18 replies to this topic

[P]

Hail to you Mechwarriors, I am P
and today i come to you with a simple questions.
The comparison between the CTF-1X and the CTF-3L?
Put aside Names and 30% Cbill Bonus,
How are they different, and how will their quirks affects the Builds.
I would love to know which Builds best suited to which Variants.
And how is one variant superior to the other?


CTF-1X Has
1Dakka, 5Pew², 1 AMS

+45% on Acce/Dece Rate
+15% Turn Rate
No Bonus on Yaw Rate
No MASC Module

+22 Structure Bonus for CT
+15 Structure Bonus for LT/RT/LL/RL
+11 Structure Bonus for LA/RA

+20% Dakka Velocity
+20% Dakka Cooldown
No Bonus on Dakka Range

+10% Pew² Cooldown
-10% Pew² Heat Gen
-15% Pew² Duration
_____________________________________________

Meanwhile,
CTF-3L has
the same 1Dakka, 5Pew², 1 AMS

No Bonus on Acce/Dece Rate
No Bonus on Turn Rate
+25% Yaw Rate
+1 MASC Module to crank up the speed for limited amount of time

+22 Structure Bonus for CT
+15 Structure Bonus for LT/RT/LL/RL
+11 Structure Bonus for LA/RA

No Bonus on Dakka Velocity
+15% Dakka Cooldown
+10% Dakka Range

No Bonus on Pew² Cooldown
No Bonus on Pew² Heat Gen
No Bonus on Pew² Duration
-5% on Wub² Heat Gen


I will be posting this on multiple thread and board to seek Opinions
Thank you and good hunting.
Please do let me know if I missed out something.

Edited by P, 17 January 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Metus regem]

Well for starters...

CTF-1X has an intial cost of 5.95m C-bills, while the CTF-3L(L) is not available for C-bills (yet).

When it comes right down to it, they are more or less the same mech, just one comes with tech 2 kit out of the box, while one comes loaded with tech 1 kit out of the box.

[Bud Crue]

Agility bonus vs MASC and worse weapons quirks.
That's it.

[TercieI]

Neither is worth your time, but one pays you 30% more for wasting your time?

[Bud Crue]

This thread kinda triggered me -again.

The OP is asking the difference between two 70 Ton mechs, each of which has a whopping 5 energy hard points and 1 ballistic. Of those 6 points, 4 are not much better than waist high. So to me the real question should not be about what are the ever so slight difference and ideal builds for these to worthies, but why are they even still in the game without some sort of MASSIVE buffs (respectively) or a full remodel; when there is a mech like the Warhammer 6R that is vastly superior to either with 6 energy points and 2 ballistic, of which all but 2 of the energy points are higher than ALL of the Phracts ?

Last time I said Phracts need help, folks came out of the wood work to tell me they are "fine". They are not fine. They are crap and they need help.

Edited by Bud Crue, 17 January 2017 - 04:29 PM.

[Daemon04]

1x outright the best so far. good quirks to assist your cataphracting businesses.
followed by 2x which i think has one more module slot to assist a weapon of your choice.
and last id go with the 3l. super fast wubs machine.
try cakes and my new wave meta and your opponents shall fear your pancake.
exact same builds on 1x and 2x.

1x-2x = http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23c4a913db8e547
3l = http://mwo.smurfy-ne...41ecd6866989a04

Edited by Daemon04, 17 January 2017 - 05:10 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Metus regem, on 17 January 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Well for starters...

CTF-1X has an intial cost of 5.95m C-bills, while the CTF-3L(L) is not available for C-bills (yet).

When it comes right down to it, they are more or less the same mech, just one comes with tech 2 kit out of the box, while one comes loaded with tech 1 kit out of the box.

just this, its likely to get Buffed when its out for C-Bills Later this year,

Bud Crue, on 17 January 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

This thread kinda triggered me -again.

The OP is asking the difference between two 70 Ton mechs, each of which has a whopping 5 energy hard points and 1 ballistic. Of those 6 points, 4 are not much better than waist high. So to me the real question should not be about what are the ever so slight difference and ideal builds for these to worthies, but why are they even still in the game without some sort of MASSIVE buffs (respectively) or a full remodel; when there is a mech like the Warhammer 6R that is vastly superior to either with 6 energy points and 2 ballistic, of which all but 2 of the energy points are higher than ALL of the Phracts ?

Last time I said Phracts need help, folks came out of the wood work to tell me they are "fine". They are not fine. They are crap and they need help.

um high mounts arnt Everything,
in Rural Areas with hills and things sure high mounts are great,
but in Urban Areas that have lots of buildings High Mounts matter much less,

this is how a Mech like the NVA can Rock in Close Range Urban Environments,
but a SHC with ERPPCs will likely beat a NVA with ERPPCs in Rural Areas,

[Deathlike]

Bud Crue, on 17 January 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

This thread kinda triggered me -again.

The OP is asking the difference between two 70 Ton mechs, each of which has a whopping 5 energy hard points and 1 ballistic. Of those 6 points, 4 are not much better than waist high. So to me the real question should not be about what are the ever so slight difference and ideal builds for these to worthies, but why are they even still in the game without some sort of MASSIVE buffs (respectively) or a full remodel; when there is a mech like the Warhammer 6R that is vastly superior to either with 6 energy points and 2 ballistic, of which all but 2 of the energy points are higher than ALL of the Phracts ?

Last time I said Phracts need help, folks came out of the wood work to tell me they are "fine". They are not fine. They are crap and they need help.

I don't recall ever really saying they are fine.

I've had to have ridiculous discussions with the lovable Gyrok about how the Summoner was better than them (particularly the CTF-3D) due to Clan XL (this is way before there were quirks) and since the Hoverjet™ revolution (or devolution) they haven't been relevant since.

It's not like the CTF-4X fared well since the Jagermech either.

Lostech™.

[stealthraccoon]

Once I painted my CTF-3L(C) with proper Liao colors it ran quite well.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...affabc29d6d085b[/smurfy]

[Spheroid]

I don't recommend committing yourself to the Cataphract. Its going to end in a messy divorce.

I found the 3L completely underwhelming. The 0XP is serviceable. So many other choices at 70 tons though.

[oldradagast]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 January 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

um high mounts arnt Everything,
in Rural Areas with hills and things sure high mounts are great,
but in Urban Areas that have lots of buildings High Mounts matter much less,

this is how a Mech like the NVA can Rock in Close Range Urban Environments,
but a SHC with ERPPCs will likely beat a NVA with ERPPCs in Rural Areas,

Sorry, but no.

There is literally NO situation in the game where having low mounts is better than high ones. Low mounts can be "acceptable" or "made to work" in a brawl or when side-peeking, but high mounts can work in the same environment AND are good for peaking over cover. Look at all the top mechs in the game, and nearly every single one of them has powerful high weapon mounts. The only exceptions might be some light mechs (which mostly brawl and are so small and fast high mounts don't matter as much) and some extreme ballistic builds that win through overwhelming DPS and aren't made for peeking anyway.

The only way low mounts would be good would be in some nutty cave environment with a low-hanging ceiling and stalactites hanging from it, blocking high weapons mounts, sort of like upside down hills. Other than that non-existent map, high mounts are always better. The Cataphract, having at most 2 high energy mounts with all other mounts being astoundingly low for a 70-tonner, is junk these days.

[Davegt27]

saw this today

[stealthraccoon]

Spheroid, on 17 January 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

I don't recommend committing yourself to the Cataphract. Its going to end in a messy divorce.

I found the 3L completely underwhelming. The 0XP is serviceable. So many other choices at 70 tons though.

The only reason I have suffered through the pain of driving a heavy mech is faction loyalty, and the fact that two of the three I own were free! If the darn things weren't so broad and huge - and the gorilla arms... if I got points for shooting the ground.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 January 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

just this, its likely to get Buffed when its out for C-Bills Later this year,


um high mounts arnt Everything,
in Rural Areas with hills and things sure high mounts are great,
but in Urban Areas that have lots of buildings High Mounts matter much less,

this is how a Mech like the NVA can Rock in Close Range Urban Environments,
but a SHC with ERPPCs will likely beat a NVA with ERPPCs in Rural Areas,

Nova is good in close range because it can boat 12 small pulse lasers (24DPS) effectively. Low mounts hinder anything to do with favorable trading by using cover rather than extreme DPS.

Lots of buildings also allows high mounts to be better, since the person with high mounts can peek through holes, and if they have jump jets they can poptart effectively without exposing much, and they have an advantage on edges since they can see enemies and fire at them rather than seeing the enemy and having their shots hit the edge.

In general a Shadow Cat that evades a Nova is going to kill the Nova since the Nova can't get in range. If the Shadow Cat doesn't make proper use of its MASC and kiting potential then it dies to the Nova's overwhelming force. The low mounts and low range force you to rely on the mistakes of the enemy to do anything at all while the Shadow Cat is the one with the ability to control the battle.

[Ghostrider0067]

Spheroid, on 17 January 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

I don't recommend committing yourself to the Cataphract. Its going to end in a messy divorce.

I found the 3L completely underwhelming. The 0XP is serviceable. So many other choices at 70 tons though.

The 'phract in any variety is still a highly viable and tough ride. I have no shame whatsoever in my favored heavy and have laid waste to so many other choices at 70 tons... and more. As for the 3L, it's a good mech and the MASC does help out significantly for hill poking and surprising mechs who think they've got you as an easy target. The 0XP, while helped by ECM, is hurt by low arm mounts. Still, it is useful just as the others.

stealthraccoon, on 17 January 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Once I painted my CTF-3L(C) with proper Liao colors it ran quite well.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...affabc29d6d085b[/smurfy]

Liao until the end, brother.

[P]

the low mount high mount discussion reflects to me how im an urban spawler
since most of the meks that i done well most of em has gorrillaaaa arms
crows, novas, phracts, Centy, heck even gaygoyle + EXE
no wonder i love city brawl so much 0:

[El Bandito]

Pharacts are phraked up. Don't buy any.

[xengk]

Only phrat I have is the 3L(L). Ran it as a fast skirmisher, using MASC to boost in and out of engagement.
It doesn't have the armour to brawl or be a front liner, similar to the Summoner. Either run it fast or use it as long ranger support.

CTF-3L(L)
CTF-3L(L)

Edited by xengk, 18 January 2017 - 02:55 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

MASC is 4 tons. Quirks are free.

As a rule of thumb, it's better to avoid MASC in MWO, if you can.