66 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Devious Dog, on 17 January 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

The King Crab is deceptively bad.

This, really. I mean, it sounds like it'd be awesome, but those Ballistic hardpoints are soooooo low AND wide that it's really challenging to use them well. And without those, it's just a bog standard 100t assault with MASSIVE side torsos.

I love it's looks, and had fun with it, but it's one of those assaults I like to see on the OpFor as it's so easy to chop up from a distance, and even more vulnerable than usual if you've got any kind of elevation against it.

The KC pilot simply cannot protect vulnerable torsos, and as a giant, clumsy 100t mech that's a severe flaw.

[The6thMessenger]

Wintersdark, on 17 January 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

This, really. I mean, it sounds like it'd be awesome, but those Ballistic hardpoints are soooooo low AND wide that it's really challenging to use them well. And without those, it's just a bog standard 100t assault with MASSIVE side torsos.

I love it's looks, and had fun with it, but it's one of those assaults I like to see on the OpFor as it's so easy to chop up from a distance, and even more vulnerable than usual if you've got any kind of elevation against it.

The KC pilot simply cannot protect vulnerable torsos, and as a giant, clumsy 100t mech that's a severe flaw.

Well, maybe a paradigm shift is in order? Maybe you're not supposed to protect the vulnerable torso, you're supposed to dish out the most damage in your ephemeral life?

That's how i run it, sure i torso twist and arm shield to spread damage, but if nothing else works i simply fight to the death.

[Wintersdark]

The6thMessenger, on 17 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Well, maybe a paradigm shift is in order? Maybe you're not supposed to protect the vulnerable torso, you're supposed to dish out the most damage in your ephemeral life?

That's how i run it, sure i torso twist and arm shield to spread damage, but if nothing else works i simply fight to the death.

Unrelated.

It can sure be fun, but it remains bad. That there are ways to have fun and be moderately successful with it doesn't change that.

My comment was mostly just agreement with DD that it's kind of "stealth bad" in that it's a much worse mech in practice than it appears to be, nothing more or less.

[The6thMessenger]

Wintersdark, on 17 January 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

Unrelated.

It can sure be fun, but it remains bad. That there are ways to have fun and be moderately successful with it doesn't change that.

By what measure? Do you expect a Dire Wolf to scout? And because of that it sucks at scouting, it's a bad mech? Do you expect a Locust to spearhead charges and burst a massive alpha? To tank immense damage even? And because it's eviscerated with a good alpha it's automatically a bad mech?

If you judge the fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing it's stupid.

Now i'm not saying that bad mechs don't exist, that there are flawless mechs, nor King Crab is the best mech evar -- i still do think that it does need armor buffs to compensate, but maybe it's (King Crab) deceptively bad by not being used properly? If it has low arms, maybe they are best for something else other than hill humping? Maybe you're supposed to cover for those weaknesses with skill, and then the mech would shine?

You (rhetorical you) could mull over what the mech can't do, or you can celebrate it for what it can do.

Wintersdark, on 17 January 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

The KC pilot simply cannot protect vulnerable torsos, and as a giant, clumsy 100t mech that's a severe flaw.

Wintersdark, on 17 January 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

My comment was mostly just agreement with DD that it's kind of "stealth bad" in that it's a much worse mech in practice than it appears to be, nothing more or less.

And likewise, my comment, is just a comment. If it's a mech worse in practice than it appears to be, maybe the "practice" should be different. Just that.

[Hit the Deck]

SlyJJ, on 17 January 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

As the title suggests, you'd think the allure of being able to run dual AC20s could be seen in some way shape or form as an advantage (or at least fun), but this mech seems to be forever sidelined as a quickplay mech, never to be seen in group and never to be seen in faction play because with the weight it consumes, it just sucks too much.
...

RestosIII, on 17 January 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Honestly, if you're running dual AC/20's as IS, I always preferred BoomJagers/Riflemen.

IMO dual AC/20 is better done on the Jagermech for speed (but fragile) like Restos said or on the Warhammer WHM-6R for additional firepower from the Medium Lasers (but slow and hot - still, faster than the KGC build).

Dual AC/20 WHM-6R: WHM-6R

Edited by Hit the Deck, 17 January 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[SlyJJ]

The6thMessenger, on 17 January 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

By what measure? Do you expect a Dire Wolf to scout? And because of that it sucks at scouting, it's a bad mech? Do you expect a Locust to spearhead charges and burst a massive alpha? To tank immense damage even? And because it's eviscerated with a good alpha it's automatically a bad mech?

If you judge the fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing it's stupid.

Now i'm not saying that bad mechs don't exist, that there are flawless mechs, nor King Crab is the best mech evar -- i still do think that it does need armor buffs to compensate, but maybe it's (King Crab) deceptively bad by not being used properly? If it has low arms, maybe they are best for something else other than hill humping? Maybe you're supposed to cover for those weaknesses with skill, and then the mech would shine?

You (rhetorical you) could mull over what the mech can't do, or you can celebrate it for what it can do.



And likewise, my comment, is just a comment. If it's a mech worse in practice than it appears to be, maybe the "practice" should be different. Just that.

I get where you're going with this, the problem is that any IS mech that's not a missle boat really needs to get in close. Perhaps the 6ac2 dakka build can do a little damage, but that's mostly because of how far away it can shoot.

I think the king crab is support through and through- but its got such few weapons to select from

[Y E O N N E]

SlyJJ, on 17 January 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

the problem is that any IS mech that's not a missle boat really needs to get in close.

wat

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 January 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

wat

AFAIK, He's assuming that support mechs, like LRM boats are best used from a distance.

That's potato pug thinking if you ask me.

SlyJJ, on 17 January 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

I get where you're going with this, the problem is that any IS mech that's not a missle boat really needs to get in close. Perhaps the 6ac2 dakka build can do a little damage, but that's mostly because of how far away it can shoot.

I think the king crab is support through and through- but its got such few weapons to select from

Assuming that you're referring to 450m of distance since it's usually the best distance LRMs are used. Then again the AC2 bit, you might be reffering to 800m and beyond. Yes KGC is slow, but that doesn't mean you would be really far from the fight, that you'd just sit behind and lurm, or hurl long-range projectiles or lasers from afar -- but being support does not mean that you'd be far behind the front lines, it just means that you append your team's firepower, somehow. And that can work by lurming, or shooting with them via lasers and cannons, and srms too, especially sharing armor.

Hell, i even spearhead charges with: KGC STD325(3 DHS): 2x AC20 + 2x SRM6A + 2x ML -- it doesn't always work, but its devastating, and more if it works.

You're thinking too far, too close, and unimaginative. It's an assault mech, why wouldn't you put the most and or biggest weapons in there?

Hows about 4x AC5 + 3x LRM5 + 3x ML? What about 450m skirmish: STD325 3x LL + 2x AC10? Hows about 450m specialization Frigate, XL350 2x AC10 + 2x LL + TAG + 4x LRM5 (also endorsed in my signature)? Standard Dakka for mid range? 4x AC5 + 3x ML + 3x SRM4 hybrid dakka brawler?

The listed builds are by no means the best builds, but rather i just want to show you that King Crab has many builds, and you're just limiting yourself.

tl;dr, far and close is wrong, find the right distance.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 17 January 2017 - 09:29 PM.

[Amsro]

Many options with the King Crab, may a build or two work for you!

Couple of my best are;

Dual Gauss + Triple LPL
Dual Gauss + Quad MPL + Quad SRM4
Dual UAC5 + Dual AC5 + Dual AC2

Big Slow Beast. STD 300.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

SlyJJ, on 17 January 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Its one of the only mechs where torso twisting really has no effect, because no matter where your enemy shoots its practically guaranteed to hit a torso. Its arms are slung too low and the 80 points of armor given to them is practically useless.

When I torso twist in a KGC.

I elevate crosshairs high enough to make the pincers swivel upwards, to raise them to protect my side torso.

It seems to work sometimes. My arms will take more damage than my side torsos.

I don't have video and never tried it with an outside observer to see what kind of coverage is available.

If it works that could be the go to technique to avoid taking side torso hits and spread more damage to the arms.

[xengk]

The promise of Dual AC20 100t Assault is a trap.

King Crab is too big and too slow for brawling at AC20's effective range, they get run around like a DireWolf. Just like the DireWolf they are ideal for direct damage dealing role while friendlies tank/distract enemy.

These King Crab serve me well.
KGC-000B DakkaCrab
KGC-0000 AC10Crab
KGC-000 LURMCrab

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

King Crab does Long Range pretty well. Load it up with AC2's or Dual Gauss, and have fun at range.

I've also had great success with x4 AC5's and some lasers/srm's for backup.

You have to think about the profile of the mech, and what it's ability's are... it's slow and cumbersome, so let's use that, Long Range will be it's best bet, since you'll be slow getting to the fight anyway. Dual Gauss is pretty easy to use on it, but you have to be mindful of the hardpoint's low slung locations.

Other than that, the mech is fairly short and squat, making it easy to hide and peak with longer ranged lasers/ppc's if you want to go that route, or LRM's too.


Really the best builds I've used have been Dual Gauss dual mlas, srm6

or x4[x6] AC5, 2x[3x] mlas.

[The6thMessenger]

xengk, on 18 January 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

KGC-000 LURMCrab

Are you kidding me? Of all mechs you have to lurm boat, it's the King Crab, and the wrong variant too, 6 MG ain't worth **** -- you're screwed already once you're in range with your MG, LPL has too low of range to be a secondary direct-weapon, and just two LRM15As?

If you're going to run a shameless LRM boat, do it right: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d2c9fb36e7fd3cc

[MechWarrior5152251]

If you think the King Crab is the "most underwhelming mech in the game" you obviously have not piloted that many mechs.... Try an Orion or a Highlander, or an Awesome....

[Trollfeed]

I have found most success with double gauss and large laser builds. It's more of a support assault than in your face one.

[xengk]

The6thMessenger, on 18 January 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? Of all mechs you have to lurm boat, it's the King Crab, and the wrong variant too, 6 MG ain't worth **** -- you're screwed already once you're in range with your MG, LPL has too low of range to be a secondary direct-weapon, and just two LRM15As?

If you're going to run a shameless LRM boat, do it right: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d2c9fb36e7fd3cc

Don't want no 1000m hiding LurmBoat.
The suggested build is too hot to sustain the rain.

Mine run as a second line direct fire support at 300m~500m range, LRM with own target lock.
Hexa MG for clean up, and legging light for friendly or LPL to finish.

[Lily from animove]

dual Ac 20 is too short ranegd for such a fat mech in FW. people will just avoid it and make sure someone with range takes care of it.

[The6thMessenger]

xengk, on 18 January 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

Don't want no 1000m hiding LurmBoat.

Mine run as a second line direct fire support at 300m~500m range, LRM with own target lock.

Who said that you're going to hide 1000m away? LLs, not ER LLs, range is at 450m, which is literally within the actual effective range of LRMs of 400.

xengk, on 18 January 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

The suggested build is too hot to sustain the rain.

Maybe you partition your shot? Also LRM10A spread is much tighter.

xengk, on 18 January 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

Hexa MG for clean up, and legging light for friendly or LPL to finish.

Really? You can nab lights with MG? Lights charge in front of you, instead of flanking behind where you don't see them coming? You would sacrifice proper quirks, just so you could get 6 MG?

Really?

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2017 - 03:37 AM, said:

dual Ac 20 is too short ranegd for such a fat mech in FW. people will just avoid it and make sure someone with range takes care of it.

Yeah, that's true. Gauss Rifles could do 15 damage for 660m, more than twice the range of the AC20 so there's not really much point.

Although in certain situations, of when the fight is upon a prepared area, like actually defending the Cannon, it might work. Another thing to point out is that it's a brawling build, so it's not something you stare people with, and you let them see you coming.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 January 2017 - 04:23 AM.

[oldradagast]

The problem with the King Crab is its staggering size and the need to basically expose the whole mech to make good use of its firepower. Also, it is relatively slow and lumbering. Still, it's not awful. It does have some high mounts, but not the ballistics, and it can mount a lot of ballistics. Still, it's not Kodiak, but nothing is.

The biggest problem with the King Crab is that it lures people into horrible builds even more than the Atlas. LRM Crabs, crabs with insane mixes of weapons that don't do anything, crabs with 2 AC20's and almost nothing else that die before getting into the fight, etc.

[MekShred]

I absolutely love my King Crab, played right it can be fearsome on the battle field. Forget about using ac20;s, it too slow for that. However slap 6 ac2's on it and prepare for laughs. Nobody likes being hit non stop by ballistics. And, here a video of me having some fun in my King Crab. Take it with a grain of salt, but I LOVE IT If ac2's arent your thing, insert 4 ultra ac5's.

P.S. the sound is weird, I had no intention of recording it, but after the match I had to! I had copyright music playing which isn't allowed for youtube.