48 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

The only one of those that isn't garbage is 1. It needs less back armor. 3 could be made kindof passable with a shift of some armor from legs to the left arm, but it's still a weak version of 1. 2 is just a hot mess. A single SRM4 should never be included on any build.

[Luscious Dan]

Build #1 handles a 2 weapon group setup better for new players, having the mediums all on one side. I've run very similar 6D setups before, they're fine.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I cannot in good conscience recommend any of these builds.

Builds 1 and 3 are both heat management nightmares for a new player. New players are not going to have the heat-related skills/efficiencies necessary to pilot them effectively. They are also not going to be skilled enough at managing fire groups and monitoring heat while playing to avoid a shutdown in a critical situation. Worsening the issue, while Large Pulse Lasers have more range than Medium Lasers, they are also a CQC kind of weapon, and the difference in optimal range is relatively small, thus encouraging worse firing habits and more overheating, and therefore a much harder time for the pilot.

Both of these builds also have low enough rear armor that a single appropriately equipped light or fast medium 'mech behind the pilot will end the fight immediately. While an experienced pilot with good torso twisting skills, timed-fire skills, and positioning experience can avoid such a situation, new players need to have at least one chance per game to go 'oops' and try to fix things instead of suddenly faceplanting, which 5 or 8 rear torso armor simply will not allow.


Build number two, on the other hand, is a different kind of mess. Warhammers in general do not have the kind of quirks currently or build options generally to really leverage a pair of LB-X autocannon, and furthermore you're using an XL engine with a very ammo-heavy loadout (probably more ammo than is necessary, really, given the lack of fire-rate boosting). The mounting of an SRM-4 additionally adds not only more ammo to explode (and two tonnes is far more than a single 4-rack needs) but it also eats the tonnage that should be used to beef up the laser complement here in the hands of a new player.

Please remember that an LB-X autocannon, particularly a 10-X, is not generally a primary weapon, it's a secondary weapon. Using it effectively is difficult, and requires something else to 'punch holes' for it or the 'mech is going to be regularly outgunned in situations where it's encountering a relatively fresh enemy. I would strongly recommend against mounting more than one LB-X autocannon on this thing to begin with, and the weight savings can be used to step down to a standard engine AND beef up the laser compliment by increasing energy weapon sizes- a large laser or PPC in the same shoulder as a single LB-X has a fair bit of potential. Still wouldn't put that in a new player's hands, though.


In short, all three of these 'mechs are a mess in the hands of a new player and I would strongly recommend against using any of them as a Champion build.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 26 January 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[Soviet Alex]

Builds 1 or 3, it doesn't matter which. New players would be badly let down by the LB10X.

[Y E O N N E]

Some new players...are gonna get rekt.

Begrudgingly vote 1.

[A FluffyKitten]

build 2
versatile
good heat efficiency

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

These are all pretty awful. I think I have to eliminate 3 right off. XL Warhammers are horrible for new players, and laservomit may hit hard but it makes for terrible heat management for inexperienced players. I have to go with 2.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Builds 1 and 3 are very similar and boring laser vomit builds, the main difference being the XL or STD engine.

New players most often dont know how to twist and hence get CT Cored anyway, so i think the XL option is better for speed and firepower. as well as only Left side LPL and right side ML's make easier to control fire groups.

Build 2 is an abomination. and should have the SRM removed and the 2 AC10 5 ML version of the same build. Simple, better range, yet still a great brawler. LBX listed total range vs actual effective range (200-300m) really throws off new players when they are learning and wasting ammo at targets well outside useful range.

Hence from the poor options provided I'd vote Build 1.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 26 January 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

Why is there ammo in an XL side torso on #2? Who voted this up? People, come on, be nice to the pugs!

#1, I guess.

(Really though, there is space in the leg. Can we replace #2 with something else?)

[Cato Zilks]

Yeah, I am sorry. I can't vote for this crap.

I vote for #4, from Gman:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76cb461703fea03

[Kmieciu]

Build #1 New players need to have an oportuinity to use IS XL engine in a free trial mech.

[BodakOfSseth]

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Regarding the community-created Warhammer Builds here: https://mwomercs.com...champion-build/

Let's discuss the top 3 voted Warhammer builds! Answer the following:
- Which one of the below 3 builds do you think should get implemented as the champion?
- Why would this fit best as the Warhammer Champion?
- Is your pick new-player friendly? If so, how?

Build #3: Warhammer 6D


Discuss! Also please try to keep it fairly short as a designer will be taking their time to review this thread to make the final call.

New champ: Build 3.

Why: It has the 2nd highest alpha strike of the 3 builds and hits a good spot of mobility, firepower and durability. It's a good contrast to the GHR champion; slightly slower and tankier for the same weight and technology base.

New Player Friendly? YES.
How: Fairly high LPLs and 3x MLas, the STD engine and 400 points of armor are all good, new-player friendly qualities. when I tried the GHR as a new player it was too fragile and hard to handle. This version should be quite good for newbs.
The biggest downside for newbs is the almost nonexistent rear armor because they're not going to be as aware of backstabbers. But, that's the current meta.

[Wraith 1]

Build #1 is far and away the best option here. It has significantly better firepower than build #3, and the extra maneuverability will help more with survival than a standard engine will. You have to twist pretty well to make a standard even remotely worthwhile nowadays, and neither laservomit builds nor new players are known for twisting well.

As for build #2...

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Cato Zilks, on 26 January 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

Yeah, I am sorry. I can't vote for this crap.

I vote for #4, from Gman:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76cb461703fea03

Would love to see this build up there. How did build #2 even get on the board with an option like that?

Edited by Dakota1000, 29 January 2017 - 03:59 AM.

[Mr D One]

#2 for something different, but the common champion build is IS 3 x LG Pulse, 2 - 4 Med lasers.

[Dee Eight]

Cato Zilks, on 26 January 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

Why is there ammo in an XL side torso on #2? Who voted this up? People, come on, be nice to the pugs!

#1, I guess.

(Really though, there is space in the leg. Can we replace #2 with something else?)

Because ammo explosions do not actually happen with the frequency people seem to think they do, and the torso bins will empty before the leg bins do, and then they become empty crit padding bins. And NO we cannot replace #2 with something else. That's how folks voted.

Edited by Dee Eight, 29 January 2017 - 12:09 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

Dee Eight, on 29 January 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Because ammo explosions do not actually happen with the frequency people seem to think they do, and the torso bins will empty before the leg bins do, and then they become empty crit padding bins. And NO we cannot replace #2 with something else. That's how folks voted.

No, that is how people liked. People like things for being funny, but we keep using this inherently flawed voting system that does not reward smart builds, it rewards being first and being humorous.

[Dee Eight]

Cato Zilks, on 30 January 2017 - 11:19 PM, said:

No, that is how people liked. People like things for being funny, but we keep using this inherently flawed voting system that does not reward smart builds, it rewards being first and being humorous.

Making every champion mech a laser vomit build is not being smart. We already have a champion 70 ton laser vomit IS heavy called the grasshopper, which is more mobile and at present better quirked for high heat energy loads. There's no need to make another champion 70 ton laser vomit IS heavy using the warhammer.

[Larsh]

I rarely come to these forums, but I figure that since my build is up for voting I might as well come here to see what people think. I am the one who built option #2.

I am also a little shocked that this build made it this far, and I knew it would garnish a bit of flack for it's loadout. But, I remember being new to this game back in 2013, and not knowing squat about anything stats wise. I've been playing with a new player this week, and I was shocked at how little the in-game tutorial teaches newer players. And, the one thing that newer players never understand is Ghost Heat. This build was built around negating ghost heat when possible, but also attempting to produce the highest alpha strike for the WHM.

I used these 2 websites to cross reference ghost heat for each weapon loadout in MWO.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Since I am assuming that we're all veteran players here, we need to understand the mindset of how a new player is going to play. I was able to drop in a T5 match for the first time this past week in a long time, and I noticed these items:

-Not listening to others in comms.
-Not using comms.
-Ignoring heat warnings, and shutting down (a lot)
-Going in solo without your teammates.

Builds #1 and #3 are both very good builds, and I would use either one. But, the one thing I see constantly here on these forums is the lack of variety. I would almost say that #1 and #3 are almost the same minus some hard point rearrangement, and slightly different engine. My worry is that newer players will be turned off by using another laser vomit build, with a high heat potential. I believe the WHM is the kind of mech that has much more to offer than just laser boating.

Maybe I just like odd builds, but I can do very well in #2 in a T2 / T1 match averaging around 500 - 700 dmg per match. And even more if in a coordinated Murder Ball.

Edited by Larsh, 31 January 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Surefoot]

build #1 is probably the most sensible option of the lot so far, not too slow, and properly meta. It's not optimal, but it works and will allow decent match scores.