258 replies to this topic

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

This might be off-topic but I would actually like to see 2 buckets instead of 1 in faction play, just as quick play has.
Only issue are units that kinda exploit the system to sync drop into the solo FP queue and don't use the group FP one.
But yeah this way solo people have their place and group people has their place as well in FP.

[Psycho Cop]

Lately I have had a couple of falling outs towards (solo) players on the team running LRMs in FP. Especially bringing these mechs to objective based modes like Conquest or Domination. Personally I don't hate these players for wanting to play their preferred weapon. However if you don't stay close to the team, nor share your armor (while being in a LRM assault), nor get your own locks and demand for others to give them locks, than you will ruffle my feathers.
Due to the high level of gameplay, and generally speaking higher firepower builds players take, it's impossible to keep facetiming your enemies for over 1 or 2 seconds. So keeping locks will be practically suicide for the ones even attempting.
Furthermore running players running LRM builds easily forget that they also have an obligation to play the objective. That is securing or defending cap points, getting into favorable positions for the team, and push into the enemy team when needed.

For that I'd recommend only bringing one LRM mech maximum per dropdeck. And try to use as little tonnage for it as possible (a heavy medium or a lighter heavy). It's just not acceptable to let the rest of the team do all the heavy lifting while you stay out of harms way...
If you share in the heavy lifting yourself I'd gladly compliment you on being a solid FP player.

Edited by Psycho Cop, 24 January 2017 - 06:46 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

LRMs are the Haduken fireball of MWO. Yeah you can win against the CPU on easy by spamming nothing but fireballs. However, It is hoped that along the way that you move on learning new moves and combos.

LRMs are indeed an entire of series of weapons from battletech so its kind of hard to not include them for the sake of including them. However, LRMs will only get you so far and then they will start letting you down. They are a feast or famine weapon which means you can often find yourself in a situation of having brought many many tons of mech to CW that will do absolutely **** all.

The way MWO works, it sort of means that you need to pretty much abandone the weapon. Bracket builds with a few LRMs and other weapons are terrible and specialized LRM mechs are feast or famine.

So yeah that pretty much covers it....

[justcallme A S H]

I used LRMs today cause I was bored.

Did over 1000dmg to a 8man with mass HBRs, 4kills and 8KMDD's... All from one LRM boat. LUURRRMMM like a BOSS.


I still feel dirty, but it was funny.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 January 2017 - 12:48 AM.

[Appogee]

I dropped with a team yesterday where 10 players bought 3 waves of LRM boats.

They stood at the gates spamming LRMs into the scenery. Our enemies were hopeless, but they won 48-24 because there were only a couple of us on my side who brought competitive (non-LRM) Mechs.

It was one of the most frustrating things I have ever experienced in MWO. I logged out of MWO after that match and did something enjoyable for the rest of the night.

It's crap like this that will ultimately drive experienced players away from MWO forever. Even diehard $2K customers like me who have loved the franchise all their life.

Edited by Appogee, 25 January 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[Kmieciu]

DrunkKodiak, on 18 January 2017 - 04:10 AM, said:

I like LRM's because I'm primarily a 100 tonner so i need a weapon that i can spend a few tons on to deal damage before i get my slow mech into combat

Instead of taking LRMs, install a bigger engine to get into the fight faster.

Edited by Kmieciu, 25 January 2017 - 03:07 AM.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Shame on you guys.
Did'nt know what you see in your fellow players.
They are not your Armour-Add-On so that you can have fun your way.
Or do you see them as a platet wench who is destinated do be jumped on by everybody(s Alpha).
Ever thought that they are human beeings made of flesh an blood and personel wishes and hopes and needs?
I think not.
Some of you should take a good look in the mirror, when your are looking for real egomaniacs.
Be not surprised if you got to vomit afterwards.

Edited by Hagen von Tronje, 25 January 2017 - 03:35 AM.

[A Baoa Qu]

It is the lurmer who fires at maximum range and/or at every target which pops up for two seconds that is the problem.

When I bring lurms to the fight, I make sure that most of the time I fire at ranges where the enemy does not have time to dodge and I have a visual line of sight as well. I move with the rest of the team so I see when they have solid locks on the enemy so I know my shots won't be wasted.

Alternating between group fire and chain fire is a necessary skill of the lurmer as well. My favourite Assault LRM boat is a Cyclops with three LRM15's, and it can fire all the tubes at once two times in a row without overheating, even when I provide additional dmg with some medium lasers. This means that the two punches of lurms cause 90 points of dmg, and the time between the punches is further shortened with a cooldown module. With the dmg from the medium lasers added in, it is easy to get a kill. And then another, and often a couple more after that. Getting about four kills with a single mech might be enough to tip the balance in favour of your team, and you still have three more mechs in that match... Of course the dmg from the lurms gets spread out but that is why you move with your group, so that others will finish your target if you don't.

I suffer from ping spikes so LRM's often work for me better than ballistics and SRM's. When I bring LRM's into FW as an IS pilot I usually contribute more than with any other loadout. On the Clan side I tend to do better with pulse laser boats though.

Edited by A Baoa Qu, 25 January 2017 - 04:22 AM.

[Lolo van Trollinger]

Carl Vickers, on 17 January 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

A troll lurmer with 3 posts to his name.

Hey, Carl, I take that personal, since i do NOT bring LRMs to the Map. Please refrain from saying LRM Troll. Even Trollinger wont use that 5h1t. unless very bored, upset and in a locust 1-V with a TAG.

justcallme A S H, on 25 January 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

I used LRMs today cause I was bored.

Did over 1000dmg to a 8man with mass HBRs, 4kills and 8KMDD's... All from one LRM boat. LUURRRMMM like a BOSS.


I still feel dirty, but it was funny.

Thats what it should look like... but seldom does.

If you bring LRM i expect you to solo deal at least 50% of your shots in damage. without a spotter, at 200m fight range. in there, tagging and using med lasers, too. otherwise keep that thing at home, i do more damage in an Urbanmech (and i mean it) then most lurmers i see in low tiers.

Edited by Lolo van Trollinger, 25 January 2017 - 04:41 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Hagen von Tronje, on 25 January 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Shame on you guys.
Did'nt know what you see in your fellow players.
They are not your Armour-Add-On so that you can have fun your way.
Or do you see them as a platet wench who is destinated do be jumped on by everybody(s Alpha).
Ever thought that they are human beeings made of flesh an blood and personel wishes and hopes and needs?
I think not.
Some of you should take a good look in the mirror, when your are looking for real egomaniacs.
Be not surprised if you got to vomit afterwards.

The funny thing about what you wrote is that if you read it in one frame of mind its bashing the militant anti-lurm camp. If you read it the other way its bashing the "I don't care 'bout teamwork I'll bring what I want" camp....




Well played.

[MovinTarget]

Lolo van Trollinger, on 25 January 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

upset and in a locust 1-V with a TAG

If you brought TAG, thats more than what many lurmers bring at 3-4 times you weight...

Sounds like teamwork at play...

[Midnight Hamster]

not everyone enjoys the "hide behind a rock w/a ppc" gameplay... It isnt hard to play w lrms and you dont need too much of a steady hand...however I see it alot more enjoyable then above mentioned... lrms can be used to great effect other then dmg as your forcing the other team players to cover (yes you move w/team) however "snipers" are imo the problem hiding so far in back they provide no target info to the team and fewer targets for the enemy allowing for more focused fire on others...I call it hide-n-die as sniper hides and watches team die...you see who it is last one alive =s

[Carl Vickers]

Lolo van Trollinger, on 25 January 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

Hey, Carl, I take that personal, since i do NOT bring LRMs to the Map. Please refrain from saying LRM Troll. Even Trollinger wont use that 5h1t. unless very bored, upset and in a locust 1-V with a TAG.

Lol, well played sir.

[MovinTarget]

This thread is pointless. If you don't want your teammates using certain weapons or playstyles, the only way to ensure this is to group up with likeminded individuals.

Otherwise, regardless of whether you are right or wrong in your opinions you have ZERO say in what they bring or do. As frustrating as it sounds you know its true.

Pick your fate or it will be picked for you.

Having said that, lurms are not ideal for ***SOLO*** play, but i am pretty sure i am preaching to half the audience while the other half will never agree.

Edited by MovinTarget, 25 January 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

justcallme A S H, on 25 January 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

I used LRMs today cause I was bored.

Did over 1000dmg to a 8man with mass HBRs, 4kills and 8KMDD's... All from one LRM boat. LUURRRMMM like a BOSS.


I still feel dirty, but it was funny.

I went with the Catapult A1 yesterday 6 LRM5 for ultimate shakey screens.
I also notice that if a lurm boat is on the front because the team was too scared to enter the domination circle of doom in Grim Plexus is a recipe for losing.

[Kmieciu]

A Baoa Qu, on 25 January 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

I make sure that most of the time I fire at ranges where the enemy does not have time to dodge and I have a visual line of sight as well.

At those ranges ERML is the superior weapon over any LRM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Kmieciu, on 25 January 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

At those ranges ERML is the superior weapon over any LRM.

I wish you the best of luck putting ERML on a cyclops or any IS mech for that matter in MWO.

[Robinson Crusher]

I run a tempest with 30 lrm, ecm, and 6 M lasers. It used to be 5+tag, but 6 actually workes better for me since I'm usually second line and otherwise in first. My system sucks. I can't even see dakka or ppc shot to get a sense of timing. I use medium lasers because anything with longer range is something I can't hit with any precision... and I've never been rated higher than 4500th to 4600th in the heavy mechs that I like playing most (14 thousand and something overall).

But none of that is really the problem. What this thread is really about (other than the habitual Lurm hate / Lurm hater hate) is that no one wants people who aren't in tier 1 playing in FW. It doesn't matter what we bring. A less efficient weapon system, or just a less efficient pilot.

I'd love to play in Faction Warfare for the role-playing experience of shifting planet control in the lore universe. But without a tier system... I don't need the attitude while I try and get better. PGI needs to put in a tier system if they want more people in faction play.

[MischiefSC]

Robinson Crusher, on 25 January 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

I run a tempest with 30 lrm, ecm, and 6 M lasers. It used to be 5+tag, but 6 actually workes better for me since I'm usually second line and otherwise in first. My system sucks. I can't even see dakka or ppc shot to get a sense of timing. I use medium lasers because anything with longer range is something I can't hit with any precision... and I've never been rated higher than 4500th to 4600th in the heavy mechs that I like playing most (14 thousand and something overall).

But none of that is really the problem. What this thread is really about (other than the habitual Lurm hate / Lurm hater hate) is that no one wants people who aren't in tier 1 playing in FW. It doesn't matter what we bring. A less efficient weapon system, or just a less efficient pilot.

I'd love to play in Faction Warfare for the role-playing experience of shifting planet control in the lore universe. But without a tier system... I don't need the attitude while I try and get better. PGI needs to put in a tier system if they want more people in faction play.

I would disagree that nobody wants someone who isn't T1.

If you've got system issues that keep you from being accurate at long range, that is what it is. LRMs may actually be one of the best weapons for you to use - and at the risk of giving the wrong people bad ideas, in the context of the situation you're in you might be able to absolutely wreck face in a Tempest - with the right build and playing the right way.

There are some exceptional LRM players. I enjoy dropping with them, have no issue with them on my team. They are however rare as hens teeth because all other things being equal LRMs are less effective than direct fire. When all other things are not equal (system issues, health issues, other legit issues that keep someone from being able to perform well with direct fire weapons) you start adjusting the approach to one of 'what can I do best with'.

First things first. You need range module on the MLs because what you really want to do is aim for 300-350m engagement. A bit outside the MLs optimal but you're starved for good hardpoints to do any one thing well in the Tempest and that's at least going to give you 60 pts of damage.

Here's about what I'd suggest.

I realize it's got an XL in an Archer which is generally a bad idea but remember - we're looking at how best to play the situation you're in. Sure, you can go 68 with a STD and have some survivability but moving over 80 is a survival tool all its own and a more useful one over all.

You want to play at about 300m and think of it more like 2x LB15X plus 6 MLs than just the LRMs. You want to get to 300m or a bit closer, turn a corner, alpha someone with all the lasers and the LRMs 1 time and fade - unless they're looking at someone else, then blast the silly ******* again.

You've got enough ammo to do ~1000 pts of damage with the LRMs. A common mistake people make with LRMs is way more ammo than they need and they just puke it out every chance they get. A good LRM pilot runs LRM + Artemis and you fire with LOS along with hitscan weapons (lasers) so you're always keeping a lock anyway. Practice hit and move. The bigger XL makes you far more fragile but it lets you bring more DHS and a 30% bump in speed (and maneuverability). If you're going to run something like a Tempest that's going to do you better.

Think of it like being a horse archer. You don't stop, you don't find a good place to lob from. You stick and move constantly and you shoot when you know your LRMs are going to land on someone you can *see*, because you're lasering the crap out of them. You're a 60pt alpha - that's respectable, very respectable. Half missiles, half energy. Don't think of the LRMs like an indirect fire weapon, think of them like a 'bonus face-wrecking kicker' to your MLs.

Look at a BLR 2C with 5 LPLs too - hitscan, helps with a lot of accuracy issues. You're fighting around 400-500m most the time so long range is less of an issue. How are SRMs for you? Splat builds? You can also double down on the point blank and run splat brawlers + energy; there are some great options for that. HBK 4SP with 2 SRM6A and 5MLs is a brawler with few peers. You can run a Marauder or WHR 6S with AC20 and 6MLs, another great point blank mech for brawling.

Your attitude of wanting to get better is what matters. I think you might really benefit from focusing on mechs that can go ~80+, that's going to keep you from getting flanked or out-maneuvered. Slow mechs are a lot harder to pilot than fast ones, the ability to get in and out of a situation is absolutely critical.

If you're using LRMs, use them in the front. Be stepping into the firing line, taking your shots and backing out. Stick with your team - target and attack mechs that your teammates are attacking. Don't go off to find targets of your own. If you've got issues with system performance you're at a disadvantage - play with that in mind. Focus on amplifying the performance of your existing teammates. It takes time and practice but makes a world of difference.

[Kmieciu]

Lady Alexandra Cousland, on 25 January 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

I wish you the best of luck putting ERML on a cyclops or any IS mech for that matter in MWO.

I'm trying to explain why using LRMs in FW against clanners is a bad idea.
ERML with a range module has 446 meters of effective range. (462meters if you've also got TC1). You can mount 6 ERML on almost every clan mech out there.
It has 1.15s duration while LRMs travel @ 160m/s. Even with artemis, it would take about 3,5 for the missiles to lock & reach the target. The clanner can burn a hole in your CT, and move into cover by the time your missiles would hit him.
6ERML has more alpha damage than 2xLRM20+A.

And the ERML is not even the best clan weapon. C-LPL, C-ERPPC, C-Gauss, C-UACs(2,5,10) - using all of these weapon you can deal full damage to a LRM boat without the risk of taking any damage in return.

If you use Radar Deprivation, you don't even need hard cover - you just have to break the line of sight and take a step sideways and the missiles won't hit you.

Edited by Kmieciu, 26 January 2017 - 04:30 AM.