50 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Star Commander Horse, on 20 January 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

Dumb idea:
change all weapon ranges & velocities to as near as possible to real world, theoretical weapons get velocities & ranges related to what real world physics state they would .

Make a Maps the size of tri-counties.
Change game name to "Mechwarrior the simulation."

I might actually like that more than this game

Players would spend 30 minutes just for marching. MWO will lose players faster than quicksand.

If MWO was a Coop game, then I can see that idea working out.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 January 2017 - 06:41 PM.

[a gaijin]

El Bandito, on 20 January 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

Players would spend more 30 minutes just for marching. MWO will lose players faster than quicksand.

If MWO was a Coop game, then I can see that idea working out.

Good point. That's why in that kind of stimulation radar should go around 10 miles out and start the teams off about 20 miles out from each other

[El Bandito]

Star Commander Horse, on 20 January 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

Good point. That's why in that kind of stimulation radar should go around 10 miles out and start the teams off about 20 miles out from each other

Dunno, there is World of Tanks for that kind of engagement. MWO is hanging on, in part because it is not played like WoT.

[Mystere]

Dee Eight, on 19 January 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Nothing...but we're fighting with walking tanks against other walking tanks. Ever looked at the armor penetration figures for tank guns during the second world war (there are tables for naval artillery also btw) ? The shells lose penetration with distance travelled, not to mention what happens if they deflect off the armor because of the angle they strike at.

These are figures for the WW2 german 88mm L/56 as fitted to the Tiger I

8,8 cm Pzgr. 40 APCR 7.3 kg 930 m/s 170 mm 155 mm 138 mm 122 mm 110 mm

And these are the same shell fired from the longer L/71 barrel as fitted to the Tiger II

8,8 cm Pzgr. 40/43 APCR 7.3 kg 1130 m/s 237 mm 217 mm 193 mm 170 mm 152 mm

The ranges for the different penetration values are 100m, 500m, 1000m, 1500m and 2000m. Notice how the longer barreled gun, at 1500 meters is penetrating the same amount of armor as the shorter barreled gun does at 100 meters firing the same shell. Its not that the shell/gun isn't lethal anymore at longer ranges...its that they're not lethal to the same targets any longer. At 2000 meters, that Tiger I gun isn't lethal against the same targets anymore that it was at 500 meters.

Oh, I'm very much aware of those penetration values. I even posted in another thread about wanting impact angles taken into account in this game.

I just want saner ranges and smoother damage drop-offs than these hard-limited ones we have today, especially given that we're using ablative armor in this game.

Pjwned, on 19 January 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

Well, that would be a 1000m range hitscan weapon (because MGs are functionally lasers with an indefinite duration) for only 0.5 tons (or 0.25 for Clans), and assuming it kept the 2x max range it would also be the longest range weapon in the game, so that might get a little bit out of hand.

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 20 January 2017 - 03:10 AM.

[Mystere]

RestosIII, on 20 January 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

I'm just plain bad at getting the timing right based on the sound, and it probably doesn't help that while I'm playing, I'm either listening to Eurobeat or something Shiro Sagisu composed.

Dang it! You should be listening to one of these instead!

El Bandito, on 20 January 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

Players would spend more 30 minutes just for marching. MWO will lose players faster than quicksand.

War Thunder -- especially the air simulation side -- says otherwise.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 20 January 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

War Thunder -- especially the air simulation side -- says otherwise.

I played War Thunder, and in its arcade mode I was able to engage the enemy within 2 minutes after start. Also, MWO is not an easily relatable WWII game where it can draw millions of players. MWO is too niche to try the same **** as WoT or War Thunder.

[a gaijin]

El Bandito, on 20 January 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

Dunno, there is World of Tanks for that kind of engagement. MWO is hanging on, in part because it is not played like WoT.

Funny thing is even though I love simulations I have zero interest in world of tanks.
Battlemechs are waaaay cooler.
And I *would* be interested in a "real" battlemech sim. As long as it was mechwarrior or a very close rip off.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Alan Davion, on 19 January 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

There's a reason for that.

It's called "AlphaWarrior Online" paired with FPS pin-point-perfect accuracy.

Because the heat mechanics are all borked up, as well as the fact all your weapons have perfect pin point convergence... Well, weapons that aren't missiles that is... The TT armor values that MWO started with were woefully, WOEFULLY inadequate to deal with the absurd levels of damage the mechs were capable of dishing out thanks to the ability to fire ALL DA LAZORS at one specific point on a mech.

You don't have this problem in TT because your weapon hits are determined via the roll of the dice, so it was down to luck whether you hit something or not, as well as the fact that if you rolled well enough, you could kill a mech in literally one shot with a through armor critical.

Now, we don't have through armor critical hits in this game, but mechs were still dying just as easily when the game still had TT armor/structure values, because as I said, bad heat mechanics and pin point accuracy lead to mechs like, let's take the Commando for instance.

With TT values it has 8 front CT armor and 8 CT structure. A pair of Large Lasers that hit the Commando's CT leads to one dead mech in literally 2 seconds... Less than 2 seconds actually.

Doubling armor/structure would allow the Commando to actually survive 2 shots from those 2 large lasers. Coupled with the mechs small size and speed, as well as the beam duration of those big guns, the life expectancy of said Commando was increased by a fair amount.

>the TT system was very poor and terrible against other Systems ...like Renegade Legion :Interceptor or WH40k ...TT Pilots thats not can aim single Parts of a 12 m tall Machine shutdown in 30m ...and hit the right feet from the Enemy with the Cockpit from the Enemy in direct Position for it...give the Game the Hitsystem and Ranges from War Thunder Tank included the animated Hitlocalisation

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 20 January 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Carl Vickers, on 19 January 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

As a Davion I thought you have have been happy with the change, closer parity (range wise) with lurms.

Late to the party, so sorry for referencing all the way back to page one, but that right there cracked me up.
Carry on.

[mogs01gt]

Good nerf!

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 20 January 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

Oh, I'm very much aware of those penetration values. I even posted in another thread about wanting impact angles taken into account in this game.

I just want saner ranges and smoother damage drop-offs than these hard-limited ones we have today, especially given that we're using ablative armor in this game.




See above.

Well, I don't want engagement ranges to get ridiculous for multiple reasons, and in my opinion the damage drop-off is pretty smooth already with the 2x max range.

As for "saner" ranges I'm just going to point out that this is a video game, and also that ranges are largely based on TT values which didn't have extreme engagement ranges either, and additionally it would be a nightmare to rework that stuff while keeping it actually balanced & fun.