13 replies to this topic

[Trunok]

I mean, the STD and the XL, XL takes up some slots but weight less, like, a lot, what if we diminish that difference buffing the STD engine to also weight less than it is now, not as light as the XL, but something that could justify the crit slot~~weight that both engines differ, for example let's say that each slot takes 1 ton, 4 slots on the clan mean 4 ton 6 on IS mean 6 (duh i know) and this does not differ's from engine to engine, then you could have the choose about more crit space? Like for heatsinks, or less tonnage? And then in IS this would not affect so much the loss of an XL to a STD.

So XL stay as what it is, but instead of giving such a big advantage to CLAN, it would only give them 4 tons, a minimal buff like endo or ferrous (That could take less crits now for both IS and CLAN) and for IS it would give more pod space (and with the changes a some free weight), this would diminish the gap in assaults, making now most of them viable, CLAN would still had advantage over alphas, better crit slots and tonnage on weapons, while IS have some weapons mechanics that are better like lurms and single shots AC's. This would make them very balanced in my perspective, and i can still see the clan tech being superior, at least in difference gameplay style and would feel objectively better, while they are just different, CLAN optimized for map combat, picking and alphas, IS optimized for mech consistency design and heat. Also it would be better for new players to understand the difference and see the balance.

It's just an idea, what you guys think?

Edited by Trunok, 16 January 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

They don't want to mess with tonnages because it messes with stock builds. Most stock mechs would now be several tons underweight.

Best way to make STD engines more relevant is to give them other buffs. Structure, mobility, heat, etc.

[Trunok]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 January 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

They don't want to mess with tonnages because it messes with stock builds. Most stock mechs would now be several tons underweight.

Best way to make STD engines more relevant is to give them other buffs. Structure, mobility, heat, etc.

Let's build all of them togheter than, that would be fun.

EDIT:

For example, uping the current engines stock of them wouldnt solve the problem? They would come off the store faster in speed, done.

Edited by Trunok, 16 January 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Standard engines could improve structure...since the space that would otherwise be used for engine slots is not being used.

[Trunok]

W A R K H A N, on 16 January 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

Standard engines could improve structure...since the space that would otherwise be used for engine slots is not being used.

So STD=Tankiness, that would be great!

[Bombast]

Trunok, on 16 January 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:

Let's build all of them togheter than, that would be fun.

EDIT:

For example, uping the current engines stock of them wouldnt solve the problem? They would come off the store faster in speed, done.

Unlike other table top games, Battletech/Mechwarrior's equipment stats have been tightly intertwined between the lore and gameplay. It's difficult to separate the two, unlike, say, Warhammer 40K, where it's generally understood that the lore and the game take place in different universes, and so changing one doesn't mess with the other.

Making changes to equipment stats while preserving the original intent of the weapon is fairly easy. Cutting and pasting engines and changing the speed of all canon mechs is a bit different.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Bombast, on 16 January 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Unlike other table top games, Battletech/Mechwarrior's equipment stats have been tightly intertwined between the lore and gameplay. It's difficult to separate the two, unlike, say, Warhammer 40K, where it's generally understood that the lore and the game take place in different universes, and so changing one doesn't mess with the other.

Making changes to equipment stats while preserving the original intent of the weapon is fairly easy. Cutting and pasting engines and changing the speed of all canon mechs is a bit different.

Since there are NO Gyros or Engine Crits.... then anything that is referencing the "Lore" or the "Rules" is invalid as a premise. They already chucked that out the window but kept the Loss ST equal death for isXL which causes the biggest imbalance in the game. So that should be chucked too... or Engine Crits and Gyros need to be introduced.

also for clarification.... WH40K all takes place in the same universe. Stats are just markers for how we play, but then nothing in WH40K is Canon (except the Horus Heresy series) so they can and do change it freely since none of it is "real" to start with. Just a story of events not the actual events as they take place... one of the things that makes it my favorite Lore universe.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 17 January 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

I think that there isn't anything that is more against the lore than balance.

[Karl Marlow]

Why are people trying to worry about the lore flag when it comes to engines all of a sudden? In lore you have to have an engine with a rating equal to a multiple of your mechs tonnage.

[Karl Streiger]

It would don't break the lore at all.
and the engine discussion should not only be used for XL vs STD but also for the weight.

Did anybody of you considered the weight of a 400er engine?
What would have happened when it would have weighted for example 10-13 tons less? 39.5-42.5t is still very heavy isn't it?

I tell you the difference is the to hit modificator for a heavy armored target - Charger or Atlas with a 400 STD would be much harder targets with much better defense and still some offensive capabilities that outgun must lights and mediums in 3025.

however in MWO? Difference between a 320 or 400 engine is miniscule - better speed might be better but it doesn't outweight 30tons.

[Dimento Graven]

I think the STD engine buff (for both IS and Clan STD engines) should be that the STD gets more base heat sinks (not the default 10 as in TT rules, but somewhere higher than it is now).

But, that's just me. The STD engine is an engine designed for cooler run time, the XL is an engine designed for faster run time.

Call me crazy, but that would seem to make the most sense without critically over power it.

[1453 R]

Generally, any question that starts with "would it be against lore to [X]?" can be answered with "Yes. Yes, it would."

In this case, decreasing STD engine weight would not critically break the game (no suddenly-invalid stock fits), but it would, as stated, leave them all underweight by several tons which wouldn't make a lot of sense. Most folks favor durability buffs from STD engines, instead, to reinforce the "XL is fast, STD is tanky" split commonly seen pre-Clan. You'd need a lot of tanky to make STDs measure up to the current cXL, but that's sort of okay, because it'd be a TTK-increasing measure for those folks who believe that TTK should be measured in hours instead of minutes.

One common pie-in-the-sky option discussed for STD buffs is something like a 25% structure increase across all three torsos, allowing the STD guy to soak up a significant amount of additional punishment especially with good damage rolling. That seems to be the general direction the Cuss-Sensus figures should be gone. Not that Piranha listens to the Cuss-Sensus, but hey.

[cazidin]

W A R K H A N, on 16 January 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

Standard engines could improve structure...since the space that would otherwise be used for engine slots is not being used.

While I'm not opposed to that as an idea to buff standard engines I, personally, feel that it doesn't go far enough nor does it address the problem of standard engines being outright inferior due to their weight. You're losing a lot of speed and agility, and thus I believe the best fix would be an agility buff to standard engines. XL provide the best top speed, but Standard offers superior turning and acceleration.

[mogs01gt]

At this point, who cares about lore. Balancing the game is more important.