102 replies to this topic

[Cementi]

Wow Mystre you should change your name to cherry picker as you completely edited out/ignored the part where I said the mobility of jumpjets needed a significant buff.

Fairly standard forumite practice though.

I personally do not think pop tarting is broken as it is. The problem is jump jets as is are broken in a they are terrible kind of way. If you buff them to where they should be then pop tarting would be an issue.

Jump brawling is not even a thing right now as targets using jjs in a brawl are moving so slow it's like ***** shooting in duck hunt. What I suggest would actually improve your mobility making it a better defensive maneuver.

Also not getting the Sokar reference. Most likely irrelevant anyway.

Edited by Cementi, 16 January 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Pika]

Pop tarting? POP TARTING!?

Trust me I'd take this sorry excuse for poptarting any day over how it used to be.
Then again PTing is more a map design issue than anything else.

Edited by Pika, 16 January 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Cementi, on 16 January 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Wow Mystre you should change your name to cherry picker as you completely edited out/ignored the part where I said the mobility of jumpjets needed a significant buff.

Fairly standard forumite practice though.

I personally do not think pop tarting is broken as it is. The problem is jump jets as is are broken in a they are terrible kind of way. If you buff them to where they should be then pop tarting would be an issue.

Which is why I bring up Firing On The Move... that is how you fix jumpjets so they work the way they are supposed to but prevent "poptarting" from being an issue. But since I have to keep quoting that Rule... it reinforcing my point that people are as a whole too ignorant about the fundamentals to be talking on this forum about Game Balance.

[Cementi]

Ok why is s k e e t shooting blocked? Ya I'm bypassing the filter as it is way to sensitive.

Oh I get it zul I just do not think they can code it to do what you want.

[Mystere]

Cementi, on 16 January 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Wow Mystre you should change your name to cherry picker as you completely edited out/ignored the part where I said the mobility of jumpjets needed a significant buff.

Fairly standard forumite practice though.

I personally do not think pop tarting is broken as it is. The problem is jump jets as is are broken in a they are terrible kind of way. If you buff them to where they should be then pop tarting would be an issue.

Jump brawling is not even a thing right now as targets using jjs in a brawl are moving so slow it's like ***** shooting in duck hunt. What I suggest would actually improve your mobility making it a better defensive maneuver.

I was specifically commenting on the item I quoted, regardless of all the buffs you mentioned around it. So no, I was not cherry picking. Your suggestion is something I really object to.

Just because jump brawling is not a thing for you does not mean it is also not a thing for everybody else. I myself like to use JJs offensively and not just defensively like -- apparently according to you -- everyone else.

Cementi, on 16 January 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Also not getting the Sokar reference. Most likely irrelevant anyway.

Sokar --> Satan --> Hell

Requiemking, on 16 January 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

You know, this could be fixed if JJs weren't kept in their current, awful state. That way, IS could have some of their old Poptart Kings back, like the Victor and the Highlander.....

Eventhough many did not use it as such, my Heavy Metal was a jump brawler during it's heyday. Now it's just in cold storage.

GabrielSun, on 16 January 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

The only times I've seen pop tarts they have been blown out of the air or have been legged. It's a slow even arc and if you have half a brain you can target and track easily.

And which is why some of us jump outside of the enemy's angles of vision.

I_AM_ZUUL, on 15 January 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

20T mech =/= Brawling

Please explain.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[FupDup]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 15 January 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

20T mech =/= Brawling

The Mist Lynx is 25 tons.

Try again.

[Amsro]

Bring JJ back to life IMO.

I miss when highlanders could fly.

Now for 10 tons I get this.



Also I havn't really noticed any "poptarting" maybe a jump snipe or two but nothing a good push won't fix.

[MechB Kotare]

Pika, on 16 January 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

...
Then again PTing is more a map design issue than anything else.

...or JJ funcionality design issue.

The fact that you dont give a chance for laser based builds to return fire, because Laser durations are so freaking long, its only a JJ design issue. There should (always should've been) a risk of exposure when Jumpsniping (Poptarting). Considering you can manage how much you elevate yourself, shoot in a second, and then fall behind cover, without exposing yourself, i believe (always believed) that JJ funcionality in MWO (comparing to previous titles like MW4, MW3 and most importantly MWLL) is a huge fail, and needs a huge rework, if game designers want to keep mech's jumpsniping capabilities without chance of giving players ability to abuse all the advantages current system has to offer.

Map design, and re****ed bunny hoping included.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 16 January 2017 - 12:41 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Is Jump-Streak-ing considered poptarting?

[Snazzy Dragon]

The6thMessenger, on 16 January 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Is Jump-Streak-ing considered poptarting?

Brawl poptarting is a thing but it's pretty niche and usually the JJs are there to exploit the bunny hop on certain mechs

[C E Dwyer]

Catra Lanis, on 15 January 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

The problem is that once it becomes a viable tactic everybody will do it. I played MW4 long ago. The teams positioned themselves behind a ridge and took turns bouncing up and down, nobody did anythingelse. Besides being boring it looked silly.

It's currently used by the Summoner at which it excels, very viable for the Night Gyr, Timberwolf, even the Executioner with masc can do it, all with a bigger alpha than the Victor, Cataphract, and the same as the Highlander.

The three mechs that have been used as an excuse for nerfing jump jets, two with lower hard points than the mechs above

All these clan mechs are capable of it partly because of the 'disadvantage' of locked JJ's the size,weight of the weapons, and the hard point placement.

There is no practical counter for this until class 1 and 2 JJ's are given a big buff or a big nerf so they are next to useless again.

The thought of a Poptart Direstar is less disturbing to me, than the I.S mechs having no practical counter

Edited by Cathy, 16 January 2017 - 02:31 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

My problem with poptarting isn't that it's so effective, it's that it makes me wish jump jets were used more for extra mobility for maneuvering and brawling instead of static, up-and-down jump sniping.

I wish the most popular use of jump jets was to equip a big engine, as many jump jets as possible, go really fast and brawl while jumping around. Or use jump jets to quickly move across the map and flank the enemy team.

More MW:LL, less AH-64 Longbow.

[Mystere]

Tristan Winter, on 16 January 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

My problem with poptarting isn't that it's so effective, it's that it makes me wish jump jets were used more for extra mobility for maneuvering and brawling instead of static, up-and-down jump sniping.

I wish the most popular use of jump jets was to equip a big engine, as many jump jets as possible, go really fast and brawl while jumping around. Or use jump jets to quickly move across the map and flank the enemy team.

More MW:LL, less AH-64 Longbow.

Giving JJs a significant forward vector should take care of that.

[NighthawK1337]

Personally I don't notice rampant poptarting nowadays. The only ones I see anymore are Novas, Hunchbacks, and Shadowcats. Mechs with 4 to 5 JJs. I don't think it's a problem anymore since Poptarting with the current JJs is so slow that you'll lose trade a lot of times unless you're in really really really good position(and moving while firing, don't forget the imporant part) and you're not getting noticed. Otherwise, hill humping seems the way to go.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 16 January 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tristan Winter, on 16 January 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

My problem with poptarting isn't that it's so effective, it's that it makes me wish jump jets were used more for extra mobility for maneuvering and brawling instead of static, up-and-down jump sniping.

I wish the most popular use of jump jets was to equip a big engine, as many jump jets as possible, go really fast and brawl while jumping around. Or use jump jets to quickly move across the map and flank the enemy team.

More MW:LL, less AH-64 Longbow.

Or use jump-jets to compensate for an overall slow run-speed, allowing many of those lumbering, brawl-range IS 'Mechs to be used properly...

[Bud Crue]

Tristan Winter, on 16 January 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

My problem with poptarting isn't that it's so effective, it's that it makes me wish jump jets were used more for extra mobility for maneuvering and brawling instead of static, up-and-down jump sniping.

I wish the most popular use of jump jets was to equip a big engine, as many jump jets as possible, go really fast and brawl while jumping around. Or use jump jets to quickly move across the map and flank the enemy team.

More MW:LL, less AH-64 Longbow.

Change the mechanics so that forward momentum is maintained and suddenly JJ are way more effective in a brawl. Give them vectoring, and I think I might just...something.

[Requiemking]

Bud Crue, on 16 January 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Change the mechanics so that forward momentum is maintained and suddenly JJ are way more effective in a brawl. Give them vectoring, and I think I might just...something.

Or, you know, have them launch you forwards at a 45 degree angle, with the burntime being 30m x the number of JJ equipped.

[Bud Crue]

Requiemking, on 16 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Or, you know, have them launch you forwards at a 45 degree angle, with the burntime being 30m x the number of JJ equipped.

Well if you insist and all, I won't complain.

But seriously the mechanic whereby when you land after running full tilt and then jumping -but you are now stock still- feels anything but immersive and it is a detriment to actually using JJ defensively.

I don't think we will ever get active vectoring and if we did it wouldn't be useful on the vast majority of hover jet builds, But hey, a guy can dream.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Eventhough many did not use it as such, my Heavy Metal was a jump brawler during it's heyday. Now it's just in cold storage. Posted Image

Amen!!

The thrill of jumping in the middle of a group, have them turn around and start firing at me as I exit left stage with them trying to track me, with lots of friendly damage and a kill here and there.. If only we had the friendly fire penalties back then

[King Kahuna]

I personally prefer the maple and brown sugar poptarts. Unfortunately I have to get up and leave in a rush some times. I find the M&BS ones do the best if you have to eat them cold. Hot is much better but you got to do what you have to do.

In game...no big deal?