258 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

KingCobra, on 15 June 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

Then tell me OP why for the last 2 weeks I have played FP on the IS side I see very few missile boats but on the clan side I see tons of CLAN MISSLE BOATS that make it look like LURMAGGEDON5 every battle?

This is what it looks like from the IS side as CLANS rain missiles on us .

Original post was made before ECM was nerfed and LRMs were buffed. Don't get me wrong, they are still a force-multiplier weapon... meaning they do better when you bring them in volume with all the fixin's (TAG/NARC/BAP/ETC)

[KingCobra]

MovinTarget, on 15 June 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Original post was made before ECM was nerfed and LRMs were buffed. Don't get me wrong, they are still a force-multiplier weapon... meaning they do better when you bring them in volume with all the fixin's (TAG/NARC/BAP/ETC)

And I agree LRM should be allowed in FP just as much as any other weapon system in MWO.

If I was to play in a highly competitive unit situation like a league then it would be different high DPS would determine the best weapons to use per battle.

FP should be a game mode for everyone to enjoy have fun be a little competitive and bring what you want weapons.

But this is just my opinion others may not see FP the same way as me.

[MovinTarget]

I would disagree to an extent.

FP was was originally developed to be "endgame content" and was intended to be inherently competetive.

There is even a warning the first time you click the faction play tab (that most simply ignore) that warns users of its elevated competitiveness...

The problem is it is also a source of swag that a lot of players want (like mechbays) and they've found that even if they "phone it in" they can grind towards these rewards wothout caring about winning and certainly not about teamwork...

While boating lurms is not an automatic indictment of a player on this, it is all to easy to spot, where others (firing weapons well out of range, yolo'ing to perma in under 5 minutes, general lack of situational awareness) require us to be a bit more attentive...

So ues, lurmers may get a bit of an unfair rap, it still stands that there are much more effective ways to use tonnage than all/mostly LRMs when solo dropping.

Edited by MovinTarget, 15 June 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[KingCobra]

MovinTarget, on 15 June 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

I would disagree to an extent.

FP was was originally developed to be "endgame content" and was intended to be inherently competetive.

There is even a warning the first time you click the faction play tab (that most simply ignore) that warns users of its elevated competitiveness...

The problem is it is also a source of swag that a lot of players want (like mechbays) and they've found that even if they "phone it in" they can grind towards these rewards wothout caring about winning and certainly not about teamwork...

While boating lurms is not an automatic indictment of a player on this, it is all to easy to spot, where others (firing weapons well out of range, yolo'ing to perma in under 5 minutes, general lack of situational awareness) require us to be a bit more attentive...

So ues, lurmers may get a bit of an unfair rap, it still stands that there are much more effective ways to use tonnage than all/mostly LRMs when solo dropping.

I think what makes a game or even a game mode have longevity is actually how much fun you can say you have had playing it.

Many players don't want to conform to strict mech builds or unit commanders that are like drill sergeants 24/7
even if it means 90% win rate.

Edited by KingCobra, 16 June 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[MovinTarget]

KingCobra, on 16 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think what makes a game or even a game mode have longevity is actually how much fun you can say you have had playing it.

Many players don't want to conform to strict mech builds or unit commanders that are like drill sergeants 24/7
even if it means 90% win rate.

I know I don't... that's what I like about [IDI], we have good players, but we try not to let that get in the way of fun. If one of us starts getting a little too tryhard-ish, we just shoot him until he realizes its just a game.

[DarklightCA]

KingCobra, on 16 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think what makes a game or even a game mode have longevity is actually how much fun you can say you have had playing it.

Many players don't want to conform to strict mech builds or unit commanders that are like drill sergeants 24/7
even if it means 90% win rate.

Because all units are strict drill sergeants who don't want to have fun. How many units have you been in exactly? because having fun is the primary principle as to most of them the best way to do that is playing with other people. I've seen plenty of units bring stupid builds into Faction Play. Being in a unit doesn't make you a try hard.

However that doesn't stop the fact that LRM's are just a crap and ineffective weapon in this game. Nobody can stop you from bringing one, not even some units who (primary clan units) that I see bringing LRM mechs. However doing so rubs most people the wrong way regardless if it's a unit or solo player on your team because for the sake of your fun you have given your team a handicap.

There are a lot more effective ways to have fun in this game without having to handicap your team.

[Demonbox77]

Let's start by saying this, I suck at this game, or at least I'm way below average, why do I play it? Well 'cause I can stil get some fun out of it even with my skills (or lack of thereof).

What makes me laugh thou is that in every single "competitive" online environment people recently (the past 10 or so years) started using the "META" argument.

Let's put it out here in the open, META is what allows the mediocre/sheep to win, it's the easy mode, no need to turn your brain on, just use what everyone else is using "thousands of users utilized our winning method!".

Metas are meant to be broken, stick to them and the devs will break them for you, start thinking proactively and you'll be the one breaking them, in doing so proving you are actually better than the mass.

[DarklightCA]

Demonbox77, on 17 June 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Let's start by saying this, I suck at this game, or at least I'm way below average, why do I play it? Well 'cause I can stil get some fun out of it even with my skills (or lack of thereof).

What makes me laugh thou is that in every single "competitive" online environment people recently (the past 10 or so years) started using the "META" argument.

Let's put it out here in the open, META is what allows the mediocre/sheep to win, it's the easy mode, no need to turn your brain on, just use what everyone else is using "thousands of users utilized our winning method!".

Metas are meant to be broken, stick to them and the devs will break them for you, start thinking proactively and you'll be the one breaking them, in doing so proving you are actually better than the mass.

META is and always will be whatever is the most effective way of playing the game. META always shifts whenever PGI makes changes to the game but people adapt. You can play outside of the meta but it's usually never as good as the META itself and if you aren't a good player then that's something you won't have much success doing.

Every weapon in this game has had it's hands on the wheel of META at one point or another, all except for LRM's. LRM's will never be META because they are the most unreliable weapon in this game. ECM countered them hard, with them nerfed AMS counters them hard especially when they get buffed. Even without that, simply moving out of line of sight or moving into cover counters them hard.

Even when they can do damage, it's completely spread damage which is the most ineffective way of killing a mech. All your damage potential is wasted getting through every piece of armor a mech has when all other weapons have to do is go through the CT, ST if they are XL or just legging somebody. That's a lot less armor they have to go through, killing mechs faster and more efficiently.

But sure, proactively use ineffective weapons and show those META lovers who's boss by sometimes dealing damage from the back of the team while your team takes all the damage for you. Make sure you call out what you hit to help your team focus on those damage areas. Easiest way for a LRM player would be "I hit everything, just shoot anything". Teamplay is important.

Edited by DarklightCA, 17 June 2017 - 06:22 AM.

[MovinTarget]

LRMs are the "teamwork force-multiplyer" weapon in this game, weak on its own, strong when you have a team built around it.

Its also incredibly boring when the team is built around it.

[MischiefSC]

Meta -

Most Effective Tactic Available.

If someone sucks at the game, can't aim, etc. than LRMs may be the best choice for them. Is what it is.

However a part of what makes bads bad is things like thinking "meta builds" are a crutch, etc. Whatever the most effective builds are in the given balance environment is the 'meta'. The mentality involved in getting poor results and blaming everyone/everything else is part of what makes bad players stay bad. If what you're doing isn't working then you need to change what you're doing to what works.

If LRMs were good then good teams and players would use them. Why that's so threatening to some people I don't get.

[MovinTarget]

MischiefSC, on 17 June 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Meta -

Most Effective Tactic Available.

If someone sucks at the game, can't aim, etc. than LRMs may be the best choice for them. Is what it is.

However a part of what makes bads bad is things like thinking "meta builds" are a crutch, etc. Whatever the most effective builds are in the given balance environment is the 'meta'. The mentality involved in getting poor results and blaming everyone/everything else is part of what makes bad players stay bad. If what you're doing isn't working then you need to change what you're doing to what works.

If LRMs were good then good teams and players would use them. Why that's so threatening to some people I don't get.

By extension I would say those that complain about <insert playstyle/mech/weapon class here> ruining their game are as much at fault if they are not actively building a team around them to play the way they think they should be playing.

If you are PUG dropping, you get pugs. You can't dictate what they have to bring, nor can you berate them for not doing what you think is right.

If you don't put in the effort to make a team or be a part of a team that is built to have a better chance at winning, you are not in a position to say anything to someone who may not have the same motives/motivation as you.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 June 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Zolaz]

KingCobra, on 16 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think what makes a game or even a game mode have longevity is actually how much fun you can say you have had playing it.

Many players don't want to conform to strict mech builds or unit commanders that are like drill sergeants 24/7
even if it means 90% win rate.

[Kubernetes]

Demonbox77, on 17 June 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Let's put it out here in the open, META is what allows the mediocre/sheep to win, it's the easy mode, no need to turn your brain on, just use what everyone else is using "thousands of users utilized our winning method!".

Metas are meant to be broken, stick to them and the devs will break them for you, start thinking proactively and you'll be the one breaking them, in doing so proving you are actually better than the mass.

The meta is whatever is most effective given the current state of the game. If meta simply described easy mode, i.e. a crutch for the bads, it sure wouldn't be Gauss + ERPPCs.

[naterist]

MovinTarget, on 15 June 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

I would disagree to an extent.

FP was was originally developed to be "endgame content" and was intended to be inherently competetive.

originally? lol. originally, this was gonna be mw5, then after that qp wasnt even on the table, the whole thing was gonna be fw, then that changed, or the change was announced, a year or so prior to release, and fw was in the pipeline for release soon.tm, qp never should have even sprung up.

[MovinTarget]

naterist, on 17 June 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

originally? lol. originally, this was gonna be mw5, then after that qp wasnt even on the table, the whole thing was gonna be fw, then that changed, or the change was announced, a year or so prior to release, and fw was in the pipeline for release soon.tm, qp never should have even sprung up.

Okay, your point is before-there-was-QP-what-was-to-be-FP-was-supposed-to-be-the-actual-game. My point is that when they introduced CW/FP for consumption it was touted as the endgame content.

As far as I know it still is, or PGI would have removed that warning the first time someone opens the Faction Tab.

There is no warning on QP or Group QP, only FP. People ignore it at their own "peril"

I have long said there needed to be more than a warning for FP so that people have to elevate their game to what they were being warned. That or get rid of the rewards that make people slum through it so that only players interested the mode itself will drop. That won't solve all the problems but will reduce that.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 June 2017 - 04:08 PM.

[naterist]

im like...... 95% sure that they intend for comp to take on the endgame content role, since they gave it a lot of the minimums suggested for fw by those who think fw should be/is endgame content. i think they realized when everyone brought up the old presentation they made for fw prerelease how they kinda f'd up, since this is so much different, but they realize this system works, so theyll try and match the old pitches to what we have now, whichll be weird, but maybe itll work.

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

If you use lurms at all change your name to Nancy.

[Dee Eight]

Given the increased number of missile systems thanks to tech advance, I'm amazed how many still won't carry an AMS. 1.5 tons is worth more than 10 tons of armor when the missiles are flying. To yourself and your team. Last game was a loss... I only did 1740 damag on IS side... skirmish in the caustic valley. 8 kills though, and 660 missiles destroyed. That's 660 MORE damage the enemy clan team had to do to kill me and my team mates, than they would have had I not carried AMS on every mech in my deck.

[Wildstreak]

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