56 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

Inner Sphere AC2, Clan AC2, LB2X and CUAC2.

Where do you feel these weapons are at right now, all things considered? Well balanced and underestimated? On the verge of reaching that sweet spot? Still vastly underpowered? What?

After the buff, I still don't see them very often. Does anyone have any good AC2 builds they've been using? I've been seeing an increase of quad AC2 Riflemen and triple AC2 Shadow Hawks, but not much else. Sometimes the CUAC2 boating Ultraviolet or Night Gyr, but those are still fairly rare.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 12 January 2017 - 04:17 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

LB2X seems useless to me. It may crit more, but so does the other AC2s in general, even if it's just 1 less projectile, at least it's PPFLD and accurate.

[jss78]

The heat reduction made the 6xAC/2 TrollJager quite a bit more fun.

[Snazzy Dragon]

IS AC2 has some niche applications because of insane cooldown quirks on some mechs-- but the 4UAC2 hunchback IIC will beat them all out.

LB2s are not worth the spread at range-- pinpoint is more effective

UAC2 is ineffective unless superboated with 4 or more of them peppering an enemy.

CAC2 isn't a real weapon.

[KinLuu]

Currently AC2s and UAC2s are pretty strong. Especially if you are able to boat 4+ of them.

You see them alot in FP/CW.

[DovisKhan]

Tristan Winter, on 12 January 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

Inner Sphere AC2, Clan AC2, LB2X and CUAC2.

Where do you feel these weapons are at right now, all things considered? Well balanced and underestimated? On the verge of reaching that sweet spot? Still vastly underpowered? What?

After the buff, I still don't see them very often. Does anyone have any good AC2 builds they've been using? I've been seeing an increase of quad AC2 Riflemen and triple AC2 Shadow Hawks, but not much else. Sometimes the CUAC2 boating Ultraviolet or Night Gyr, but those are still fairly rare.

1) Ultraviolet with 8 cuac2 is the most dps available in game, it's the most powerful setup available

2) Gyr with 6 cuac2 is the most powerful heavy mech setup available

3) Anything 4+ cuac2 will be great

4) Lbx2 - alwys worse than cuac2, it's much slower velocity projectiles and has less dps

5) IS AC2 - Jager with 5 of them is great, King Crab or Mauler can mount UAC5s, which are still better since IS UAC5s are just awesome

[El Bandito]

Tristan Winter, on 12 January 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

Inner Sphere AC2, Clan AC2, LB2X and CUAC2.

Just right.




Well, the LBX2 might be underperforming a bit, but that's already in line with LBX series sucking in general.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2017 - 05:43 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I'd say, the AC2 is underestimated...at least when mounted high. I'm getting better performance from my 6 AC2 Mauler than I am with 4UAC5s. A lot better. Haven't compared to 5AC5s. But the ability to throw out 12 points of damage repeatedly, and that far away, has never been as fun.

Same with the 2AC2, 4ML Black Jack, 3AC2 ShadowHawk and my 4AC2,4ML Jagger. They have been a joy to play of late.

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 12 January 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

I'd say, the AC2 is underestimated...at least when mounted high. I'm getting better performance from my 6 AC2 Mauler than I am with 4UAC5s. A lot better. Haven't compared to 5AC5s. But the ability to throw out 12 points of damage repeatedly, and that far away, has never been as fun.

Same with the 2AC2, 4ML Black Jack, 3AC2 ShadowHawk and my 4AC2,4ML Jagger. They have been a joy to play of late.

Never as fun as my 6xCUAC2 Jade Kite.

[Bud Crue]

El Bandito, on 12 January 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

Never as fun as my 6xCUAC2 Jade Kite.

No fair! Tech imbalance! See!!! Right there: a totally unfair example of tech imbalance!!! I want long distance machine guns too! Filthy OP clanners.

[The6thMessenger]

Bud Crue, on 12 January 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

No fair! Tech imbalance! See!!! Right there: a totally unfair example of tech imbalance!!! I want long distance machine guns too! Filthy OP clanners.

You can do that with the king crab -- at least 6 AC2, and you can macro it even.

[Graugger]

Kind of think they need to go through and hammer down the velocities of the AC series in general again to bring them more in line with laser usage.

When the clans first came out the AC2s were supposed to have a velocity of 1400 m/s but they never implemented it into the main server. Now a days 1250 might be a little better... Additionally there doesn't seem to be enough bullet drop to AC rounds, they're basically snub nose howitzers so their drop should be much more of an arc.

[BigBenn]

The fact remains that they are not seen unless mounted in groups of 4 or more should tell you something.

I think the entire AC class needs a re-work. Shorten the reload, decrease the ammo/ton, and increase the heat penalty for grouped fire (2 or more should be almost insta-over heat suicide). Make ammo an issue and make heat an issue. If you want to fire the quad AC2 or quad AC5 then have it it, but watch your ammo counter and your heat meter closely or else you'll find yourself with no ammo and a shut down mech in no time. Play it smart and fire in bursts to conserve ammo and limit heat and you'll be fine.

It would be nice to see more light or medium (or even heavy and assault) mechs carrying a single or even paired AC2's and AC5's, but in this current version of MWO we'll never see it thanks to the ease in which lasers can be used. Why carry an AC2 when you can carry 4+ ML's and heat sinks.

[Snazzy Dragon]

BigBenn, on 12 January 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

The fact remains that they are not seen unless mounted in groups of 4 or more should tell you something.

I think the entire AC class needs a re-work. Shorten the reload, decrease the ammo/ton, and increase the heat penalty for grouped fire (2 or more should be almost insta-over heat suicide). Make ammo an issue and make heat an issue. If you want to fire the quad AC2 or quad AC5 then have it it, but watch your ammo counter and your heat meter closely or else you'll find yourself with no ammo and a shut down mech in no time. Play it smart and fire in bursts to conserve ammo and limit heat and you'll be fine.

It would be nice to see more light or medium (or even heavy and assault) mechs carrying a single or even paired AC2's and AC5's, but in this current version of MWO we'll never see it thanks to the ease in which lasers can be used. Why carry an AC2 when you can carry 4+ ML's and heat sinks.

If you want ACs to show up.. you can't start nerfing them... :/

[LordNothing]

ac2 is brutal now. for the clan 2 class i use it over 10s and 20s when i have the option to run at least 2 or 3 of them as opposed to a single large gun. is 2s are good too, but not at the level where they replace the larger guns, so for the is they are on par. lb2 and cac2 is good because its a low heat option to the fairly hot uac2s. obviously the lb2 has no real advantage other than the fact that it has a cd module. but those are going away soon and the lb2 will loose its rapid fire advantage around then.

the lower jam time on the uac2 is really good, but i kind of think they need to drop it by one second across the entire uac line (especially 10s and 20s). remember a lot of the jam chances actually went up, so one less second of jam time isnt too much to ask.

[Stormie]

I enjoy my quad uac2 hunchie and quad uac2 summoner. (odd build, only mech I've ever run with weapons in arms that have no armour... Batshit crazy). The summoner especially puts out good consistent numbers in solo queue.
Still wouldn't dream of using an LBX2 or clan AC2. Haven't really thought to try IS AC2s since the changes. Might make that tomorrows project.

Ps. Tristan/alistair really enjoying this series of lets have a discussion about something that hasn't been discussed in a while topics. Keep it up

[Funky Bacon]

The Hexa AC/2 Jagermech have been kicking butt since it was first discovered. Too bad not many mechs can have that setup or have good locations for it. AC/2's really need to be boated to be effective.

Also I hope one day we get the Light AC/2 to play around with.

[DeeHawk]

They're pretty good right now, but it's clearly a matter of perspective.
I haven't tried the clan tech version, but I have played around alot with the AC2.
The stats are nice for the heat, DPS is very close to an AC5.
But they are weapons that differ somewhat from all the other weapons in the game (and the Meta)

A quick example might help giving a perspective.

Boating 6x AC2 on a King Crab (000), gives you:

• 12 pinpoint dmg every 0.61 seconds
  
• Low cockpit-shake/noise, which doesn't scare the enemy into cover before he sees his armor is gone.
  
• Gauss-like velocity at even better range (800m w. module)
  
• Possibility of macroed chainfire w. almost 10 shots per second (Crazy effective suppression, noisy and blinding)
  
• Over the top heat management (can deliver 30 sec continuous fire on Canyon Network = 542 dmg)
  
• Low weight means you can boat 15-16 ton of ammo (Worth 2000+ dmg)

However it comes with the huge drawback of having to face the enemy to keep a decent DPS going. This, off course, is just a matter of playstyle.


Last but not least, they're really fun!

*EDIT*
Yet again I managed to avoid the real question

My answer is, they definetely have their place in the game as the secondary line of fire, and/or pre-engagement sniping, but due to requiring constant face off you take a not neglible hit on your survivabilty as torso twisting totally cuts of your damage.
All this considered, I think they're pretty balanced.

Edited by DeeHawk, 12 January 2017 - 08:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

AC/2 have a niche in long range suppression if you have at least a 20% decrease to cooldown time and can stack at least 3 or a pair with complementary weapons. Velocity quirks can boost it to extreme range viability supplemented with ERLL and/or ERPPC. I have used them on the RFL-3N with 2xAC/2+2xERLL and it can command a huge radius, denying Assaults the ability to move without great cost in armor. The BJ-1 can do similar. In FW, I have used a pair in conjunction with a pair of ER PPC on cold, long-range maps to paralyze enemy pokes, though I would say the contribution of the AC/2 on that 'Mech is minimal compared to the peepers. Generally speaking, I would say bringing a Gauss/2x AC/5 and 2xPPC/3xERLL is superior for the same job, even on the RFL and even after the range nerf.

I dunno. I don't think it is horrid, but it is hugely dependent on hard-point location and number, map, and quirks. I would prefer a little more consistency. I think a flat increase to rate of fire would do it, just enough to make the average DPS per gun the same as the Ultras taken over an extended period of time (Ultras grant superior DPS in the short term, as they should). LB-2X need to have their projectile velocity bumped up and either fire faster still or get increased damage per pellet.

I think Clan Ultra 2s are in a fairly good place. Solid alternative to twin cERPPC on the poke, respectable surge for dakka-vomit builds, excellent range, and it weighs as much as an isERLL.

[Tristan Winter]

Stormie, on 12 January 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

I enjoy my quad uac2 hunchie and quad uac2 summoner. (odd build, only mech I've ever run with weapons in arms that have no armour... Batshit crazy). The summoner especially puts out good consistent numbers in solo queue.
Still wouldn't dream of using an LBX2 or clan AC2. Haven't really thought to try IS AC2s since the changes. Might make that tomorrows project.

I don't think I've ever seen a quad AC Summoner. Does it have lasers too?

Stormie, on 12 January 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

Ps. Tristan/alistair really enjoying this series of lets have a discussion about something that hasn't been discussed in a while topics. Keep it up

Thanks, I do try to spice up my regular stream of vitriol with some fun threads now and again.