39 replies to this topic

[JoanTheLiar]

Should IIc mechs be a neutral ground use for both inner sphere and clans in faction warfare? I would like to see how the community thinks of the idea..

[RestosIII]

.... No? They were Clan mechs specifically. That's like saying the Mad Dog should be used by both sides just because in the MW3 intro an Inner Sphere pilot used one.

[Y E O N N E]

No. Removes the point of making any distinction between Clans and IS, if you also let the IS stuff Clan tech into them. If you don't, then they aren't doing anything the IS can't already do with the 'Mechs they have.

[Bombast]

No. Because of what those folks up there said.

Out of curiosity though, do you have a more complex, nuanced, actually reasoned argument for such a change? Who knows, it may make sense.

[Battlemaster56]

No IIC mechs are Clan only battlemechs, exclusivly used by their respected Clan powers, no if you talking about Clan mechs that been captured and refited with IS tech I betting theirs a few out their that can.

For example the Battle Cobra was captured by Comstar forces and was refitted with IS tech and stuff. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Cobra

Same go for the Battlemasters, Jade Falcon captured a factory and start producing clan refits of Battlemasters.

[Metus regem]

IIC's no, they are clan through and through. Things start to get a little sticky with things like the Miffed Kitten Mk. II and Mk. III though, as they are on the MUL's and RAT's for both Clan and IS forces...

[I_AM_ZUUL]

JoanTheLiar, on 13 January 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Should IIc mechs be a neutral ground use for both inner sphere and clans in faction warfare? I would like to see how the community thinks of the idea..

I would actually support this cause what needs to be done is never going to be... advancing the timeline out of the unquestionably WORST Battletech rule set there ever was, Clans vs IS required a massive amount of arbitrary rules, Players agreeing to abide by the artificially imposed rules, and MELEE to be functional. I never really had a problem with it since it dropped right after I started playing... but Clan vs IS is by its very definition Un-Balanced. Need to move up to The Jihad and/or The Reaving War... so since that is not going to happen and they will not even let IS use Clan weapons even though by 3053 the Great Houses were all doing and Mercs could get Black Market weapons for obscene prices (you maybe an actual REASON to be a Loyalist would be cool) its just going to be one continually changing clusterf*ck. But then that should have been apparent to anyone who played BT... cause "balance" was always going to be DOA.

Hell... just giving IS mechs XLs that dont kill you on a ST loss would do more for balance then anything else they have ever done.

[Y E O N N E]

What I would like to see is some more hard-point inflation for certain IS 'Mechs.

Take, for example, the Locust IIC. That's nine energy hardpoints on that 'Mech. It is just as fast with more armor and dramatically more firepower than the Locust 1E/3M and that's before adding in cXL and the Clan weapons doing more damage from further away with the same heat efficiency when you normalize for expected heat-sink counts.

Why don't we give the 1E or 3M two more hard-points? Eight isSL is basically the same thing as six isSPL, but with a little more range. Is that too scary or something? Eight isSPL is too heavy to realistically run, so that's out even though that's also no worse than a Firestarter. Six isSL and two isMPL can run at cost of some armor, is that too scary, too?

Two more ballistics for the LCT-1V and -3V each would also be nice. Wouldn't need MG RoF quirks then.

I mean, a significant chunk of the problem between Clans and IS is that the Clans often get the ability to physically mount more guns on top of having guns that are more potent for their weight. There is no IS 'Mech in the game that can bring more than nine weight-efficient energy weapons, and the ghost heat limits on them mean they can't even fire them in damage-competitive bundles for their range-brackets (looking at you isMPL).

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 13 January 2017 - 12:07 PM.

[RestosIII]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 13 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Need to move up to The Jihad

FedCom Civil War I'd be fine with, but you're taking it too far.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

FedCom Civil War I'd be fine with, but you're taking it too far.

Jihad era is when the IS finally get all of the tech they'd need to directly compete, though. The Light PPC doesn't come out until 3067, and that's essential.

[Bud Crue]

JoanTheLiar, on 13 January 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Should IIc mechs be a neutral ground use for both inner sphere and clans in faction warfare? I would like to see how the community thinks of the idea..

Whu?

Allow that and then no one would ever play a regular Jenner, Hunchie, Orion or Highlander ever again...wait a sec...under your plan we effectively get rid of the regular Highlander? Hmmm...what the hell, I'm game.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

Jihad era is when the IS finally get all of the tech they'd need to directly compete, though. The Light PPC doesn't come out until 3067, and that's essential.

They also had RAC's by 3062 if you want to talk about how to compete. And before you say the Clans had RAC's as well, those were just experimental versions created by CDS already in the Jihad era, so no need to worry about that.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

They also had RAC's by 3062 if you want to talk about how to compete. And before you say the Clans had RAC's as well, those were just experimental versions created by CDS already in the Jihad era, so no need to worry about that.

We already HAVE the unjam funtionality of the RAC-5 in the UACs... cause news flash, UACs are supposed to STAY jammed for the duration of the fight (well it takes 5 minutes for a tech to unjam which might be possible in the middle of a firefight but highly unlikely.) So... basically Clans have already been given highly broken UACs that dont Jam like they are supposed to ON TOP of their other obnoxiously superior technology. But you never hear "purists" complain about that do they... nope cause they are the worst kinds of purists around here, the kind that do not know enough to actually be purists.

[RestosIII]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 13 January 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

We already HAVE the unjam funtionality of the RAC-5 in the UACs... cause news flash, UACs are supposed to STAY jammed for the duration of the fight (well it takes 5 minutes for a tech to unjam which might be possible in the middle of a firefight but highly unlikely.) So... basically Clans have already been given highly broken UACs that dont Jam like they are supposed to ON TOP of their other obnoxiously superior technology. But you never hear "purists" complain about that do they... nope cause they are the worst kinds of purists around here, the kind that do not know enough to actually be purists.

If you want to heavily lower jam chances but make it last an entire match, I'm game for that.

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

They also had RAC's by 3062 if you want to talk about how to compete. And before you say the Clans had RAC's as well, those were just experimental versions created by CDS already in the Jihad era, so no need to worry about that.

RACs aren't that good, though. At best, they would allow the IS to compete with boated cUACs without having to bring as many guns...which is good because they can't bring as many guns anyway. But RACs only help ballistic 'Mechs. They do nothing to close that pop-tarting gap that LPPC and such do.

And really, the IS can compete for dakka until you get to the Assault class; the WHM's problem is not a lack of effective equipment, for example, it's that it has an isXL and that it runs too hot for its role because PGI nerfed 5-class AC heat for everybody and because IS PPCs are still technically too hot for what they have to compete against in their bracket.

[cazidin]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

FedCom Civil War I'd be fine with, but you're taking it too far.

Don't worry. We'll never get to the Jihad age. PGI won't add in new tech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

JoanTheLiar, on 13 January 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Should IIc mechs be a neutral ground use for both inner sphere and clans in faction warfare? I would like to see how the community thinks of the idea..

They are not "middle ground" designs; they are clan mech designs with clan tech and clan equipment.

/Thread

[Lupis Volk]

No 2C mechs are Clan and Clan alone.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

RACs aren't that good

RACs aren't that good

aren't that good

10 tons and 6 crits, just 1 ton and 1 crit more than an UAC/5, with triple the fire rate with a RAC/5. I know I'd load them up in a heartbeat.

[Rogue Jedi]

absolutely not.

the IIC Mechs were Clan redesigns loosly based upon the original chassis, IS should not get them.

however I would have no problem with LIMITED mixed tech being available on IS varients which had Clan tech upgrades available in lore (limited to the exact pieces of clan equipment they fitted in lore)