139 replies to this topic

[Jingseng]

Balance means nerfing clans only.

No mad IIc quirks, because upcoming changes.. ok, reasonable. Hey bushie, have some quirks.

Wut.

MG rof, that clearly only benefits clans... Totally not a thing on certain IS chassis.

Jump sniping? Only clans can! And rather than do something about a legit tactic, let's apply a nerf in some other aspect! Players who dont jump snipe will be affected, and in other modes, in a bunch of chassis! For the sake of those who do, in primarily the one chassis, in the one game mode.

Because suddenly we care about player perception of paywalls and the money issue.

But we are happy to sell you a decal of our own logo so you can advertise for us (kinda makes me think about buying a pgi decal and a letter X so I can overlap them... except that's them winning twice). And nerf the **** out of the things you payed a premium for. And delay things for months until the paywall crumbles into a different paywall. And then wait a few more months until no one cares to unpaywall.

But look, we are 'nerfing' IS guys! It will take like one med laser less to completely blow out a section! Except it will be more like 5, because lol, durations...

To understand pgi's nerfing and balancing:
1) identify the problem
2) do something unrelated to the problem
3) repeat until problem is solved.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

MacClearly, on 23 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

You couldn't be more wrong.

Go look up how it works. Yes damage is heavily factored. However it would be incredibly difficult to climb the psr bar with damage alone.

That you somehow think that it doesn't give weight towards wins is a strong indication that you have no idea how the system works at all.

I know this sounds harsh but if you were to look it up, which there are lots of posts on it, you can see for yourself how important winning is a factor in the current system.

That is untrue as I proved to you... I farmed the PSR to fill up half the Teir 2 bar in just 2 days using nothing but an AWS-8R. Getting around 400-500 damage stops the PSR from going down on a loss and getting like 800 damage raises it even on loss. So it is very easy to raise your Tier up, I got Tier 1 in 2 days just to make a point about it to you.

remember?

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 23 January 2017 - 05:42 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

I really don't get the shc nerfs... would love to be allowed to be allowed to analyse their data as these patches notes and what I'm currently experiencing/ aware of when I play doesn't match up. Maybe I'm obvious...

The nipple ppc summoner and quirks is an absolute beast... I have read various comments about how could this be the case? as on paper a 2xerppc looks pretty average for a heavy... I guess if you don't have the nipples currently you won't be able to try it as it is... IMO if these ST Omni's were available in cbills as it stands pre patch, then I believe most people would be of the same opinion and reckon more than a few would be demanding change... as for how well implemented/targeted/effective the nerfs to the summoner are... shrugs.

[DovisKhan]

Albino Boo, on 21 January 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

Why is your view more valid than that of tier 3 player? There are more of them than tier 1 players.
It does not take to genius to work that aggregating all the stats from all the players and running them through a spreadsheet to compare performance and see what sits outside the normal standard deviation. Time is money, explaining to very small number of people that actually care has no upside. If you breakdown the actual analysis then some people will try and gimp the scores deliberately. Alt accounts cost nothing.

Because if they ever want this game to be more than a joke as an e-sport, you ONLY balance by T1


If they stop doing as an e-sport, drop tiers entirely, scrap the near dead faction warfare and focus all attention on providing good quickplay experience coupled with a 1 v 1 mode for epeen seekers, they can balance it by potato, otherwise anything but T1 balancing is invalid

Edited by DovisKhan, 23 January 2017 - 11:58 PM.

[Jingseng]

that presumes quite strictly that tier is a 100% accurate representation of skill.


That's the kind of thinking that gets us the nonsense random 'balancing' that we have.

[Lances107]

The Summoner to me is a unnecessary nerf. Here they are buffing the Dragon, but nerfing the summoner. This is from my old Mechwarrior four maual on mechs/payloads. The summoner should be able to equip two clan ultra ac/5s, for clan er medium lasers, one clan machine gun, and one clan LRM 15. In mechwarrior online it can only carry two clan ultra ac/5s and two er medium lasers. To me this really sums up the Summoner to a T. This is the main reason why its not favored by many. MW4 It was all about the campaign and having fun using all aspects and loadouts. Here in Mechwarrior online its about how powerful is your alpha strike on a firing line, or how much consistent damage are you doing.

This also brings us to the attitude when it comes to the clans. We are considered op which is funny. Last season, I think it was the last, Jade falcon marched all the way through steiner territory. I thought Jade falcon was doing good, only to discover, that the it was wait for it...... Inner sphere merc uints that were doing the heavy lifting. If your looking at a map you make the assumption, but if you dig into it, you find out something completely different.

I guess my point is on the clans and the summoner if you really dig into wants going on, gain actual practical knowledge, you find out your numbers are all shot to hell. What they are telling you is in fact a lie.

Either way a mechwarrior in my unit said it best. The nerfs are wrong, but a good mechwarrior will be able to adapt. They can keep nerfing, what is considered the below average clan mech via PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE, into the ground. Me I am going to keep screwing with it until I make it work. So some day I can take it into an invasion knowing I am not hurting my unit.

[Ano]

Tristan Winter, on 23 January 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

People have different playstyles and, in the solo queue, playing against pugs, average players can get good results with non-standard mechs and builds. You'll see Elettro get good results in his PPC Vindicator, for example. He's been playing that for years.

But that is no way to balance a game. First of all, while I may get good results in my SHC, that doesn't change the fact that most people don't. And second of all, while I may get good results against potatoes, I am under no illusion that I would be able to get good results against teams of good players in my "super stock" Shadow Cat Prime. Just because it works for me in solo queue, doesn't mean it would work for elite players going up against elite players.

I agree, and I think Widowmaker made a good point at the start of the thread that balance should be done based on the very good players, but not necessarily the absolute *best* players.

The only caveat I would add is that while it's silly to base all of your balance decisions on the experiences of relatively new or relatively unskilled players (i.e. low tiers), it's important to remain aware of how effective different mechs/weapons/tactics are at low tiers and it may sometimes be necessary to make adjustments to rein in certain builds/mechs/weapons that are disproportionately effective for at that level of play -- if for no other reason than that group is likely to include a significant number of new players (relatively speaking) and it's quite sensible to make some tweaks to balance to make that level of play a little more even.

As a for instance, I sometimes think that the "LRMs are overpowered" complaints that crop up from time to time are heavily influenced by the radar deprivation module. As a new player, you want to try new mechs and builds, not save all your GXP and Cbill earnings to buy something which doesn't let you do anything new (the RD module). Couple that with a lower level of map knowledge and less experience in building mechs and it would be easy to find yourself significantly damaged by LRMs before you were able to fire a shot.

{this isn't me arguing that LRMs should be nerfed or buffed; if anything I think radar derp should be either removed or 'built-in', so that getting pulverised by LRMs is based solely on standing in the wrong place rather than whether you knew to buy the module}

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 23 January 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

That is untrue as I proved to you... I farmed the PSR to fill up half the Teir 2 bar in just 2 days using nothing but an AWS-8R. Getting around 400-500 damage stops the PSR from going down on a loss and getting like 800 damage raises it even on loss. So it is very easy to raise your Tier up, I got Tier 1 in 2 days just to make a point about it to you.

remember?

Well except that I have proven repeatedly that you are not even close to a reliable source.

It is absolutely true that 800 damage can net you a small increase in a loss. I have also repeatedly mentioned the threshold to not go down in a loss and it is pretty much common knowledge.

However, moving the bar from half way from tier 2 to tier 1 is not possible in two days. Even on large increases such as doing 1200 or 1400 damage in a match you win it does move but a couple pixels.

You also claimed you had only been playing in the tier system for five months and where in 2. The leaderboards had you on there for longer than that. You also said incredibly foolish things when trying to argue your point such as offering up alleged friend requests as proof of how great you are at the game. Add to that not being able to accept that the game is a first person shooter and insisting it was an rts. So no, any reasonable person would never take anything you have say as proof of anything. You don't understand the very basics of what is reasonable proof to offer up or the concept of evidence. Due to this you will never be able to prove anything to me without hard evidence such as info collected by a third party or photos (before and after such as where your tier bar was when you miraculously changed it in two days).

Edited by MacClearly, 24 January 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

MacClearly, on 23 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Right...it is heavily biased towards winning but if you put out 450+ damage you won't go down. I know this because I am climbing with .82 wlr which is absolutely terrible.

This doesn't change that it is not simply an exp bar nor is it ineffctive at separating really terrible players from competent ones.

I have to disagree, while it's not designed to be an XP bar, and there allegedly are people that are losing XP and even tiers I find that hard to believe unless they are really appalling players because no matter how badly I play and how long my losing streak is, or how frustrating the game gets, I'm slightly under halfway to T1

[Widowmaker1981]

Dee Eight, on 22 January 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

And some of us play waaaaaaayyyyy more games than T1 forum complainers. In another thread I think friday, some T1 said he rarely sees the poptart HBK2C ERPPC build and thus didn't understand them being nerfed with less torso twist... I commented I see them about 20% of my games. On a hunch I looked at his leader board results for just the current month just to count matches. About 50 FW games and 110 QP games. I'm currently at 98 FW and 542 QP games.

Riiight.

So because ive been on a bit of a break playing the Wood Elves in Total War: Warhammer this month, plus have a job, a girlfriend and a social life, my opinion is less valid. Makes a huge amount of sense. Number of games played is an indicator of the amount of time you have available, nothing more. (and im not saying there is anything wrong with playing all the time, its your time, spend it how you want)

[Dimento Graven]

Dee Eight, on 22 January 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

And some of us play waaaaaaayyyyy more games than T1 forum complainers. In another thread I think friday, some T1 said he rarely sees the poptart HBK2C ERPPC build and thus didn't understand them being nerfed with less torso twist... I commented I see them about 20% of my games. On a hunch I looked at his leader board results for just the current month just to count matches. About 50 FW games and 110 QP games. I'm currently at 98 FW and 542 QP games.

Out of curiosity, have you just started playing this game?

Or are you primarily playing in LOL-builds?

If you're playing that much and still only T3 I find it odd, unless you've recently started or are playing 'junk builds' for fun, or something...

[BWS2K]

I started a similar thread here, for any interested. Bottom line: We can't meet a standard of performance that we aren't aware of, no matter the mech, mode, map, or tier.

[MacClearly]

Cathy, on 24 January 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

I have to disagree, while it's not designed to be an XP bar, and there allegedly are people that are losing XP and even tiers I find that hard to believe unless they are really appalling players because no matter how badly I play and how long my losing streak is, or how frustrating the game gets, I'm slightly under halfway to T1

The way it functions has been outlined in other threads. If you are not going down and rising steady then you are likely doing ok even in losses a good deal of the time. Either that or when you win you are doing so spectacularly.

The system is not without faults. A high alpha assault or heavy if played all the time would likely cause a player who finds a couple of guys to shoot a lot, to have a steady increase. However he would at least have to know the maps and some positioning to not get picked apart and be able to get into position.

For now until they come up with something else that perhaps kicks in at tier 1 to further separate the truly elites, I am not sure why it is so hard for people. I am not that good and I have at times felt as though PGI has me on some sort of list of aggravants that they have singled out for horrendeous teams. When I am on a team that do ridiculous things such as the assaults running to cap while the lights run head first trying to solo the entire enemy, I generally can do or practise something and at least get something out of the game. Of coarse there are times where I just end up being hopelessly outnumbered and die instantly, but more often than not I can find something to try and accomplish.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jingseng, on 23 January 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

Balance means nerfing clans only.

No mad IIc quirks, because upcoming changes.. ok, reasonable. Hey bushie, have some quirks.

Wut.

Well, MAD-IIC (no quirks) >>>> BSW (w/ quirks) so that kind of makes sense.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 January 2017 - 01:44 PM.

[Catra Lanis]

Cathy, on 23 January 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Slightly off topic as it doesn't involve the summoner, or the shadowcat, but I had two games today in my Loyalty Stalker, where I got four kills and over 800 damage,

I'm now worried that the stats will say it needs to be nerfed as statistics are a clear indicator of how OP something is...clearly..

I was thinking the same, I had several 600+ matches and a 880 in my Victor. Since very few use them (at least I don't encounter many) I half expected it to be nerfed the next morning.

[Khobai]

i didnt think it was possible for PGI to make me want to play their game even less

yet somehow theyve succeeded

the recent nerfs to clan mechs just make me not want to play. at all.

Quote

Balance means nerfing clans only.

meanwhile the IS XL engine is still useless on most IS mechs.

because in paul's mind nerfing clan XL into the ground is better than making IS XL a viable alternative.

and nerfing mechs like the kitfox and shadowcat is just LOL. were machine gun kitfoxes really tearing it up so much that they had to nerf them? ahahahaha

Edited by Khobai, 24 January 2017 - 03:35 PM.

[Grayseven]

Khobai, on 24 January 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

i didnt think it was possible for PGI to make me want to play their game even less

yet somehow theyve succeeded

the recent nerfs to clan mechs just make me not want to play. at all.



meanwhile the IS XL engine is still useless on most IS mechs.

because in paul's mind nerfing clan XL into the ground is better than making IS XL a viable alternative.

and nerfing mechs like the kitfox and shadowcat is just LOL. were machine gun kitfoxes really tearing it up so much that they had to nerf them? ahahahaha

I can tell you that that my SHC just felt like a free kill today. Not easy to survive in the face of laser or SRM vomit, not fast enough to escape. A few hits to any location and it was smoked, lost main weaponry fast in every match. Mech isn't fast enough to be a scout or strong enough to be medium support at this time. Guess I'll hide behind the assaults and provide ECM coverage until I get them mastered.

Wish I had known this was coming before dropping MC and C-Bills on the chassis.

[Jingseng]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 January 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well, MAD-IIC (no quirks) >>>> BSW (w/ quirks) so that kind of makes sense.

I don't deny the reality of that. But the LOGIC employed in the earlier case (mad IIc) is curiously absent in the later case (bsw) where it would apply EVEN MORE STRONGLY.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jingseng, on 24 January 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

I don't deny the reality of that. But the LOGIC employed in the earlier case (mad IIc) is curiously absent in the later case (bsw) where it would apply EVEN MORE STRONGLY.

Uh, I was pretty sure they said that the MAD-IIC got no quirks because it was already a very strong performer.

[PeferG17]

Someone might have already said this, but it seems a little strange that the SHC nerf happens about a month before a Light and Medium mech are getting released... it almost feels like they don't want the anti-light/medium mech streak boats to be able to do their job...
I'm onto you PGI...

Sincerely,
a pissed off owner of 5 Shadowcats