13 replies to this topic

[Akala Tanara]

This is just curiosity, wondering if the Gauss rifle requires a charge to fire, and we have to manually charge it to fire, why does it have a chance to explode when it get's crit, assuming it doesn't explode only when you were charging to fire. The normal non-MWO Gauss requires no charge to fire, it pre-charges while on cooldown, that is it's "Cooldown" the recharging for the next shot, thus it has a chance of exploding, where the ammo cannot as that's just a slug of metal, with no propellant of any form.

[Bombast]

Gameplay Mechanics 101 - It helps if it makes logical sense, but it doesn't have to.

The Gauss Rifle is very powerful. So it needs some stuff to make it not so powerful. One of those things is that it explodes. The other is that release to fire is generally more difficult to use then click to fire.

[Snowbluff]

Simply, the capacitors are left at half charge normal. It's dangerous, but at full charge they'd explode (why they spin down when a charge is complete but not fired), and at no charge, they take forever to charge.

[Akala Tanara]

I don't see how it's that powerful, I mean, it's basically a low heat ER-PPC. Increase the cooldown, no need for the hold to charge, release to fire. It's *NOT* a very intuitive mechanic the hold to charge, and release to fire. Two years ago when I was just playing around with all the mechs in the academy, I got into one with Gauss, and had no idea why it wasn't firing when I tried. Now, of course, I've heard and read many things about it and other MWO mechanics, as well as seen videos so, I know how to use it, not quite so much putting into action though lol.. yep working on that. Still, thanks for the replies thus far :3

*Fixed the derp in my comment, I MEANT to say it was not a very intuitive mechanic to hold to charge and release to fire. >.<; Should've proof read the message better, oops.

Edited by Akala Tanara, 19 January 2017 - 11:33 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

tl;dr: PGI does not want you to use a gaussrifle.


It was implemented to combat gauss/ppc jumpsniper (when jumpsniping was meta).
Way back when the gaussrifle was actually good (double maxrange, low cooldown).

I am assuming that pgi will remove the chargeup mechanic in time.
They said they want to make the gaussrifle more "uniform" with other ballistics and took the 2x maxrange away.
Sure, the heaviest, selfexploding, lowst dps and highest cooldown ballistic weapon just needed another nerf.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 19 January 2017 - 10:59 AM.

[Bombast]

Akala Tanara, on 19 January 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

I don't see how it's that powerful, I mean, it's basically a low heat ER-PPC.

It is the second highest damage per hit weapon in the game, with one of the longest ranges in the game (Well, not so much anyone), with velocity that allows for (If you can get your fingers to cooperate with release to fire) extremely accurate fire and heat that lets you fire as fast as it cools down and you can charge, from the beginning of the match to the end, or as long as your ammo holds out. Dual Gauss gives you 30 pinpoint damage, which is fairly insane when you see some of the better mechwarriors using them.

The ERPPC is also a good weapon, but it only does 10 pinpoint damage (5 damage gets spread around), and even one will overheat your pretty quick if you don't have the heat sinks for it, and 2 certainly will (It's functionally impossible to mount enough heat sinks to hold the trigger down on dual PPCs, and what you have to do to get close to that is fairly insane, loadout wise).

Of course, those characteristics are why GRs and ERPPCs are often grouped together.

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Increase the cooldown, no need for the hold to charge, release to fire.

People have suggested this before. The problem is, with the range GRs have, it's not really that big of a deal to have long cool downs. It would allow people to more easily out brawl Gauss carriers, but it has no affect on the peek and poke play of the GR, and since that's how this game plays out a lot of the time, it kind of makes it a half assed soultion.

However, the charge mechanic affects both ranged combat and brawling, putting a barrier between the player and pinpoint 30 damage volleys at all ranges.

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It's a very intuitive mechanic.

I'm not sure a cooldown change counts as intuitive.

Quote

Two years ago when I was just playing around with all the mechs in the academy, I got into one with Gauss, and had no idea why it wasn't firing when I tried. Now, of course, I've heard and read many things about it and other MWO mechanics, as well as seen videos so, I know how to use it, not quite so much putting into action though lol.. yep working on that. Still, thanks for the replies thus far :3

That's why PGI really needs to add better tool tip descriptions for weapon.

Edited by Bombast, 19 January 2017 - 11:21 AM.

[Mawai]

Ok here is a hand wavy Battletech physics explanation.

The gauss rifle energizes the coils to fire using energy stored in capacitors. It doesn't draw directly from the fusion engine when firing since that would place a much more uneven load on the reactor output AND the coil charging requires the energy in a shorter time frame than could be provided by the engine directly.

The capacitor contains reactive materials that store energy. The capacitor is never completely discharged .. however a full charge is needed to energize the accerelation coils in the rail gun (gauss rifle ... same thing). The capacitor is always being recharged except when full.

In MWO, after firing the gauss rifle, it takes about 4 seconds to reset the system, allow any residual fields/coil currents to dissipate, and bring the capacitor up to sufficient charge to fire the weapon again. It takes roughly 500ms (1/2s) from triggering the capacitor to being ready to fire but the coils are not designed to hold a charge so the energy is either used to fire a projectile or some fraction is redirected back to the capacitor if the weapon is not discharged so that the capacitors do not need to be fully recharged if the weapon is not fired.

Anyway, if the capacitor bank for the gauss rifle is hit by enemy fire there is a good chance it will explode because most of the time it is charged ready to transfer energy to the firing coils AND because the capacitor is made of reactive materials that have a tendency to mix explosively.

So there you go ... a Battletech "logic" explanation that is utterly meaningless but can certainly explain the foibles of the gauss rifle charge mechanic, cooldown and the tendency of the weapon to explode when damaged


In game terms, the reason it works this way is "balance". Insta-fire gauss rifles were amazing close and long range sniper and quick response weapons. I loved legging those aggressive light mechs who thought I'd be a sitting duck at close range . The weapon has a very high projectile velocity and delivers 30 points of PPFLD damage when operated in pairs. However, in lore, the gauss rifle was not supposed to be so easy to use against close targets ... it has a to-hit modifier for close range. In addition, the gauss rifle works exceptionally well when coupled with PPCs. You could fire 2 Gauss + 2 PPC simultaneously (both were fast projectiles at the time) in order to do 50 points of PPFLD damage to one component. This was a bit unbalanced in the opinion of many ... especially when combined with jump jets and pop-tarting. As a result, PGI introduced the charge mechanic and changed projectile speeds to make it harder to hit close fast targets and to try to decouple the high alpha potential. For the most part it worked. The gauss rifle has always exploded when critted much like ammo ... but PGI made it much more likely to explode than ammo ... maybe more than necessary. (and that is more or less the actual game explanation for why the gauss rifle works the way it does ..)

[Akala Tanara]

Thanks Bombast, that pretty much hits on everything yep xD now I understand :3 and yeah, adding more cooldown isn't intuitive but I wasn't claiming it was (Turns out I was unintentionally claiming cooldown was intuitive lol, I looked back at the message and left out the "not" by accident >.>; derp...). Just that, a charge and release to fire isn't intuitive, cooldown's are in most games, very common. The other mechwarriors have cooldown as a mechanic as well after all.

Edited by Akala Tanara, 19 January 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Akala Tanara]

Thanks Mawai, that was a fun read. I believe I do recall reading the Gauss tends to explode in Battletech so, that's not so unexpected just seemed like it was odd, due to the way it worked in MWO. I was actually around a bit during the beta, but my computer back then was so bad I couldn't even run the game to help test it, and by the time I had something able to run it, a looot had changed. I currently prod around a BIT with a Grid Iron Hunchback, but it's really difficult, and that Gauss exploding always ALWAYS kills me, due to the ****** XLs lol. >.< I do try hard to keep the right torso twisted away, once I fire. I've done a lot of bad matches but had some good ones too. Less good ones than bad though so far, but best way to get better is under pressure I think.

[LordNothing]

i wouldn't mind having another second of hold time.

[Tarl Cabot]

Bombast, on 19 January 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Gameplay Mechanics 101 - It helps if it makes logical sense, but it doesn't have to.

The Gauss Rifle is very powerful. So it needs some stuff to make it not so powerful. One of those things is that it explodes. The other is that release to fire is generally more difficult to use then click to fire.

On the other hand, it is a weapon of war, not an experimental model being tested. There should not be such a huge percentage difference between the crit that causes an ammo explosion vs gauss rifle explosion.

[L1f3H4ck]

It's a little like the US attacking Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia after 9/11. See, the Gauss Rifle was Afghanistan, the PPC was Saudi Arabia, where most of the terrorists were from. The Gauss nerf lead to the PPC/AC5 meta, making the Dragon Slayer the bee's knees (imagine that) and the PPC got away smelling like roses. No, it makes no sense from a lore perspective and whether or not it was beneficial to the balance is a hotly contested topic. My advice is to deal with it, cuz you're not gonna change it.

[El Bandito]

Akala Tanara, on 19 January 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

This is just curiosity, wondering if the Gauss rifle requires a charge to fire, and we have to manually charge it to fire, why does it have a chance to explode when it get's crit, assuming it doesn't explode only when you were charging to fire. The normal non-MWO Gauss requires no charge to fire, it pre-charges while on cooldown, that is it's "Cooldown" the recharging for the next shot, thus it has a chance of exploding, where the ammo cannot as that's just a slug of metal, with no propellant of any form.

Balance, that's all there is to it.

Frechdachs, on 19 January 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's a little like the US attacking Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia after 9/11. See, the Gauss Rifle was Afghanistan, the PPC was Saudi Arabia, where most of the terrorists were from. The Gauss nerf lead to the PPC/AC5 meta, making the Dragon Slayer the bee's knees (imagine that) and the PPC got away smelling like roses. No, it makes no sense from a lore perspective and whether or not it was beneficial to the balance is a hotly contested topic. My advice is to deal with it, cuz you're not gonna change it.

While you are correct, the PPCs got severe velocity nerf, from 2000m/s to 1200m/s.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 January 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Wasnt the charge mechanic added to the Gauss to stop it being so damn OP in brawls?