48 replies to this topic

[Tina Benoit]

Regarding the community-created Warhammer Builds here: https://mwomercs.com...champion-build/

Let's discuss the top 3 voted Warhammer builds! Answer the following:
- Which one of the below 3 builds do you think should get implemented as the champion?
- Why would this fit best as the Warhammer Champion?
- Is your pick new-player friendly? If so, how?

Build #1: Warhammer 6D
Build #2: Warhammer 6R
Build #3: Warhammer 6D


Discuss! Also please try to keep it fairly short as a designer will be taking their time to review this thread to make the final call.

[Scout Derek]

Short And Simple. You got it.

Build #3. It fits well as the champion in that it has a reasonable speed and Cooling Efficiency, as well as being user friendly for the fact that the build, unlike the others, uses a Standard Engine. It teaches new players that if they lose a side torso, that they're going to have a harder time being in the fight, as to the other two builds which simply penalize new players more severely, that being death and not being able to recover, when they lose a torso.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I pick build #1, it gives new players a good mech for if they drop into faction play and also gets them used to using XLs in an IS mech, something they should learn before buying a mech themselves.

[Moebius Pi]

Build #1; decent weapon synch and a bit of lpl range, manageable heat without being undergunned, moves at a reasonable speed, and (honestly) there should be at least one XL heavy hitter around for new players to get used to the benefits vs the drawbacks. It doesn't hurt to have one meta-like variant available to play and learn with (though I'd hope their would be a STD engine Trial heavy alongside to learn the differences).

IF there isn't a std engine heavy trial alternative, then STD engine variant is more forgiving to a new player on the surface, until they realize they don't have good re-positioning speed, they twist and turn sluggishly and the speed it moves at (specially compared to say, a Clan trial mech) without speed tweak isn't so great. Depends on the second trial heavily honestly imho.

[YUyahoo]

Build #3 why? Standard engine.

[Dee Eight]

Build #2. Shotguns and no ghost heat.

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 January 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[Tarogato]

Build #1 - good build

Build #2 - bad build. Just because you can fill all the hardpoints doesn't mean you actually should.

Build #3 - bad build. Not very efficient. Slower than it needs to be. Does the same thing as Build #1 but worse.



I cannot vote for any of these builds. I'm against choosing a laservomit build, because the Grasshopper already does that. Ballistics are what makes the Warhammer different, and I would recommend a ballistic build, similar to Build #2, but that particular build is absolutely terrible and I don't know how it accrued enough votes to get in.

If there was a build that had any of the following, I would vote for it:

- 2x UAC5 + 2 LPL
- 2x UAC5 + 2 PPC
- 2x UAC5 + 4 ML (or more)
- 2x LB10 + 4 ML
- 2x RAC5 + 4 ML (yes you heard me right, RAC5 later this year)

Edited by Tarogato, 24 January 2017 - 01:36 AM.

[Horseman]

Build #3.

While I don't really like any of the three builds, this is the least awful. The other two builds have a suicidal fixation on XLs. The hammers are durable enough to lose a side (that huge, boxy, easily targeted side) and keep on ticking, an advantage XL builds negate entirely. STD engines are newbie-friendly on the account of not turning unwareness of damage rolling into an instant death penalty.

[Hauptmann Krause]

Build #2. It forces you to close distance, dish a large alpha strike, then twist out return fire.

[Gas Guzzler]

Build #2 is by far the worst! PLEASE do not use that one, it will teach new players the wrong way to build mechs.

Build #1 is the most optimized, moves at a good speed and has good firepower, and it doesn't incur heat scale so new players will not have to worry about that. It gives new players access to one of the top IS heavy builds, I choose Build #1.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 January 2017 - 11:29 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 January 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Build #2 is by far the worst! PLEASE do not use that one, it will teach new players the wrong way to build mechs.

Build #1 is the most optimized, moves at a good speed and has good firepower, and it doesn't incur heat scale so new players will not have to worry about that. It gives new players access to one of the top IS heavy builds, I choose Build #1.

Seconded, new players desperately need some good builds. Build 2 is terrible, its a franken build brawler that still has less firepower than medium mech brawlers, bad cooling, lots of rear armor, and brings an XL engine while trying to brawl with a sub-optimal loadout is never a good idea. Please do not give new players Build #2, you're just asking for whine threads and for new IS players to join faction play and get destroyed in that terrible configuration.

Build 1 is the superior choice.

[Duck Laurent]

I would prefer build #1, I use this one with a slightly different arrangement of the MLs.

#3 doesn't take full advantage of its potential, #2 is too overcrowded.

[Kuaron]

Build #3.

More new player friendly due to the STD already, I guess.

It seems well designed with a shield side with no LPLs in it. I’d just strip the leg armour a bit in favour of the shield arm.
Also, being the 6D variant and following the argumentation of a famous youtuber, it’s more fair for the buyers of the collector’s pack (which I don’t belong to) if the champ will be a different variant than the 6R they already have as (S).

[Hobbles v]

2 and 3 are garbage builds. #2 looks almost like a stock build and will encourage new players to build useless builds like that. It's also too short ranged. Especially with qp maps dominating fp.

#3 is far too slow especially because they won't have speed tweak.

#1 is one of the best. 6d builds out there. I fear it will be unmanageable heat wise due to lack of even basic skills. I would cut 1 medium laser and upgrade the engine to make up for the lack of speed and heat efficiency from skills.

Edited by Hobbles v, 25 January 2017 - 07:23 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Anyone complaining about build #2 needs to actually play it themselves first, or watch the video for it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Anyone complaining about build #2 needs to actually play it themselves first, or watch the video for it.

Just trying to give new players the best chance at succeeding. They can get creative in the mechlab when they get to that point, but they should have access to effective builds so they have more fun as they learn the game.

[Dee Eight]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 January 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Just trying to give new players the best chance at succeeding. They can get creative in the mechlab when they get to that point, but they should have access to effective builds so they have more fun as they learn the game.

So builds where they shut down from heat faster and have to rely on lower DPS/longer burn laser face tanking is somehow... BETTER for new players ? Both builds #1 and #3 are built around the 6D, purely no doubt for its number of energy hardpoints and not its current quirks (as the 7S has better laser duration quirking and a turn rate agility quirk). The one with the two LPL & 5 ML has too little rear armor for a new player. As to complaints Larsh's build is too short ranged... LB-10Xs shoot a lot further than LPLs do, and more importantly, its alpha strike number is higher and even if the target is 500 meters away, its going to be doing more damage for 4 heat than the other two builds would do with all their lasers combined for ridiculous heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

So builds where they shut down from heat faster and have to rely on lower DPS/longer burn laser face tanking is somehow... BETTER for new players ? Both builds #1 and #3 are built around the 6D, purely no doubt for its number of energy hardpoints and not its current quirks (as the 7S has better laser duration quirking and a turn rate agility quirk). The one with the two LPL & 5 ML has too little rear armor for a new player. As to complaints Larsh's build is too short ranged... LB-10Xs shoot a lot further than LPLs do, and more importantly, its alpha strike number is higher and even if the target is 500 meters away, its going to be doing more damage for 4 heat than the other two builds would do with all their lasers combined for ridiculous heat.

Your evaluation is completely flawed. I don't have to convince you though. I already offered my feedback to these builds. If PGI wants to give new players sub-optimal haphazard builds, that is their call.

[Dee Eight]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 January 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Your evaluation is completely flawed. I don't have to convince you though. I already offered my feedback to these builds. If PGI wants to give new players sub-optimal haphazard builds, that is their call.

Well I felt your evaluation was completely flawed also. So we agree on something.

[Tarogato]

Dee Eight, on 25 January 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Anyone complaining about build #2 needs to actually play it themselves first, or watch the video for it.

Putting a build in a youtube video and talking about it doesn't make it a good build.


It's a 73-kph XL brawling Warhammer. That combination is an absolute deathtrap for new players. It doesn't have *ANY* range, it absolutely must get within 150 meters to be effective. Meanwhile everybody knows, "ahahaha, it's that trash slow XL brawling WHM-6R(C) trial mech. Free XL kill! Mine mine mine mine mine!"

Also, 430 damage worth of SRM ammo for only one single lonely SRM4? Plus it adds a missile box above your shoulder that gives more people an excuse to try and get a free XL kill off of you.

If you want an actual brawling warhammer, this is more effective: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19e23ac0e1ea4c8

It may also be XL, but at least it goes 79 kph in order to close distance, and the medium lasers can reach out at least as far as the LB10 (which is most effective within 200 meters due to its spread), so it's not useless outside of 150m.. If you're not running a build similar to that, I wouldn't recommending brawling in a Warhammer. But I still wouldn't recommend this build for a trial mech either, on the basis that brawling does not play to the Warhammer's strengths.

At least when 3060 tech arrives, it would make sense to run this with 6 ER small lasers, but I still wouldn't recommend it for a trial mech: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...949126dd6c645aa


I would recommend a trial Warhammer that can engage at least at 450 meters or greater. Remember also that it may be a good idea for there to be actually good trial mechs for CW.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 January 2017 - 09:27 AM.