49 replies to this topic

[KinLuu]

When PGI unified the buckets in FP, they should also have split the queue into Solo- and Group-Queues.

If I a dropping with agroup in FP, I do not want to face PuGs - it will always be a slaughter and no real fun.

If I drop solo in FP, I do not want to face a Group - it will always be a slaughter and no real fun (well, most of the time).

[Skipmagnet]

Lupis Volk, on 19 January 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

There's one issue with that. There is a element of PuG's that refuse to work or join units out of spite from being clubbed or just a general distrust/disgust of player groups.

Beat a dog long enough and he'll snarl every time you raise a hand. Is that the dogs fault? Of course it isn't. The potatoes are being farmed and being told that it's their own fault that they're being farmed. How should they react?

I just think that if you want people to play FW at a level that is challenging to your unit, maybe you should do less farming and more cultivating, so to speak. Maybe there are units out there sending invites to baby seals and future tater tots, but I sincerely doubt it.

[MischiefSC]

eyeballs, on 19 January 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

Beat a dog long enough and he'll snarl every time you raise a hand. Is that the dogs fault? Of course it isn't. The potatoes are being farmed and being told that it's their own fault that they're being farmed. How should they react?

I just think that if you want people to play FW at a level that is challenging to your unit, maybe you should do less farming and more cultivating, so to speak. Maybe there are units out there sending invites to baby seals and future tater tots, but I sincerely doubt it.

I can say that most IS units spent years trying to wrap pugs in, which got them insults 90% of the time. Trying to call a drop on voip with 6+ pugs is still certain to draw an insult.

At this point you'll only see units responding when asked. The majority of pugs respond poorly to attempts to help. They don't want to change, they want to do what they've always done and win more anyway.

[Marius Evander]

KinLuu, on 19 January 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

When PGI unified the buckets in FP, they should also have split the queue into Solo- and Group-Queues.

If I a dropping with agroup in FP, I do not want to face PuGs - it will always be a slaughter and no real fun.

If I drop solo in FP, I do not want to face a Group - it will always be a slaughter and no real fun (well, most of the time).

What he said, it should be grouped and solo queue split and not more than 3 people of same tag "sync dropping" getting into same solo queue game.

Not by unit and non unit, any potato can make a unit.

Also you forgot they added a brand new toy in those few days that split queue's existed so everyone was busy trying the new toy no one was dropping 12 man that 1st week.

[Skipmagnet]

MischiefSC, on 20 January 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

I can say that most IS units spent years trying to wrap pugs in, which got them insults 90% of the time.

There's a difference between 'hey wanna join our unit we'll help you get better' and 'git gud join a unit'. Guess which one I've heard more often? Also remember that a lot of players are simply responding in kind to the treatment they've received in the past. How likely would you be to apply to a unit that stomped your pugs into paste all the while taunting you on open comms about how bad you are and suggesting that you uninstall and/or kill yourself? Yeah, I really want to be one of those guys.

But, hey, lets just keep blaming the potatoes for being potatoes and the problem will work itself out, and we'll have no one to fight in FW except EVIL. That'll be fun.

Edited by eyeballs, 20 January 2017 - 01:29 AM.

[Marius Evander]

eyeballs, on 20 January 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

But, hey, lets just keep blaming the potatoes for being potatoes and the problem will work itself out, and we'll have no one to fight in FW except EVIL. That'll be fun.

SHHHHHH scar already shared too much of the plan dont bring it up again!

[Skipmagnet]

LOL.

But seriously, I think an answer to this might be a renewed effort among the tagless, something more than making a recruitment post and bumping it once a month.

[Lily from animove]

eyeballs, on 20 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

LOL.

But seriously, I think an answer to this might be a renewed effort among the tagless, something more than making a recruitment post and bumping it once a month.

if we have a floating chat as the roadmap suggest we can do that ingame. The forum isn't the right place because this isn't where the majority of players needing this come to.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 January 2017 - 04:18 AM.

[Willard Phule]

eyeballs, on 19 January 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

The potatoes would probably be less starchy if you invited them into your units and trained them as opposed to just shouting 'gg rekt #GitGud' as you farm them.

Just a thought.

Except that years of experience with MW:O tells us that potatoes....true potatoes, deserving of the title....don't listen and can't learn. That's why they're called "potatoes."

[Sjorpha]

I don't think split queue is practically possible, so I'm not going to waste time on the idea.

A little treshold to entering CW is a better idea. Don't allow players to enter until they've played a couple hundred quickplay matches and are out of tier 5.

The unit/tagless split DID actually give us in the unit queue a lot better matches, it was just the tagless queue that didn't work. This was probably because while there was all kinds of skill levels and solos making their single man unit, there was no absolute newbies around, no one jumping into CW the same day they got the game etc. Some kind of friendly resistance is needed here.

[Crockdaddy]

Carl Vickers, on 19 January 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Nah, not enough groups to be filling the 12 mans on the group side, population is too low to support it.

This is teamwork OP mode of the game after all.

We could just limit groups to say 6 ... this would generate an interesting dynamic of pug and groups playing together. I realize this likely would not work but I'd would be open to trying it. EVIL 6 man would still wreck of course and if you get 6 LRM' pugs on your side you are screwed. Just an idea.

[MischiefSC]

eyeballs, on 20 January 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

There's a difference between 'hey wanna join our unit we'll help you get better' and 'git gud join a unit'. Guess which one I've heard more often? Also remember that a lot of players are simply responding in kind to the treatment they've received in the past. How likely would you be to apply to a unit that stomped your pugs into paste all the while taunting you on open comms about how bad you are and suggesting that you uninstall and/or kill yourself? Yeah, I really want to be one of those guys.

But, hey, lets just keep blaming the potatoes for being potatoes and the problem will work itself out, and we'll have no one to fight in FW except EVIL. That'll be fun.

Having pug bossed hundreds of FW matches from FW1 to FW4 while pugging or in a small group I can say I've never said that not been in a team that said that. Usually it's "we're pushing left gate. Please come with us and don't hang back, we'll play as a team and win as a team."

Sometimes ignored, sometimes insults and profanity as a response. I've rarely been on a team that doesn't try to wrap the few willing pugs in to the strat. If they listen, great. Usually they don't or hide on a hill sniping and end the match with sub 500 damage. We lost a match the other day specifically due to that - pug hiding the whole match "sniping". Time ran out, we lost with all of us out of mechs but him with 3 left, lost by 2 kills.

Happy to work with and play with pugs who play to the team. They are the absolute minority, most are terrible and aggressively resistant to help of any sort.

[JaegerDjinn]

Did most of you in this thread ever think it is you who are the problem. You come here and cry about the new players and I havent seen most of anyone here answering too a new members post looking for a team too join. Instead of crying about them, why dont you invite them in too your team [not hope someone else will train them] and fix the problem yourself. Because PGI wont.

[JaegerDjinn]

MischiefSC, on 20 January 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Having pug bossed hundreds of FW matches from FW1 to FW4 while pugging or in a small group I can say I've never said that not been in a team that said that. Usually it's "we're pushing left gate. Please come with us and don't hang back, we'll play as a team and win as a team."

Sometimes ignored, sometimes insults and profanity as a response. I've rarely been on a team that doesn't try to wrap the few willing pugs in to the strat. If they listen, great. Usually they don't or hide on a hill sniping and end the match with sub 500 damage. We lost a match the other day specifically due to that - pug hiding the whole match "sniping". Time ran out, we lost with all of us out of mechs but him with 3 left, lost by 2 kills.

Happy to work with and play with pugs who play to the team. They are the absolute minority, most are terrible and aggressively resistant to help of any sort.

Mischief i have too say of all here the 22nd Argyle is one that i usually see answer too a new players post. Salute and keep fighting the good fight

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

jjyn, on 22 January 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

Did most of you in this thread ever think it is you who are the problem. You come here and cry about the new players and I havent seen most of anyone here answering too a new members post looking for a team too join. Instead of crying about them, why dont you invite them in too your team [not hope someone else will train them] and fix the problem yourself. Because PGI wont.

We talk about not just new players, but old players stuck in their ways who do not wish to change. I go on the steam forums all the time to answer new players and help out and occasionally go by the new player forum here.

New players who ask questions and are willing to learn are great, players who refuse to get better while whining about how others are better are what I dislike.

[Knighthawk26]

Auto cannons to slice them, followed by lasers to fry them. Yum, delicious french fries (or chips if you like).

[Willard Phule]

eyeballs, on 19 January 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

The potatoes would probably be less starchy if you invited them into your units and trained them as opposed to just shouting 'gg rekt #GitGud' as you farm them. Just a thought.

Except that potatoes don't listen and are physically unable to learn. That's why they're called "potatoes."

[beaver1776]

Crockdaddy, on 20 January 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

We could just limit groups to say 6 ... this would generate an interesting dynamic of pug and groups playing together. I realize this likely would not work but I'd would be open to trying it. EVIL 6 man would still wreck of course and if you get 6 LRM' pugs on your side you are screwed. Just an idea.

Crockdaddy, I think you are right on the money here. I would like to see all the "good" players buy in and make this a reality. Truth is, there is no real mechanism in this game for learning how to play.

I would also like to see PGI have some resource references available in the game, links to places that will help these new players learn what works and why it works, if they want to know. Nothing in the game explains why you might want this weapon over that or, why choose this mech over that one in these circumstances. Links to NGNG, metamechs, HPG Outreach, community developed guides...anything. There are a lot of complex options in this game that are surely confusing new players.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

eyeballs, on 20 January 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

There's a difference between 'hey wanna join our unit we'll help you get better' and 'git gud join a unit'. Guess which one I've heard more often? Also remember that a lot of players are simply responding in kind to the treatment they've received in the past. How likely would you be to apply to a unit that stomped your pugs into paste all the while taunting you on open comms about how bad you are and suggesting that you uninstall and/or kill yourself? Yeah, I really want to be one of those guys.

But, hey, lets just keep blaming the potatoes for being potatoes and the problem will work itself out, and we'll have no one to fight in FW except EVIL. That'll be fun.

Back at steam release, my old unit, which is very newb friendly made a concerted effort to invite everyone onto our teamspeak or point them towards their chosen faction teamspeak. What we were met with in response was almost always silence, and the few that did respond were negative in nature. That is when we realized that all chat was off by default. So after long enough of the negative responses, we just stopped trying.

If you found the forums, then check the recruiting threads, there are many many new player friendly units in every faction willing to help. Also, I've never in 3+ years of playing this game had new people come onto a team speak and them not get the questions answered in a cordial manner. Sometimes we do ask for you to wait till a drop is done, but from my experiences this gaming community has always been very willing to help IF a player is willing to take the first step and get on a TS.

[beaver1776]

Jaybles, on 23 January 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Back at steam release, my old unit, which is very newb friendly made a concerted effort to invite everyone onto our teamspeak or point them towards their chosen faction teamspeak. What we were met with in response was almost always silence, and the few that did respond were negative in nature. That is when we realized that all chat was off by default. So after long enough of the negative responses, we just stopped trying.

If you found the forums, then check the recruiting threads, there are many many new player friendly units in every faction willing to help. Also, I've never in 3+ years of playing this game had new people come onto a team speak and them not get the questions answered in a cordial manner. Sometimes we do ask for you to wait till a drop is done, but from my experiences this gaming community has always been very willing to help IF a player is willing to take the first step and get on a TS.

I hope everyone makes a point to clarify those items we experienced gamers take as common knowledge. I would make sure to tell them "our chat program, Teamspeak". Often, in game, teammates will say "get on TS at xxx.xx.xxx:xxxx". I worry that newer players may be thinking "what is TS?".