Jump to content

Us Net Neutrality

Social News

56 replies to this topic

#21 razenWing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Fearless
  • The Fearless
  • 1,694 posts

Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:06 PM

View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:


No it was a clarification... Net Neutrality did kill Google Fiber but it was a mercy killing at that point. It was what made Google realize that the government was just way too corrupt to every allow them to lay fiber nationwide... so while it did nothing itself, its presence was enough to doom all hope. Pretty pathetic attempt to strawman the argument though... I expect better


Is anyone understanding this guy's logic?

And if you are going to make up some BS, at least stick to something that's hard to fact check. Google PUSHED for net neutrality. It was the big ISPs that want to get rid of net neutrality. You've got it backward, buddy. (and like, even as you typed that, you never thought about the weird logic behind what you just thought? Oh geez, big isps want everyone to have the same traffic, even though they can potentially extort some companies more money for using more traffic? besides you dimwit, NETFLIX DO PAY MORE MONEY FOR MORE TRAFFIC. Just like if you want 10g on your phone, you pay more money. The difference between net neutrality vs no net neutrality is that Trump.net can tell every ISP that he's willing to pay more, so his connection speed to everyone else be faster. THAT's the issue. God damn... you stupid donkey *****)

And omg with the "everything Obama must be bad" shat. Affordable Care Act is the most important legislation to get universal health care, to declare health care as a fundamental human right. To make it so that one day, if your broke @ss is at home playing video game, and you got cancer, you can play Mechwarrior in your hospital bed instead of waiting to die because you can't afford it. Does it have a ton of holes? Damn right. But tell that to 20 millions that got health care instead of clogging up the emergence room, you selfish piece of shat.

(and you are totally dumb if you think government is somehow regulating free captalism. go check your medical insurance companies. are they FOR profit organizations or NO profit organizations?)

Maybe read things outside of breibart for once. have fun licking vladmir putin's armpit.

#22 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:15 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 19 January 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:


Is anyone understanding this guy's logic?

And if you are going to make up some BS, at least stick to something that's hard to fact check. Google PUSHED for net neutrality. It was the big ISPs that want to get rid of net neutrality. You've got it backward, buddy. (and like, even as you typed that, you never thought about the weird logic behind what you just thought? Oh geez, big isps want everyone to have the same traffic, even though they can potentially extort some companies more money for using more traffic? besides you dimwit, NETFLIX DO PAY MORE MONEY FOR MORE TRAFFIC. Just like if you want 10g on your phone, you pay more money. The difference between net neutrality vs no net neutrality is that Trump.net can tell every ISP that he's willing to pay more, so his connection speed to everyone else be faster. THAT's the issue. God damn... you stupid donkey *****)

And omg with the "everything Obama must be bad" shat. Affordable Care Act is the most important legislation to get universal health care, to declare health care as a fundamental human right. To make it so that one day, if your broke @ss is at home playing video game, and you got cancer, you can play Mechwarrior in your hospital bed instead of waiting to die because you can't afford it. Does it have a ton of holes? Damn right. But tell that to 20 millions that got health care instead of clogging up the emergence room, you selfish piece of shat.

(and you are totally dumb if you think government is somehow regulating free captalism. go check your medical insurance companies. are they FOR profit organizations or NO profit organizations?)

Maybe read things outside of breibart for once. have fun licking vladmir putin's armpit.

No one understands his logic, because there is none.

#23 I_AM_ZUUL

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 1,017 posts
  • LocationIsle of Skye (Freeing Skye from the Steiner usurpers)

Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:11 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 19 January 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

Affordable Care Act is the most important legislation to get universal health care, to declare health care as a fundamental human right.


No one has a RIGHT to anyone elses Services... Doctors and Nurses are not your Slaves that you can demand that they they do something for you, what a perversion of Western Ideals you are spewing. the "Affordable Care Act" actually came out of The Heritage Foundation which is a "right wing" Washington think tank... so it has very little to do with Obama especially since I included the Patriot Act on purpose cause that was Bush, now Obama made it even worse with the National Defense Authorization Act but I was pulling from both sides to be impartial in demonstrations that they are all corrupt mouth pieces. Chump is going to no worse or no better than Killary... the wars will continue, the debt will increase, our freedoms will be stolen. If you think that anything they do is good for you... i do not know if i should be jealous for your willful ignorance or hateful for your willful ignorance.

#24 NighthawK1337

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 373 posts
  • LocationInner Sphere, Terra, Asia, Philippines

Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:30 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 19 January 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

I ain't talkin' about RL stuff like this on the MW:O forums, especially in GD. That's equivalent to a suicide by cop.


I see what you mean now.... We started with Net Neutrality and then still ended up in Obamacare.

-__- I kinda regret posting this now. I started the post because I was worried about PGI's servers, not US' politics but I guess it's impossible to talk about Net Neutrality in the US without getting dragged into one.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 19 January 2017 - 11:33 PM.


#25 DovisKhan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 872 posts

Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:40 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 19 January 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:


Is anyone understanding this guy's logic?

And if you are going to make up some BS, at least stick to something that's hard to fact check. Google PUSHED for net neutrality. It was the big ISPs that want to get rid of net neutrality. You've got it backward, buddy. (and like, even as you typed that, you never thought about the weird logic behind what you just thought? Oh geez, big isps want everyone to have the same traffic, even though they can potentially extort some companies more money for using more traffic? besides you dimwit, NETFLIX DO PAY MORE MONEY FOR MORE TRAFFIC. Just like if you want 10g on your phone, you pay more money. The difference between net neutrality vs no net neutrality is that Trump.net can tell every ISP that he's willing to pay more, so his connection speed to everyone else be faster. THAT's the issue. God damn... you stupid donkey *****)

And omg with the "everything Obama must be bad" shat. Affordable Care Act is the most important legislation to get universal health care, to declare health care as a fundamental human right. To make it so that one day, if your broke @ss is at home playing video game, and you got cancer, you can play Mechwarrior in your hospital bed instead of waiting to die because you can't afford it. Does it have a ton of holes? Damn right. But tell that to 20 millions that got health care instead of clogging up the emergence room, you selfish piece of shat.

(and you are totally dumb if you think government is somehow regulating free captalism. go check your medical insurance companies. are they FOR profit organizations or NO profit organizations?)

Maybe read things outside of breibart for once. have fun licking vladmir putin's armpit.


What don't you understand.


Companies that have enough corrupt politicians in their pocket always create laws that are ironic.


They say they are for [insert good cause], but they're not, have you been born yesterday and don't realize that companies and politicians sometimes lie?


That's why "humanitarian organizations" are actually helping human traffickers for example.


View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:


Net Neutrality did not do anything really... it was just the final nail in the coffin that made Google realize they were never going to squeeze water out of that rock. The biggest culprit of the death of Google Fiber was really Municipalities regulations... much easier and cheaper to fund city council campaigns for the ISPs, to make it so grinding and tedious to get Permits that eventually Google would give up. Which of course Google did once "Net Neutrality" went into effect cause then they were not even be able to ever get help from the Federal level. Hey the "Patriot Act" sounds amazing too... until you realize that it throws the 1st, 4th, 5th, & 6th Amendments out the window, the "Afforable Care Act" sounds like the best thing the human race has ever done... until you realize the same amount of people still do not have health insurance, those same lower income people had their wage hours cut, and insurance premiums are higher then they have ever been.

So while the concept sounds all warm and fluffy... it practical application it is going to be horrendous and it will actually make lots of services worse. Netflix uses such a huge percentage of total internet use, that companies were able to get Netflix in investing in upgrading bandwidth support... but now Netflix traffic gets the same priority as all other traffic meaning that Netflix has already drastically scaled back in their infrastructure support since they will no longer be receiving priority on the infrastructure they helped pay for. So Netflix streaming will suffer... but further down the line growth they would have paid to use will no longer even be created, a side effect commonly referred to as the "Unseen Conquesences" by economists. That which can not be measured because the investment of capital went elsewhere.

hope that helps explain some things a little better that no one else had previously been able to do for you.


Kudos on being one of those that can see this irony everywhere, but most won't get it, even if you explain it to them slow and in detail.

Edited by DovisKhan, 19 January 2017 - 11:43 PM.


#26 RestosIII

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 7,322 posts
  • LocationDelios

Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:44 PM

View PostNighthawK1337, on 19 January 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:


I see what you mean now.... We started with Net Neutrality and then still ended up in Obamacare.

-__- I kinda regret posting this now. I started the post because I was worried about PGI's servers, not US' politics but I guess it's impossible to talk about Net Neutrality in the US without getting dragged into one.


How to survive on the internet: Don't tell anyone anything about yourself, don't be a jerk, and dear lord never mention politics. I made the terrible mistake of chiming in on a political thread here once, and after that I realized I prefer my sanity too much to ever do it again.

#27 Davegt27

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,970 posts
  • LocationCO

Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:17 AM

wow this thread went south

the big thing is not to panic
the US press is so butt hurt over the election you will hear all kinds of stuff

just wait and see what happens

#28 PhoenixFire55

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,725 posts
  • LocationSt.Petersburg / Outreach

Posted 20 January 2017 - 04:30 AM

I think you guys should just cut yourself from the rest of internet alltogether so that big bad mean russian haxxors won't be able to hack you again.

#29 TWIAFU

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pest
  • The Pest
  • 4,011 posts
  • LocationBell's Brewery, MI

Posted 20 January 2017 - 05:07 AM

View PostSpectreHD, on 19 January 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

How would the new administration affect net neutrality? Are they reducing the FCC's abilities?



Two advisers the president-elect appointed for his transition team, Jeff Eisenach and Mark Jamison, are both fierce opponents of network neutrality.

The new administration in the US has some 660 Cabinet positions to fill. As of yesterday, the day before he is sworn in, he has appointed 30. Yes, only 30 of the 660 he has to do. Out of that 30, ZERO have been confirmed. The transition has done nothing to fill the positions needed to make our Government work. Last night, less then 24hrs before he is to be sworn in, he suddenly asked over 50 Obama appointee's to stay, because he has NOBODY to fill those spots, some have said NO already.

However, Trump claims the transition is moving smoothly, positions are filled, all his appointess will be confirmed. The reality of the situation is no where near what he says.

#30 Ghogiel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • 6,852 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 05:26 AM

I seem to recall the US telecom internet scam already happened back in the 90s-mid 2000s. The telcos got a load of money, subsidies and tax benefits in exchange for fiber installation in millions and millions of homes. They collected billions and pretty much did none of those promises. like 1/3rd of the US was supposed to be on fiber 10 years ago and you all paid for it. RIP

#31 Davegt27

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,970 posts
  • LocationCO

Posted 20 January 2017 - 05:32 AM

this web site says 1200 to 1400 appointments

https://en.wikipedia...te_confirmation


Quote

A 2012 Congressional Research Service study estimated that approximately 1200-1400 positions require Senate confirmation.[2]


again don't panic the world is not coming to an end

#32 Bobzilla

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Determined
  • The Determined
  • 2,003 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted 20 January 2017 - 05:42 AM

View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:


No one has a RIGHT to anyone elses Services... Doctors and Nurses are not your Slaves that you can demand that they they do something for you, what a perversion of Western Ideals you are spewing. the "Affordable Care Act" actually came out of The Heritage Foundation which is a "right wing" Washington think tank... so it has very little to do with Obama especially since I included the Patriot Act on purpose cause that was Bush, now Obama made it even worse with the National Defense Authorization Act but I was pulling from both sides to be impartial in demonstrations that they are all corrupt mouth pieces. Chump is going to no worse or no better than Killary... the wars will continue, the debt will increase, our freedoms will be stolen. If you think that anything they do is good for you... i do not know if i should be jealous for your willful ignorance or hateful for your willful ignorance.


As a Canadian, access to free healthcare is a right. Just sayin. I'm also quite certain you have the rights to a lawyer if charged and many other services.

#33 XxXAbsolutZeroXxX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Stryker
  • The Stryker
  • 2,056 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 06:22 AM

View PostGhogiel, on 20 January 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

I seem to recall the US telecom internet scam already happened back in the 90s-mid 2000s. The telcos got a load of money, subsidies and tax benefits in exchange for fiber installation in millions and millions of homes. They collected billions and pretty much did none of those promises. like 1/3rd of the US was supposed to be on fiber 10 years ago and you all paid for it. RIP


That is EXACTLY right. Posted Image

In addition, the government currently collects telecommunication taxes which in theory should be spent towards maintaining or upgrading america's internet infrastructure.

For some strange reason, the taxes collected to maintain our infrastructure is never spent towards that purpose.

edit

View PostrazenWing, on 19 January 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:


Is anyone understanding this guy's logic?

Just like if you want 10g on your phone, you pay more money.

And omg with the "everything Obama must be bad" shat. Affordable Care Act is the most important legislation to get universal health care, to declare health care as a fundamental human right.


I saw at least 3 key points that needed a response in your post.

But I will only respond to 2 of them.

#1 If you live in america, you should know that your cellphone plan and internet are the same or inferior to the service europeans enjoy. Yet being american you pay about 5 times more than europeans pay for their cellphone / internet. This is something americans should be aware of & ask the question why this is so. Without knowledge & information on this, americans will never understand why things like healthcare, internet and cell phone service are so much more expensive in the united states than in other countries.

#2 The affordable care act was never going to work. I've been saying this since 2007/2008.

If you want a reason -- the ACA was never going to work as it represents an attempt to tax healthcare into prosperity. There are many other reasons but that is one of the main ones.

The ACA was funded by 20 tax hikes on poor to middle class income brackets.

Its impossible to tax healthcare into prosperity, anymore than its possible for a person to spend their way out of debt.

To find good info on healthcare, you have to go back a few years since its been literally years since anything legitimate has been said on the topic by the media.

These days the media only focuses on issues like homosexuality and race to divide people.

And the media spreads much false propaganda to mislead, misinform and blatantly lie. To keep people in the dark on important topics and make it easier for the establishment to prey on peoples lack of knowledge.

The truth about healthcare is, americans have desperately wanted healthcare reform for decades. The state stalled on healthcare reform, waiting until the day when americans were desperate enough to accept anything. That day came when the affordable care act was voted on, despite no one being allowed to read what was in the bill, before voting.

Anyways, there is much info many are not aware of that is essential with these types of topics which makes them difficult to discuss.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 20 January 2017 - 06:52 AM.


#34 Magnus Santini

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • 708 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:30 AM

Net neutrality does not apply in Canada or PGI would chase out those guys with 3 ping parked in their lot stealing WIFI.

#35 Lily from animove

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 13,891 posts
  • LocationOn a dropship to Terra

Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:43 AM

View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:


Those all sound AMAZING... "Net Neutrality" is absolute garbage. You can tell just by the name... "Afforable Care Act"/"Patriot Act", whatever the name of something it does the EXACT OPPOSITE of that. Net Neutrality was written by big telecomm to cement Federal protection of their buisness models... the whole country would have Google Fiber that they tried to do for a decade before finally giving up explicitly because of those "regulations" which the ISPs paid of Federal, State, & Municipals to enact to prevent competition. Always remember people, the most terrifying 11 words in the English language... "We are from the government and we are here to help."


isn't ACA is just renamed version obama care?

View PostGhogiel, on 20 January 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

I seem to recall the US telecom internet scam already happened back in the 90s-mid 2000s. The telcos got a load of money, subsidies and tax benefits in exchange for fiber installation in millions and millions of homes. They collected billions and pretty much did none of those promises. like 1/3rd of the US was supposed to be on fiber 10 years ago and you all paid for it. RIP


what to expect in a pure capitalism? It's making as much money as possible by the lowest amount of input. And when gouvernment doesn't properly sue people and penalise them for these things that will not change.

In the end, democracy is destinied to fail when a to large mass of the population is too uneducated to know what consequences their politics cause with the plans they have.How can one not understanding this even vote?

Thats like I tell someone 2 things he doesn't understand and then he has to vote. Could be both nice, could be both bad for him. It's like gambling.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 January 2017 - 07:53 AM.


#36 razenWing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Fearless
  • The Fearless
  • 1,694 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:35 AM

View PostDovisKhan, on 19 January 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:


What don't you understand.


Companies that have enough corrupt politicians in their pocket always create laws that are ironic.


They say they are for [insert good cause], but they're not, have you been born yesterday and don't realize that companies and politicians sometimes lie?


That's why "humanitarian organizations" are actually helping human traffickers for example.


Kudos on being one of those that can see this irony everywhere, but most won't get it, even if you explain it to them slow and in detail.


Please, I love to hear how I_AM_ZUUL somehow got all the facts wrong with the obvious wrong position taken by Google/Verizon/Comcast and somehow, net neutrality is still a bad thing. I love to hear this.

And regarding everything else, I am not arguing for or against any of that. You like to think there's a boogeyman in your closet? That's your right. I really don't care one way or the other.

But yea, please. Tell me what part of I_AM_ZUUL's argument is actually valid? I am still waiting for anyone to prove this, cause the closest thing anyone has to anything is "government bad, me likey no talkey about net neutrality cause I don't understand crap about it"

View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:


No one has a RIGHT to anyone elses Services... Doctors and Nurses are not your Slaves that you can demand that they they do something for you, what a perversion of Western Ideals you are spewing. the "Affordable Care Act" actually came out of The Heritage Foundation which is a "right wing" Washington think tank... so it has very little to do with Obama especially since I included the Patriot Act on purpose cause that was Bush, now Obama made it even worse with the National Defense Authorization Act but I was pulling from both sides to be impartial in demonstrations that they are all corrupt mouth pieces. Chump is going to no worse or no better than Killary... the wars will continue, the debt will increase, our freedoms will be stolen. If you think that anything they do is good for you... i do not know if i should be jealous for your willful ignorance or hateful for your willful ignorance.


WTF? That's the lamest excuse and obviously skewed perspective of what the medical profession is. NO ONE is forcing anyone to be doctors or nurses. NO ONE is forcing those doctors and nurses to treat anyone for free. Are they not compensated? Did they not agree to uphold the morality of Hippocratic Oath? You lack even the basic understanding that's it's frankly borderline comical.

You know what will be true "FREE" healthcare per se? If your broke @ss has to go to the emergency room and can't pay your bill afterward

PS BTW you know you can totally start a FOR profit hospital right? NO ONE is stopping you. If you feel like you should go full capitalism on health care, start one. You somehow have this weird perception like you can't squat down to take a shat without the government telling you to wipe with your left hand.

View PostI Zeratul I, on 20 January 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:


That is EXACTLY right. Posted Image

In addition, the government currently collects telecommunication taxes which in theory should be spent towards maintaining or upgrading america's internet infrastructure.

For some strange reason, the taxes collected to maintain our infrastructure is never spent towards that purpose.

edit



I saw at least 3 key points that needed a response in your post.

But I will only respond to 2 of them.

#1 If you live in america, you should know that your cellphone plan and internet are the same or inferior to the service europeans enjoy. Yet being american you pay about 5 times more than europeans pay for their cellphone / internet. This is something americans should be aware of & ask the question why this is so. Without knowledge & information on this, americans will never understand why things like healthcare, internet and cell phone service are so much more expensive in the united states than in other countries.

#2 The affordable care act was never going to work. I've been saying this since 2007/2008.

If you want a reason -- the ACA was never going to work as it represents an attempt to tax healthcare into prosperity. There are many other reasons but that is one of the main ones.

The ACA was funded by 20 tax hikes on poor to middle class income brackets.

Its impossible to tax healthcare into prosperity, anymore than its possible for a person to spend their way out of debt.

To find good info on healthcare, you have to go back a few years since its been literally years since anything legitimate has been said on the topic by the media.

These days the media only focuses on issues like homosexuality and race to divide people.

And the media spreads much false propaganda to mislead, misinform and blatantly lie. To keep people in the dark on important topics and make it easier for the establishment to prey on peoples lack of knowledge.

The truth about healthcare is, americans have desperately wanted healthcare reform for decades. The state stalled on healthcare reform, waiting until the day when americans were desperate enough to accept anything. That day came when the affordable care act was voted on, despite no one being allowed to read what was in the bill, before voting.

Anyways, there is much info many are not aware of that is essential with these types of topics which makes them difficult to discuss.


So this is an obvious deviation from the main topic, and I am not about to make a 3 page argument on the pros/cons of ACA. But I will say this:

Yes I acknowledge that ACA is not perfect. Even the president himself said that this version of the ACA is full of complexity and holes. HOWEVER, it's the first step toward something that's workable. The ACA effectively extended the timeline of when Medicaid/Medicare would go broke by about 20 years. Without it, no one get squat.

Also, are you implying that Europeans have better internet because they don't have net neutrality? Again, I really don't give a crap why European has better internet than US if its anything other than that. That's not my concern. What I do care, is morons like I_AM_ZUUL saying shat like Google fibre is killed by net neutrality (on-topic) and that net neutrality is not supported by Google, but by Comcast/Verizon/ATT (again, no topic). Beyond that, I really don't give a crap nor something that I care to discuss here.

Edit: BTW, who the hell says Google Fibre is "dead?" Google Fibre is not dead. Is it not wide spread and met with resistance by existing ISPs? Hell yea. But it is anything but dead. After Bell Atlantic laid out the first telephone line, they tried to block everyone else from doing the same. But we still got a huge @ss array of networks provided by at least a handful of ISPs. Google Fibre will eventually break through and spread like wild fire. Saying that it's dead is also one of the worst distortion of facts so far on this thread.

Seriously, I am not even going to be surprised if someone post stuff like "alien actually laid out the communication infrastructure." Yea, I have that little faith in the forum.

Edited by razenWing, 20 January 2017 - 08:44 AM.


#37 I_AM_ZUUL

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 1,017 posts
  • LocationIsle of Skye (Freeing Skye from the Steiner usurpers)

Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:26 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 20 January 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

isn't ACA is just renamed version obama care?


They are the exact same thing,,, obamacare is just a nickname, the actual bill is the Affordable Care Act

Quote

what to expect in a pure capitalism? It's making as much money as possible by the lowest amount of input. And when gouvernment doesn't properly sue people and penalise them for these things that will not change. In the end, democracy is destinied to fail when a to large mass of the population is too uneducated to know what consequences their politics cause with the plans they have.How can one not understanding this even vote? Thats like I tell someone 2 things he doesn't understand and then he has to vote. Could be both nice, could be both bad for him. It's like gambling.


exactly... welcome to being one of those people, democracy was despised by the Founders which is why they set up a Republic. The fact you said "pure capitalism" is proof positive why the Founders wanted to limit voting... it is NOT capitalism when the GOVERNMENT is involved. That is the very definition of Socialism, where by State Power is used to dictate to the Market therefore the Market is no long Free. America is a De Facto Socialist State which is one of the worst practical applications of Socialism, it is why the actual Socialist countries are ranked Higher of the Economic Freedom Index. Capitalism is a far superior system then Socialism and definitely better than the Corporatism we currently have... but big companies being paid off using Public Funds is the staple of this system, its why they pay billions every year to politicians. The presidential election campaigns are over a billion dollars now... you dont think people are investing that kind of money to not see a return do you?

#38 XxXAbsolutZeroXxX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Stryker
  • The Stryker
  • 2,056 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 20 January 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

isn't ACA is just renamed version obama care?


ACA(affordable care act) and Obamacare are the same thing.

ACA is the official name of the legislature. Obamacare is a slang term people use to connect the ACA to Obama, even though Obama was never really involved nor did much to endorse the bill.

View PostrazenWing, on 20 January 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

So this is an obvious deviation from the main topic, and I am not about to make a 3 page argument on the pros/cons of ACA. But I will say this:

Yes I acknowledge that ACA is not perfect. Even the president himself said that this version of the ACA is full of complexity and holes. HOWEVER, it's the first step toward something that's workable. The ACA effectively extended the timeline of when Medicaid/Medicare would go broke by about 20 years. Without it, no one get squat.

Also, are you implying that Europeans have better internet because they don't have net neutrality? Again, I really don't give a crap why European has better internet than US if its anything other than that. That's not my concern.


I'm not here to argue. Posted Image There are a lot of points people are missing. I'm only here to point some of those out.

Many europeans pay (last I heard) $12 a month for cellphone / broadband internet plans. They have the same cellphone & internet service americans have(better than what americans have in some cases), only they pay about 5 times less. To understand why healthcare(and everything else except gasoline) is ridiculously more high priced in the united states than it is in foreign countries, a person needs to understand why other countries are able to do things more affordably.

Long story short, many industries in the usa like healthcare and telecommunications function like state sanctioned monopolies. People in the healthcare and telecom industry conspire to artificially fix prices in a way that prevents free market competition from bringing prices down. This is why everything in america is more expensive, always.

The ACA was never going to work firstly because it was funded by 20 tax hikes and represented an attempt to tax healthcare into prosperity and secondly because it did nothing to address the price fixing / state sanctioned monopolism of the healthcare industry.

You want evidence healthcare is corrupt? Here read this:

https://www.washingt...-are-ludicrous/

And this:

https://www.techdirt...omic-scam.shtml

There's nothing nearly as legit as either of those articles being written about healthcare now. Factcheck sites and snopes sweep stories like that under a rug and pretend they don't exist. Almost everything in the news are weak attempts to divide, mislead, misinform and outright lie to people.

I haven't kept up on net neutrality, it may be a moot point though. In the past google was trustworthy and somewhat followed its "dont be evil" ideal.

But like they say things change. Google is no longer trustworthy. At one time net neutrality may have been a good thing. I'm not sure if it is anymore.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 20 January 2017 - 10:41 AM.


#39 1453 R

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 5,458 posts

Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:51 AM

View PostI_AM_ZUUL, on 19 January 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

...
So while the concept sounds all warm and fluffy... it practical application it is going to be horrendous and it will actually make lots of services worse. Netflix uses such a huge percentage of total internet use, that companies were able to get Netflix in investing in upgrading bandwidth support... but now Netflix traffic gets the same priority as all other traffic meaning that Netflix has already drastically scaled back in their infrastructure support since they will no longer be receiving priority on the infrastructure they helped pay for. So Netflix streaming will suffer... but further down the line growth they would have paid to use will no longer even be created, a side effect commonly referred to as the "Unseen Conquesences" by economists. That which can not be measured because the investment of capital went elsewhere.
...


I know I shouldn't, but this particular point in general bothers the hell out of me, and is the main crux of the argument for Net Neutrality.

Bandwidth is a zero-sum game - for someone to have increased priority, everyone else has to collectively have decreased priority because that is how 'priority' works. If massive companies like Netflix are allowed to buy increased network priority, then anyone who wants to compete with Netflix has to also buy the same or better network priority. Any company that buys this increased priority for any reason makes the rest of the Internet just that little bit worse, that little bit slower, less responsive, less reliable and less useful for everyone else.

Massive megacorps can afford to eat that hit in order to make their personal web systems run more smoothly, but Plucky Start-Ups that can't afford to pay the exorbitant, extortionistic SuperMegaUltraFees that telecoms will charge for "priority" usage will, effectively, be priced off the Internet. Netflix will never have to compete with a newer video service ever again because any newer video service, regardless of whether it's a better, stronger platform, won't be able to afford to pay through the nose for high priority network handling.

This is to say nothing, of course, of the individual Internet consumer's experience, which would become absolutely horrific. As a single individual paying for home Internet, your ability to connecto to sites with superhigh priority like Netflix, Google, Wal-Mart's online shopping center, or whatever else will be great! ...but every other single use you can put the Internet to will be utterly awful because you are at the absolute bottom of the priority bucket. Your network requests and traffic get handled after absolutely everyone else in the world because all the corporations buying Me-First "high priority" traffic have ensured that you're going to be at the bottom of that heap forever. You do not begin to have the pockets to pay for working Internet to your personal home.

The Internet goes from being a free playground that anyone and everyone can use equally to do anything they feel might work out to being, effectively, a virtual strip mall utterly and completely dominated by Big Business, with everyone else choked out and forced to fold because they can't sustain their smaller businesses or personal web tools or sites/blogs/whatevers in the face of extremely discriminatory network handling that panders to Big Corporate at the direct expense of literally everyone and everything else.

Of course, the incoming administration is basically Big Corporate personified, so the end of Net Neutrality, at least temporarily, is unfortunately sort of a given. Hopefully when Trump and Co. push through all the ridiculous laws Big Telecom keeps trying to push so they can monetize every last one and zero and price the overwhelming majority of network traffic off the Internet doing it, the monumental decrease in the power and freedom will result in enough of a public uproar that Net Neutrality will be forcefully re-invoked, to stay this time.

Until then...well, don't get too attached to any of your non-Blizzard online games. Smaller companies like Piranha simply won't be able to afford the priority network handling needed to keep a game like MWO running smoothly. Nor will any amount of Awesome New Infrastructure that abolishing Net Neutrality will, ostensibly, allow Big Telecom to build help in the least, since none of us will be able to benefit from that sweet new infrastructure without paying until we bleed for High Priority access. And that's if they bother building new infrastructure in the first place instead of just pocketing their profits and laughing their aszes off all the way to the bank.

Here's a hint: they won't. Building infrastructure costs money, and Big Telecom is not going to spend money. Spending money gets in the way of making money, and making money is the only thing in the entire world that matters to the people who are, by horribly unfortunate circumstance, the guardians of all of humanity's collected and accumulated knowledge and our gateway to the world.

The Internet is a precious and irreplaceable resource that should be readily and easily available to absolutely everyone on the planet. You shouldn't be able to spend money to kick everyone else off of that resource or forcibly strangle your business competition...but that's the direction we're headed in now.

God f***ing damnit.

Edited by 1453 R, 20 January 2017 - 10:53 AM.


#40 NighthawK1337

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 373 posts
  • LocationInner Sphere, Terra, Asia, Philippines

Posted 20 January 2017 - 11:18 AM

View PostI Zeratul I, on 20 January 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

I haven't kept up on net neutrality, it may be a moot point though. In the past google was trustworthy and somewhat followed its "dont be evil" ideal.

But like they say things change. Google is no longer trustworthy. At one time net neutrality may have been a good thing. I'm not sure if it is anymore.

Not even touching Obamacare.


Net Neutrality isn't an exclusive thing in the US, however if we let the ISPs of the US there subvert it, it has a very real possibility of being the norm.

Google is influenced by people, most of their search results are based on what gets referenced to the most. Whatever that seems relevant. That's how people can get fake news to pop up instead of real ones. That's how Google Bombing became a thing except more subtle. You can't trust google nowadays because you can't trust news site nowadays. Google don't make the news. Google is one of the few actually still bringing in innovation, they supported Net Neutrality before, and still do.

The principle is easy enough, you treat web traffic equally. The problem is that like most posts have said, corporations want the maximum amount of money with the minimum amount of input. Allowing priorities to take into effect will make it so that the one who can buy the highest priority gets the highest web traffic leading to more money, which circles back to more priority.

Priority is not the same as having better network resources, it just means that somebody else will have to get the short end of the stick. Having new restrictions are not innovations, they're just new policies designed to wring out more money than before with already existing equipment. And we can conclude damn well that the new revenue if this is allowed won't go to improving network infrastructure, it's just gonna go to their pockets.

Saying that Net Neutrality stifles innovation because people can't innovate by restricting others is like saying that the Garbage Disposal is stifling the market of Air Fresheners. Saying that it's stopping jobs from being created is like saying that cars are stopping the job "Human Rickshaw Puller" from taking off. The corporations that wants Net Neutrality out of the way wants to invent a new demand for something that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

Ask yourself this, do you really think that the consumer's data being treated as second class will help any other consumer at all? How the hell would I view Restos' response Anime GIFs if Imgur didn't pay premium?

Data is not the same as water from the water service, we pay for the water because we use it like an object, but we use networks like a road to transfer data from one place to another. You only pay for the pipes once then just pay for maintenance. 1000 Liters of water will use up 1000 liters of the water company's inventory while a 1 GB from Netflix will use the same resources from 1 MB from Imgur, namely a bunch of routers, copper wire, fibre optic cables, etc. Data does not comes from the ISP but they pass through the networks owned by them, like when you pay for using a highway with tolls. We can argue that 1GB takes longer to download or might need bigger routers, or more electricity but considering that network resources like that are already being paid for by the current payment scheme, and if you have more data to transfer, you pay for bigger lines, like an E1 being upgraded to an E2 leased line.

There is nothing paying for premiums will do for the benefit of consumers. The end result is that on top of paying for the connection and maintenance of the line, the site owner and site user will have to pay more so that they can maximize the use of the line that they already paid for to be installed. Same reason Data Caps are BS.

Removing Net Neutrality is nothing but a self-serving move by the US ISPs.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 20 January 2017 - 11:22 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users