23 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

For example

-How many burst shots pellets clan uacs have. Eg by default for uac2 is back to 2 pellets, upgrade to reduce to 1.
-Laser duration vs heat tradeoffs. I.e Upgrade skill to reduce duration but increase overall heat of laser.
-Predator heat vision back, or an increase in heat vision visible distance.
-lbx spread or number of pellets.
-Gauss charge removal (w00t) or speedup in charge time.
-Allowing over tonnage Armour values at the expense of accel or decell. I.e really allow that Atlas to become tanky if have tons to spare.
-Ghost heat penalty changes. eg 8 medium lasers or a reduction in heat penalty values.
-Minimap directional arrows.

Edited by l33tworks, 25 January 2017 - 03:40 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Hmm it would be very interesting but I don't think that it will happen. Tradeoff could happen but things major like Gauss charge removal would not.

I'm sure that there will be "meta" builds for certain 'Mechs (variants) though, but this is not related to the topic.

[Anunknownlurker]

nope, we are gamers, we min/max, that's what we do. After a short period of experimentation (a couple of days maybe?), optimal builds and skills will be published all over the place (metamechs, that's you I'm talking about!) and, whilst the meta my change from the current ERPPC/gauss (doubtful) it will simply be replaced by the next one.

If you know WOW it is similar to how the Talent trees worked out; there was an optimal build for each class and, once that was worked out, IF you wanted to be competitive, you used that.

Maybe I'm wrong, we don't know the exact workings of Skill Tree™ yet but I suspect it will go as I outlined above.

[Carl Vickers]

It will come down to how many points you can spend and how many trees there are. If you spread the points too much you will not be really good at anything.

Have to wait and see but depending on the above I think boating will become an issue, as you can put all the points in one area to make the selected weapon rock vs spreading your points between 2 or more different weapons.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 11 January 2017 - 04:32 AM.

[l33tworks]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 11 January 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

nope, we are gamers, we min/max, that's what we do. After a short period of experimentation (a couple of days maybe?), optimal builds and skills will be published all over the place (metamechs, that's you I'm talking about!) and, whilst the meta my change from the current ERPPC/gauss (doubtful) it will simply be replaced by the next one.

If you know WOW it is similar to how the Talent trees worked out; there was an optimal build for each class and, once that was worked out, IF you wanted to be competitive, you used that.

Maybe I'm wrong, we don't know the exact workings of Skill Tree™ yet but I suspect it will go as I outlined above.

Well err I think you missed the point because this is exactly why im saying they should have "interesting" ones" instead of plain upgrades we have now. Or if it is an upgrade let the meta players waste their points on that and the people that dont want to go down this path have other playstyles.

For example most people want less number of UAC burst shots and a shorter laser duration because its more lethal and reduces ttk facetime etc. But oersonally I prefer more burst shots and longer duration as its more fun and allows you to correct your aim mid shot. I know at least one other person that feels this way. So dont funnel everyone down the ssme upgrade path.

Predator vision isnt OP just fun.

Gauss charge removal could be at the expense of half velocity or crit etc. The meta players would still use the charge up.

Edited by l33tworks, 11 January 2017 - 04:39 AM.

[El Bandito]

UAC jam% reduction for my CUAC2 boating Jade Kite is the only thing I care about right now.

[Hit the Deck]

l33tworks, on 11 January 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Well err I think you missed the point because this is exactly why im saying they should have "interesting" ones" instead of plain upgrades we have now. Or if it is an upgrade let the meta players waste their points on that and the people that dont want to go down this path have other playstyles.

For example most people want less number of UAC burst shots and a shorter laser duration because its more lethal and reduces ttk facetime etc. But oersonally I prefer more burst shots and longer duration as its more fun and allows you to correct your aim mid shot. I know at least one other person that feels this way. So dont funnel everyone down the ssme upgrade path.

Predator vision isnt OP just fun.

Gauss charge removal could be at the expense of half velocity or crit etc. The meta players would still use the charge up.

Like I said earlier, I don't think that PGI will go down this path because it will take too much work (implementing skills which make drastic changes).

[Snazzy Dragon]

I can't wait to see kodiaks picking up extra armor and structure and omgwtfbbq energy vomit jags and t wolves spam heat dissipation skills

[LowSubmarino]

The possible unique modifications for all mechs will be very interesting. I think its a good step.

Itll be much harder to balance builds which should be pretty lethal if you look at what exactly you will be able to buff with the skill system.

I have already identified 2 builds (which I use) that should be 10 - 30 % stronger (heat, armor, cooldown etc...) and would be slightly op.

That said, everybody can use all mechs and modify them to their liking.

There will be a lot of whining and complaints. Probably a lot.

And though there might be longer or long periods where multiple mechs are incredibly strong (or too strong) with said modifications, all this provides a lot of optons and variatons. You can have tanks with highest armor and all that or you can strengthen a mechs given role and further highlight the build with quirks like cooldown or less heat and all that.

Personally Id also enjoy repairing and rearming costs and the necessity to balance the choice of mech, how well you play, and what it will cost to field big, high tier mechs.

Ppl would have a much higher incentive to play weaker mechs - or lights and/or unpopular mechs e.g. the dragon - if those mechs were much cheaper to sustain.

Let some mechs be incredibly strong. Im not for a complete balance on all levels. Some mechs are very strong in certain roles and better than others. Using strong mechs should literally come at a price though. It should be much more expensive to use mechs like a night gyr or a T-wolf or a Kodiak than lets say a dragon or a Highlander.

Id love a game within a game where you have to sell loot from your games, repair your mechs, try to balance income and your expenses. Give new players like a month or even three months where they can see the earnings and/or losses but enjoy a care free time of not having to worry about covering their expenses. They could get their winnings even but dont have to cover large bills when they played bad.

Ultimatly all of this would make ppl have a stronger sense of accomplishment and allow them to feel more of an impact concerning their decisions (what mechs do they play in what way and how often) and how well or not well they play.

There could also be monthly or even weekly deals where you play mechs that get a boost to repair costs and such. So this weeks repair and rearm-boosted mechs could be eg the kit fox, the hunchback, the dragon and the highlander.

Rearm and repair shouldnt be too high. Evybody should be able to play them. But not 24/7. Play super bad 10 games with high tier mechs and you should feel it in terms of your earnings and especially losses. This would also encourage players to not play as dumb or brainless as a lot of ppl do. If they do stupid moves or get 39 dmg in a kodiak 3 and die without accomplishing anything then they will not gain much xp or money. Then they have to pay a bit even.

There could also be a bonus to earnings when you play well in weaker mechs. Getting 6 kills and doing 1000 dmg with multiple destroyed components and so on could generate a higher income than pulling of that feat in a Kodiak.

This wont be easy to balance and some ppl might now like the idea of having to worry about finances and such. But it would allow you to be much more involved with your mechs, how well you play, what works and what doesnt work.

Im always for more custimization and an experience that is not as forgiving as mwos no matter what you do you always earn and theres no consequences attached to your choices.

Sure, it makes it very newbie friendly.

It take away immersion and involvement though.

I dont like playing weeks mechs if theres no advantage in it for me.

If on the other hand I am rewarded by playing a dragon (while the opposing team has a timberwolf as one of their heavies which I will have to fight) and could earn three times as much as the timberwolf if I contribute as much as he/she does, then that would be the first time for me where I would actually consider playing a much higher number of mechs. Mechs that I wouldnt consider if theres no struggle, no benefit, no advantage etc.

[process]

I can't imagine the new skill tree will do anything that take the existing mech efficiencies and weapon modules and chop them up into incremental values, and overlay a system where you can only unlock a fraction of them. I'm hesitantly looking forward to see what sort of min-maxing we'll be able to do with that system.

I'd like to think most of the weapon stats OP is talking about would be better served as the whole weapon-manufacturer-variation, as has been discussed forever.

[Appogee]

l33tworks, on 11 January 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

WILL THE NEW SKILL TREE SYSTEM GAVE INTERESTING VARIABLES INSTEAD OF THE SAME OLD?

It's PGI.

The only time they don't use the "least effort" solution is when there's a "no effort" solution available.

Sounds like salt. But history shows it's true.

Edited by Appogee, 11 January 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[HGAK47]

I just hope they actually make your choices meaningful. Like I would love to have a tree / build for my centurions that has absurdly fast arm of dakka and I can tweek and spec it just how I like but because I used so much 'tree space' on dakka then perhaps my sensors and armour skills are lacking to compensate.

Basically make us pick and choose. I dont want it to be a boring "get everything" type of ordeal.

I also hope they give multipliers to relevant skills to sort of replace quirks because otherwise if most mechs have the same skilltrees then a lot of mechs will become totally obsolete.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

l33tworks, on 11 January 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Laser duration vs heat tradeoffs.

Laser boats will take both since I'm pretty sure the skill tree they are giving us will have no path removal.

l33tworks, on 11 January 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

lbx spread or number of pellets.
Gauss charge removal or speedup in charge time.
How many burst shots clan uacs have.

While LBX spread may end up a thing, number of pellets for weapons and removal of Gauss charge will never happen because of how large of an impact they can have on these weapons (changing their behavior completely).

l33tworks, on 11 January 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Allowing overtonnage armour at the expense of accel or decell.

Would most likely never be used, even by whales and especially if it means you have to spend tonnage to mount that armor.

[Gas Guzzler]

Snazzy Dragon, on 11 January 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

I can't wait to see kodiaks picking up extra armor and structure and omgwtfbbq energy vomit jags and t wolves spam heat dissipation skills

There's actually a very good chance that those mechs will pick up less "skills" then a mastered Kodiak/Timber/Ebon have now.

[l33tworks]

-Added Minimap directional arrows.

[Tristan Winter]

Based on the preview and PGI's track record, it seems likely that we're mostly dealing with weapon upgrades, UAV upgrades, module equivalents (radar deprivation, target decay, 360 targeting, etc) and basically new versions of what we had already.

It seems unlikely that PGI will actually make some skills that lead to role warfare as described in 2011 and 2012, with dedicated scouts, attackers, defenders and commanders working together for optimal efficiency. I'm not expecting a lot of synergy and the borders between the different roles will be quite fluid. I wouldn't be surprised to see assault mechs with radar deprivation skills, for example, even though PGI may peg that as a "scout" skill.

[DovisKhan]

PREDATOR VISION - yes, with that I would already consider it a success, despite some inevitable blunders to come with such ambitious re-imagining of a progression system

[l33tworks]

Well at least they added magaxine capacity weapon spread and the jump jet vectoring!

But huge missed oppurtunity for more interesting stuff!

Would love uac pellet number changes and predator vision.

Overtonnage skill would also be cool.

[Nesutizale]

How about getting over to the testserver and play with the skillsystem? We have hardly anyone over there and you wonder why PGI then releases something that feels untestet. NO ONE IS ******* THERE !!!

[l33tworks]

They need to add incentives like mc mechbays or cbills for that to happpen. Besides it takes just 15 or so munutes to fugure out and test the new system. People arent going to play for nothing for weeks after they have tested what they wanted to.