61 replies to this topic

[Egg Fu]

No

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

1. Gameplay > real life examples. And 1 ton ECM is being too good for its own weight.

2. Arctic Cheetah is but the first of many mechs that will be optimal and have ECM. There are many such variants PGI will release in the future. What then?

1. Okay. ECM is balanced. It denied enemy info, as it should.

2. This is called a slippery slope fallacy. It represents a reality that may never be. ANd What then? We'll still have weak mechs that use ECM that need it.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 14 January 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

1. Okay. ECM is balanced. It denied enemy info, as it should.

2. This is called a slippery slope fallacy. It represents a reality that may never be. ANd What then? We'll still have weak mechs that use ECM that need it.

I do not think ECM is balanced and needs some sort of tuning down. You are worried about weaker mechs needing their ECM.

Then how about just make ECM work on the mounted mech only? I think that's fair on all accounts. As a bonus, LRMs will become less situational, without its own rework.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2017 - 08:09 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

ECM is fine just as it is. There are hard counters to it with CAP/BAP, NARC, TAG, PPC and eyeballs. The benefits of it are diluted by the ability of every Mech in the game to equip Radar Deprivation. It is also one of only two hard counters to "lock on" weapons. Anyone who equips ECM pays a price in DPS or some other area because they chose it instead of an extra laser, heatsink, sensor or ton of ammo.


There are much bigger issues in the game that need addressed before PGI needs to waste time looking at things that are in pretty good shape balance-wise as they are.

Novakaine, on 14 January 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

You have just effectively negated any use for lrm's at all.
Just like just the rolling arty spammageddon of the past.
Potatoes wouldn't use because well potatoes.
And comp groups would just use it as a 12 man rolling ecm shield.
Clankies have a cornucopia of ecm mechs.
IS have a handful of ecm mechs that you rarely see at all.
Hell I can't even get my peeps to carry AMS.
So no us Rocketeers have it hard enough as it is.

There is a bit of propaganda from a Spheriod. The IS has 10 Chassis with ECM including 4 Lights, 3 Mediums, 1 Heavy and 2 Assaults. In addition, they are getting another ECM Light with the Assassin. In comparison, the Clans have 6 chassis with ECM with 3 Lights, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and, only just released, 1 Assault with the Marauder IIC.

Edited by Rampage, 14 January 2017 - 08:28 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Wait for it, wait for it...























NO

[nehebkau]

The6thMessenger, on 14 January 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

What if the ECM have some sort of "battery" when it can only be used a short duration at a time? Like 10s ECM bubble, but then after the gauge runs out, one must wait another 10s for the charge to fill, and during that time the ECM is hard-locked to Counter mode.

If you are having problems with ECM after all the nerfs to it and buffs to BAP ... and UAV and TAG and NARC -- you are really really really doing it wrong. How about you stop going maximum LRM?

[El Bandito]

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

Anyone who equips ECM pays a price in DPS or some other area because they chose it instead of an extra laser, heatsink, sensor or ton of ammo.

I'd be glad to pay THREE tons just to get ECM on the mechs I want. 1 ton for ECM is nothing.

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

There are much bigger issues in the game that need addressed before PGI needs to waste time looking at things that are in pretty good shape balance-wise as they are.

Agree with the fact that there are bigger issues, but disagree with the notion that ECM is balanced.

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

There is a bit of propaganda from a Spheriod. The IS has 10 Chassis with ECM including 4 Lights, 3 Mediums, 1 Heavy and 2 Assaults. In addition, they are getting another ECM Light with the Assassin. In comparison, the Clans have 6 chassis with ECM with 3 Lights, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and, only just released, 1 Assault with the Marauder IIC.

Chassis-wise, yes. However, Clan Omnis can transfer ECM omnipod from variant to variant. So the Clans have the edge on the total number of ECM capable variants.

[Snazzy Dragon]

ECM is only minimally useful and it's limited to a select few mechs.

I mean, if you can't get a lock through ECM, that's what TAG is for

If you brought a NARC you can just NARC the guy with ECM first

BAP/CAP counter ECM

ECM does nothing to hide your mech visually and experienced players are just going to shoot where your components are smoking all over the place anyway, should they see you and not be able to lock on

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Chassis-wise, yes. However, Clan Omnis can transfer ECM omnipod from variant to variant. So the Clans have the edge on the total number of ECM capable variants.

Variants are non distinct for Omnis.

Let's look at those "OP clanners ECM" shall we?

MAD IIC - The variant that get is has very limited layouts for a mech of its size
Hellbringer- No ferro or endo. That like 5 tons, right? So their ECM weighs 6 tons.
Shadow Cat- Remarked as one of the most difficult mechs to play effectively. Tons of space in locked MASC and JJs.
Mist Lynx- Underengined with limited hardpoints
Kit Fox- Underengined
Arctic Cheetah- Oh a good mech

Edited by Snowbluff, 14 January 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

I'd be glad to pay THREE tons just to get ECM on the mechs I want. 1 ton for ECM is nothing.

That would be one less ton of LRM ammo for you.

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Agree with the fact that there are bigger issues, but disagree with the notion that ECM is balanced.

Knowing that you are an avid LRM fan and user, I would expect you to feel that way.

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Chassis-wise, yes. However, Clan Omnis can transfer ECM omnipod from variant to variant. So the Clans have the edge on the total number of ECM capable variants.

While it is true that the Clan Omni Mechs can move the ECM pod around You do pay a price in most cases for doing so by giving up desirable hardpoints. Even then saying that this greatly expands the variants using ECM is mis-leading. One of the Clan lIghts with ECM is the Mist Lynx which is widely considered one of the top 3 worst Mechs in the game. None of the variants are particularly useful. Next you have the Kit Fox which with the exception of a few fanatical fans was widely ignored (at least until the Purifier arrived). There are maybe 1 or 2 decent builds for it. The Arctic Cheetah is the third Light. It is great in its own right but only really runs one build which is boating small lasers. The Medium is the ShadowCat which is best known as a erPPC poptarter. It does not stand out beyond that. The Heavy is the Hellbringer. This is the one Clan Mech where I do not feel you make a sacrifice by taking the ECM omni pod on any variant because it also comes with three energy hardpoints. That is only a problem if you want to focus on ballistics or missiles. As a result all Hellbringers are either Laser vomit or some type of ballistic-energy mixture. With ECM the Hellbringer is a Tier 2 or 3 Mech. Without ECM it would be mediocre at best with the ability to carry only enough weapons to match the 15 ton lighter HBK IIC,

The Assault is a BattleMech.

Taking all this into consideration, I would still say that a statement that Clan has a significant superiority in availability of ECM is not factual.

Edited by Rampage, 14 January 2017 - 08:57 AM.

[PurplePuke]

Maybe the role of ECM could be changed to make it graduated. Just like Targeting Computers. From ECM1 up to ECM 5, with more powerful effects accompanied with greater weight and more critical slots.

That could be fun.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Snowbluff, on 14 January 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Arctic Cheetah- Oh a good mech

Missing that truedub heatsink makes it cook itself too, but clan ECM will be a real problem in terms of its weight/slot saving should the Blood Asp make it into the game. Multiple variants have ECM and JJ capability on an assault with high mounted ballistics. That's a nasty mix.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 14 January 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Variants are non distinct for Omnis.

Let's look at those "OP clanners ECM" shall we?

MAD IIC - The variant that get is has very limited layouts for a mech of its size
Hellbringer- No ferro or endo. That like 5 tons, right? So their ECM weighs 6 tons.
Shadow Cat- Remarked as one of the most difficult mechs to play effectively. Tons of space in locked MASC and JJs.
Mist Lynx- Underengined with limited hardpoints
Kit Fox- Underengined
Arctic Cheetah- Oh a good mech

1. No where in this thread anyone said OP Clanners.

2. I was correcting him of the actual quantity of Clan mechs that can mount the ECM. Not quality.

[El Bandito]

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

That would be one less ton of LRM ammo for you.

A trade I would be happy to agree to. Cause ECM is worth easily thrice that.

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Knowing that you are an avid LRM fan and user, I would expect you to feel that way.

You are behind times. Ever since the Kodiaks came out for C-Bills last year, I have not touched LRMs.

[Novakaine]

Rampage, on 14 January 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

ECM is fine just as it is. There are hard counters to it with CAP/BAP, NARC, TAG, PPC and eyeballs. The benefits of it are diluted by the ability of every Mech in the game to equip Radar Deprivation. It is also one of only two hard counters to "lock on" weapons. Anyone who equips ECM pays a price in DPS or some other area because they chose it instead of an extra laser, heatsink, sensor or ton of ammo.


There are much bigger issues in the game that need addressed before PGI needs to waste time looking at things that are in pretty good shape balance-wise as they are.





There is a bit of propaganda from a Spheriod. The IS has 10 Chassis with ECM including 4 Lights, 3 Mediums, 1 Heavy and 2 Assaults. In addition, they are getting another ECM Light with the Assassin. In comparison, the Clans have 6 chassis with ECM with 3 Lights, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and, only just released, 1 Assault with the Marauder IIC.

Seriously man how many Inner Sphere ECM mechs do you see in the field any given game?
Just like AMS IS pilot seem to loath them.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Novakaine, on 14 January 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Seriously man how many Inner Sphere ECM mechs do you see in the field any given game?
Just like AMS IS pilot seem to loath them.

Maybe a Raven 3L that the team blames for losing

Atlas DDC

wow that was easy and fast

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

1. No where in this thread anyone said OP Clanners.

2. I was correcting him of the actual quantity of Clan mechs that can mount the ECM. Not quality.

Oh there's no balance problem? Why does this thread exist again?

I mean, you quoted one of my posts out of context already. I'll make any point I please.

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 January 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Maybe a Raven 3L that the team blames for losing

Atlas DDC

wow that was easy and fast

Locust-PB! :0

Occasionally I'll see a Griffin with ECM as well.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Snowbluff, on 14 January 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Locust-PB! :0

Occasionally I'll see a Griffin with ECM as well.

Novakaine specified seeing them-- good PB pilots won't let that happen

All the griffins I've seen have just been XL checked and die instantly. I think they should stay in scouting at this point. :/

[Cy Mitchell]

Novakaine, on 14 January 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Seriously man how many Inner Sphere ECM mechs do you see in the field any given game?
Just like AMS IS pilot seem to loath them.

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 January 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Maybe a Raven 3L that the team blames for losing

Atlas DDC

wow that was easy and fast

I only play QP solo queue so maybe my experience is different but in addition to the ones that Snazzy and Snowbluff listed, I have seen a sneaky Commando Com-2D, a pain in a$$ Phoenix Hawk PXH-2 and a Cyclops CP-11-P in the few games I have played in December and January. I know I have seen that Archer hero a few times too and I really have not been playing all that much due to the holidays and travel.

[reflectorjones]

Already nerfed into oblivion, definitely a good idea to nerf it even more.