-ERML.

In my opinion, the C-ERML is better than the IS-LL. It allows lighter clan mechs to field high alpha strikes combined with moderate dps. Clan mechs can equip enough DHS to compensate for the heat because they offer much more free slots and 2 slot DHS compared to IS mechs.

Edited by xe N on, 05 January 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[AppleseeN]

CLAMS!!! Will be always OP if you gonna overally ignore he whole conception and anchor your attentions to the stats only.
If you are waching over the horizon... you gonna easely walk through the field full with Clans, Kittens and Roses with a face full of happiness and smiling listening to that:

[Jackal Noble]

Lykaon, on 05 January 2017 - 03:20 AM, said:

Let's begine with actually admitting the Clan ER Lrg laser and the i.S. ER Lrg laser are probably the two closest in performance.

Anyone can hand pick an example. But,let's go ahead an pick this one apart.

The clan ER lrg laser as you stated needs 2.2 more DHS to meet I.S. cooling. Well it is one ton lighter and half the crit slots.
In addition the clan ER lrg laser is paired with additional weight saving technologies that are twice as efficent in critical space costs to I.S. equivilents.

If we had a clan 75 ton mech that uses an XL engine,Endo Steel,Ferro Fibrious Armor and let's put in three external Double heatsinks. Thar would total 24 crit slots used.

An Inner Sphere mech attempting the same would use 43 crit slots.

Battlemechs have 47-51 slots with an average mech having 48 slots.

Clan mechs will have around 24 open crit slots for weapon payloads

Inner Sphere mechs will never do the same because 4 or 5 crit slots for weapons is insufficent on anything but the smallest mechs.

So if we want to illistrate the big picture of how clantech performs ON A WHOLE not hand picked examples of a piece of tech vs a piece of tech. We can build a 75 ton clan mech utilizing ER Lrg Lagers (don't know why we are using the ER Lrg Laser when we have clan lrg pulse lasers but...)

Orion IIcb

360Xl engine
Endo
Ferro
27 DHS
4 ER Lrg Lasers
TC mk1 or CAP
Max armor

Top speed of 83.6 and a cooling efficency of 59%

An I.S.Maraud 5D attempting the same just can't it's full with only 16 of the 27 DHS the clan mech has. So time to make some cuts...

We cut the ferro out. This gets us 14 crit slots back but also cost us around 1.5 tons

So let's put in some more heats sinks to get to 27 like the clan mech has...I can get to 21 before running out of space.

I now have 6 fewer DHS a full mech and around 2 tons floating around that I have no crit slots to use it on.

So now we have two mechs with as close as possible identical loadouts.

The clan mech gets 6 more DHS and a targeting computer mk1 or CAP in addtion to the (admittedly terrible) 4 ER lrg lasers

The I.S. mech gets a suicide box XL engine and -10% energy heat generation quirk. Torso turn 15% torso Yaw 20%

Both mechs have IDENTICAL structure quirks.

So by your own math the clan Er Lrg Laser needs 2.2 more DHS per weapon. As we can see this is not as large of a hurdle as imagined since the Clans can easily fit more heatsinks due to lighter and more compact equipment.

3 out of the 4 clan lasers are fuly compensated for by adding more dhs that fit easily. The clan mech holds 6 more DHS with each laser need 2.2 more DHS we have a deficet of 2 heat.

So the finished totals are

The I.S. mech gains a 2 heat advantage 15% turn and 20% torso yaw but has the crippling defect of the I.S. XL.

The clan mech has the Active probe or Targeting comp Mk1 added damage added range on the ER lrg lasers the more durable XL with the disadvantage of a .25 sec. longer laser burn.

Does this look like the ER Lrg Laser mechs are fairly ballanced? I would go with a fairly strong advantage going to the clan Mech due to the XL and added support electronics.

I mean if you are going about this in a fair and unbiased way, which you came close, you need to factor in the the fact that you can fire 3 larges at a time vs 2.
also - 40 heat vs 28.8 heat - that alone makes a huge difference.
1.25 duration vs 1.5 snoozefest
I agree with you in the regard that the er larges are pretty close in regards that they both tend to be passed over in favor of other weapon systems. But the C-ER Large is by and far the worst weapon in the game. I personally despise pilots that run an all ER Laser build. Also builds like that say one thing to me - "I'm here to cower, and not use my armor"

One thing to consider folks, as admirable as the pipe dream of total balance is, some things can't be made the same yet different without potentially losing out on the flavor of variability.

Edited by JackalBeast, 05 January 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Can't believe I'm getting sucked into this;
also 1.1 damage/heat on C-ERLL 1.5 damage/heat IS ERLL.

[L3mming2]

Tarogato, on 04 January 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

I love how much you ignore the fact that nobody that plays competitively uses IS ERPPCs and everybody uses cERPPCs. When your maths fly completely in the face of and contradict the meta, question your maths. Because there are players who are better than you, and you should trust they have a good reason for choosing what they play, even if they don't fully understand it either.

if u look at these 2 u will indeed get why..
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dffee7919ce6aba
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...054be58da83293b

[Jackal Noble]

L3mming2, on 05 January 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

if u look at these 2 u will indeed get why..
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dffee7919ce6aba
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...054be58da83293b

neato. I've been wanting to do a crazy std hs build for a while

[Tarogato]

JackalBeast, on 05 January 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

neato. I've been wanting to do a crazy std hs build for a while

[L3mming2]

JackalBeast, on 05 January 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

neato. I've been wanting to do a crazy std hs build for a while

try this one
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...697a034533465c9

i ran it on the energy draw PTS and it worked quite wel XD