50 replies to this topic

[Wesxander]

Seriously nerfing Gauss rifles to 1320 max? It's the longest mech mounted weapon both clan and innersphere period. Now you got clan ER PPCs out range gauss. THAT NEVER HAPPENED. Not even in alternate universe excuse that you been passing around. FYI Gauss do full damage on table top out to their max range which is 1 hex futher than ER ppc in the classic table top days. Now you got it doing all of whoping 7 points maybe 8 at range 700 or more? Clan ER PPC at those ranges damage still 10 plus 5 splash. It's insane. Bad enough you added a gauss rifle charge timer that people have to train for weeks on then change it around.

Seriously gauss rifle is supposed to be the longest ranged hardest hitting weapon in the game. Instead you think it should be like an auto cannon. That ER PPC should be best. Innersphere in 3053 and 3058 focused on gauss rifle equiped mechs because it was one the few peices of equipment they was nearly on par with the clans with. Clans typically didn't like gauss rifles because their ER PPC's did same damage and never ran out ammo.

Nerfing hell out gauss rifles and quietly doing so behind the scenes. I challenge you pick up a classic battle tech rule book and explain this logically. You can't.

[Cassa Nova]

Wesxander, on 19 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Nerfing hell out gauss rifles and quietly doing so behind the scenes. I challenge you pick up a classic battle tech rule book and explain this logically. You can't.

Explain, logically mind you, why AC/20s have 270m range? Why do 20mm machine guns only reach out to 120?

There's this magical thing called balance. Now I'm a lore monkey but often times TT values don't work for real time sims. If they did every weapon would have a 10 second reload time across the board.

[Bombast]

Boo hoo.

Gauss Rifles were over performing, so they got nerfed. They got nerfed quite publically, as well - We pick apart every patch, you know.

If you want to play with Gauss Walls, that's your business. But most people playing this game have no wish to be bisected by Gauss Boats from clear across the map.

[FupDup]

Where exactly did you get the idea that the Gauss has the longest range? Look at the range values on Sarna please. The Gauss is 22 hexes. The ERPPC is 23 hexes. The AC/2 is 24 hexes. The Clan ERLL is 25. Etc. Thus, the Gauss is ONE OF THE longest ranged weapons, but not "the" longest range weapon.

Do your homework.


And hardest hitting? That role belongs to the AC/20 until the Heavy Gauss comes around.

Edited by FupDup, 19 January 2017 - 05:59 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

'train for weeks'? it took a matter of matches to adjust to the gauss charge. im not sure why so many people think its hard to use.

[Steve Pryde]

Gauss is 15 dmg nearly hitscan and no heat. And triple the range shouldn't have any weapon.

[Lostdragon]

[Carl Vickers]

As a Davion I thought you have have been happy with the change, closer parity (range wise) with lurms.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 19 January 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Bombast]

VitriolicViolet, on 19 January 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

'train for weeks'? it took a matter of matches to adjust to the gauss charge. im not sure why so many people think its hard to use.

It's hard for many for the same reason people often screw up shooting real fire arms - You're finger isn't just floating in a void, it's attached to a wrist and an arm, and some people have problems only moving a little bit of them. We're all trained to do so for clicking - Most have a hard time switching to steady releasing.

I gave up on Gauss Rifles months ago, myself. I simply cannot get over it, and I can't hit the broad side of a barn, and more importantly, just the attempt to do so was ruining all the joy I get out of this game.

Even still though, I don't think it should be changed.

[Alan Davion]

Wesxander, on 19 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Seriously nerfing Gauss rifles to 1320 max? It's the longest mech mounted weapon both clan and innersphere period. Now you got clan ER PPCs out range gauss. THAT NEVER HAPPENED. Not even in alternate universe excuse that you been passing around. FYI Gauss do full damage on table top out to their max range which is 1 hex futher than ER ppc in the classic table top days. Now you got it doing all of whoping 7 points maybe 8 at range 700 or more? Clan ER PPC at those ranges damage still 10 plus 5 splash. It's insane. Bad enough you added a gauss rifle charge timer that people have to train for weeks on then change it around.

Seriously gauss rifle is supposed to be the longest ranged hardest hitting weapon in the game. Instead you think it should be like an auto cannon. That ER PPC should be best. Innersphere in 3053 and 3058 focused on gauss rifle equiped mechs because it was one the few peices of equipment they was nearly on par with the clans with. Clans typically didn't like gauss rifles because their ER PPC's did same damage and never ran out ammo.

Nerfing hell out gauss rifles and quietly doing so behind the scenes. I challenge you pick up a classic battle tech rule book and explain this logically. You can't.

Keep in mind my friend, that when referencing hexes and table top, that table top maps were considerably LARGER than most maps we have here in MWO.

A map like Alpine Peaks, or some of the CW/FW maps are roughly about the length many table top maps were.

Meanwhile, if you've watched any of the "Death From Above" Battletech games by the HyperRPG people, the maps they're using are much smaller, which is also due to the fact they're using 3D printed mechs that are like 6 inches tall, and those maps are closer to the size of maps like Canyon Network, at least lengthwise.

Also have to keep in mind in table top your hits were determined by the luck of the dice, while here in FPS land, you can have perfect, pin point accuracy.

So with the Gauss having probably the fastest projectile speed of all weapons, they needed to be nerfed. Which nerf came first? Wasn't it the charge up mechanic? Followed by the range nerf helped to bring them in line with other weapons and to prevent them from being synced up with other weapons, such as the PPC.

Granted this can be overcome with a macro, but not everyone has to, or wants to game the game to get every advantage they can.

[Tarl Cabot]

The ranges are based on the TT setting. Optimal range is base TT range then there are optional rules that could be used in TT that doubled the base range.

PGI, for all ballistics, initially had them set at 3x base range. Right before the Clans were introduced most of the ballistic ranges were reduced from 3x to 2x.

Ballistic Range Reduction 5-24-2014
http://mwomercs.com/...-they-feedback/

Clan Collection - Release Schedule 6-17-2014 / 11-2014 (cbill release)
http://mwomercs.com/...lease-schedule/

[Mystere]

Cassa Nova, on 19 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Explain, logically mind you, why AC/20s have 270m range? Why do 20mm machine guns only reach out to 120?

There's this magical thing called balance. Now I'm a lore monkey but often times TT values don't work for real time sims. If they did every weapon would have a 10 second reload time across the board.

Balance you say.

Well then, please enlighten us all on what is wrong with an MG with a 1000m range?

Edited by Mystere, 19 January 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

What about nerfing the range on the ppc? I would like to see more ac2 snipers over ppc snipers.

[Bombast]

Monkey Lover, on 19 January 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

What about nerfing the range on the ppc? I would like to see more ac2 snipers over ppc snipers.

I try my best to snipe with AC/2s, but... doesn't hold up so well against Gauss Rifles.

PPCs, though... they are troublesome if they're coming from someone you're not in a sniper dual with, but if it's an AC/2 boat vs. a PPC boat at a decent distance, you'd be surprised how often the PPC carrier is sent running away. Dat velocity.

[AncientRaig]

Cassa Nova, on 19 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Explain, logically mind you, why AC/20s have 270m range? Why do 20mm machine guns only reach out to 120?

There's this magical thing called balance. Now I'm a lore monkey but often times TT values don't work for real time sims. If they did every weapon would have a 10 second reload time across the board.

AC/20s have 270m optimal range because of the lighter powder loads and mechanisms required to fit a 200mm cannon onto a Battlemech without it ripping loose with the first shot. It's short barreled and the rounds are light loaded to reduce recoil. Battletech tried using "long range" autocannons in the form of mech mounted rifles, which were the equivalent to modern day MBT guns, but the weight of the ammo made them ineffective even though they far outranged their autocannon counterparts. A heavy rifle weighed as much as an AC5, had the same range as an AC5 and did 9 damage, but it could only hold 6 shots per ton.

[Cassa Nova]

Mystere, on 19 January 2017 - 06:35 PM, said:

Balance you say.

Well then, please enlighten us all on what is wrong with an MG with a 1000m range?

On TT? Thats an LRM ranged no heat 2 Dmg weapon a turn for minimal weight. In MWO? Nothing really but Paul is scared of them so we're screwed.

Sidefire, on 19 January 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

AC/20s have 270m optimal range because of the lighter powder loads and mechanisms required to fit a 200mm cannon onto a Battlemech without it ripping loose with the first shot. It's short barreled and the rounds are light loaded to reduce recoil. Battletech tried using "long range" autocannons in the form of mech mounted rifles, which were the equivalent to modern day MBT guns, but the weight of the ammo made them ineffective even though they far outranged their autocannon counterparts. A heavy rifle weighed as much as an AC5, had the same range as an AC5 and did 9 damage, but it could only hold 6 shots per ton.

A worthy attempt! Unfortunately AC/20s mounted on tanks also suffer from this lack of range even though they provide more then enough of a stable firing platform for 200mm cannons.

Edited by Cassa Nova, 19 January 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[AncientRaig]

Cassa Nova, on 19 January 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

A worthy attempt! Unfortunately AC/20s mounted on tanks also suffer from this lack of range even though they provide more then enough of a stable firing platform for 200mm cannons.

Actually, I'm still correct. The biggest gun we've ever successfully fitted onto a tank that was effectively able to be used in combat is the 152mm M10-T howitzer that was fitted to the KV-2. It had a very short barrel, a slow rate of fire, insane shell drop-off, and required a turret the size of a shed to house. The tank itself was also slower than a stock Urbanmech. Tanks in BT are more along the lines of modern designs in terms of appearance and top speed. The Rommel tank, for example, looks pretty much exactly like an Abrams. It mounts an AC20. In order to fit a gun MUCH larger than the M10-T in a turret half the size, the gun would need to be much smaller and made of lighter materials. In the Inner Sphere, where technology is rapidly disappearing into LosTech and everyone is too focused on keeping what they do know from being lost to make up new things, why design an entirely new type of cannon just for a tank when you already have production lines geared for a cannon that you do know how to make and you know it's effective? Especially when that cannon might need LosTech materials to make. Autocannons more in line with our concept of tank guns eventually get introduced by 3059 called Hyper Velocity Autocannons. They're larger, heavier, and carry less ammo, but have greatly increased range compared to their standard counterparts.

Edited by Sidefire, 19 January 2017 - 07:38 PM.

[Cybrid 0x0t2md2w]

if you ask me the worst thing about using gauss, or any UAC for that matter, is the fact armor is double in mwo

[El Bandito]

Wesxander, on 19 January 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Seriously nerfing Gauss rifles to 1320 max? It's the longest mech mounted weapon both clan and innersphere period. Now you got clan ER PPCs out range gauss. THAT NEVER HAPPENED. Not even in alternate universe excuse that you been passing around.

ERPPC always had more range than Gauss. It is in the lore. Also, ERPPCs had more range than Gauss in previous MW games.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 January 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[Cassa Nova]

Sidefire, on 19 January 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

Actually, I'm still correct. The biggest gun we've ever successfully fitted onto a tank that was effectively able to be used in combat is the 152mm M10-T howitzer that was fitted to the KV-2. It had a very short barrel, a slow rate of fire, insane shell drop-off, and required a turret the size of a shed to house. The tank itself was also slower than a stock Urbanmech. Tanks in BT are more along the lines of modern designs in terms of appearance and top speed. The Rommel tank, for example, looks pretty much exactly like an Abrams. It mounts an AC20. In order to fit a gun MUCH larger than the M10-T in a turret half the size, the gun would need to be much smaller and made of lighter materials. In the Inner Sphere, where technology is rapidly disappearing into LosTech and everyone is too focused on keeping what they do know from being lost to make up new things, why design an entirely new type of cannon just for a tank when you already have production lines geared for a cannon that you do know how to make and you know it's effective? Especially when that cannon might need LosTech materials to make. Autocannons more in line with our concept of tank guns eventually get introduced by 3059 called Hyper Velocity Autocannons. They're larger, heavier, and carry less ammo, but have greatly increased range compared to their standard counterparts.

The 152mm M10-T still had an effective range of several KMs even with the shortened barrel. And while yes the InnerSphere is in technological decline they can still produce direct energy weapons, to say they can't produce a main cannon specifically for tanks is to say that their industrial capacity has declined to the point where it be worse then the late 1800s early 1900s across HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of worlds.

The same can be said for machine guns, which are often 20-30mm autocannons instead of the stereotypical .50cal. They should have range in the kilometers but after under half a Km are completely non lethal.

That makes not logical sense. It was done for balances sake.