348 replies to this topic

[James Argent]

If they had a true RP server, half of the mercs would get one randomly chosen IS mech handed down to them from their ancestors and they'd be grateful to not be dispossessed like the other half. Most of the C-Bills from contracts would go toward maintaining that mech in battle-ready condition. Only after a long series of successful campaigns would they get the chance to acquire a second mech, and unless they were able to ultra-rarely steal someone else's in a daring spec-ops raid, it would be some hodgepodge of bits of other mechs on a salvaged frame. Loyalist members of House/Clan units would be able to pilot different mechs, but only as their commanders dictate., and although their mech maintenance would taken care of for them instead of coming out of their much smaller paycheck, the vast majority of mechwarriors would own no mechs themselves. Remember, 'In the 30th Century life is cheap. Battlemechs aren't.'

Neither career path would be appropriate for this game. The amount of hand-waving required to make it playable in MWO would completely gut any RP out of it. RPing is best left to scripted or semi-scripted single player titles, unless it's totally voluntary like we have some people doing now.

[BWS2K]

James Argent, on 31 January 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

...unless it's totally voluntary like we have some people doing now.

This would absolutely be what I, at least, was suggesting. Everything you said would be up to the players to police, not PGI, and I think it would be rad... but I wouldn't ever expect Devs to moderate it.

[naterist]

you make it rp by adding in lore builds only and extra lore like content to that server, the other server is less lore stuff added, and more meta oriented. you could even make it so the lore servers are the sametech conflicts, and then orient the other playstyle of clan v IS as the ultimate level fighters, like the star league reborn/comstar are the best of the best, and they fight the clans, and the main house units who dont have the technology to make custom builds are focused on interhouse conflicts.

for the clan side its only the best are allowed to fight in the invasion, and freebirth second liners and solahma, and cruddy pilots fought on the homeworlds and occupation zones.

in order to earn the right to move up (get recruited to comstars comgaurd/a clan frontline galaxy, you have to distinguish yourself in the same tech conflicts and get noticed by comstar/your khan and bloodname council.


to help everyone chill with the bukkits thing, maybe each house/clan is divided up the way we first considered in the first roundtable. warden clans (wolf and gb) v crusader clans (jade falcon and smoke jag) or in 3060 its jade falcon and wolf are crusaders and nova cat and ghost bear are wardens.

mercs can jump to each side of the conflict for same tech and clan tech, but can not participate in "normal" faction warfare unless they unlock it. while mercs are clanners they are labeled dark caste (or was it bandit caste, whichever the lore says was the clan outlaw caste).

Edited by naterist, 31 January 2017 - 05:22 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Um, woah, i was kinda almost half joking when i suggested this...

To be clear:
RP - no mixing tech, attempts to adhere to lore...
"Normal" - can mix tech
NHUA - can mix tech, no heat, unlimited ammo - no cbills

NHUA is that place you go when you want to do stoopid crazy stuff with other random people that want to do stoopid crazy stuff... this way people don't feel so compelled to do it in regular matches... I remember having lots of fun with nhua drops back with my DM buddies (Death Merchants).

[Ranger Dave]

1. For those worried about all the meta builds/introduction of new era tech, make all FW games Stock mode.
It makes it easier for players to invest in a drop deck and really suits its role as the story part of the game..


2. Still really think there needs to be avenues for people to practice FW game modes outside of faction warfare to improve the experience for everyone.


3. A great incentive for loyalists - give them a MC discount on faction camo and a c-bill discount on a handful of 'totem mechs' etc for each faction. Start if off at practically zero and increase it with increase in ranking so long as they remain in the faction.
As a merc who follows the biggest payouts, I'd prefer that mercinary rewards wern't removed - those mech bays are one of the few incentives for new players to stay past the stomping stage.


4. A word of caution, Anything which splits up the queue or takes match finding any longer will break the oceanic timezone.

Eg. Last night, figured Tuesdays are a big night for oceanic units, current event would bump up numbers in scouting (great way to harvest Lance in Formation), lets get encourage some people who don't regularly play FW.
Between ghost drops and being stuck in searching window, averaged 40 minutes waiting per game, that is over in 5 minutes.
Even full groups got stuck in the searching screen for 5+ minutes rather than straight to a lobby.
At least with the old mode you could gauge how many people were about on either side (even if someone had to jump out of lobby to be able to check it), but now its just a period of limbo hoping that (A) the lobby appears and then ( the timer shifts to 1:00.
End result, everyone got bored and went to group queue.

The lack of population in this timezone leads to extreme waits, causing people to move away from FW which is... lowering the population.
There is a few of us who really enjoy the game modes and are willing to put up with the occasional stomp, but unless you can guarantee regular matches, quick play and group queue are just more attractive for most right now.

[Karl Marlow]

Ranger Dave, on 31 January 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

1. For those worried about all the meta builds/introduction of new era tech, make all FW games Stock mode.
It makes it easier for players to invest in a drop deck and really suits its role as the story part of the game..

.

As much as I like the idea of stock FW. It doesn't work when you throw in mechs from different eras. T2 is just strait up better than T1. Clans would just.decimate the IS. There is a reason Stock matches heavily regulate tech levels.

Edited by Karl Marlow, 01 February 2017 - 02:55 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Karl Marlow, on 01 February 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

As much as I like the idea of stock FW. It doesn't work when you throw in mechs from different eras. T2 is just strait up better than T1. Clans would just.decimate the IS. There is a reason Stock matches heavily regulate tech levels.

Seriously, the stock nova prime, if handled correctly out guns most stock IS heavies...

[Edward Hazen]

MovinTarget, on 01 February 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Seriously, the stock nova prime, if handled correctly out guns most stock IS heavies...

As it should, but many pilots would not be able to use it effectively due to the insane amount of ghost heat. I used the Nova prime almost exclusively in MW2 and MW2 Ghost Bear's Legacy. In MW2 the Nova could alpha without shutting down or blowing up.

[MovinTarget]

S0ulReapr, on 01 February 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

As it should, but many pilots would not be able to use it effectively due to the insane amount of ghost heat. I used the Nova prime almost exclusively in MW2 and MW2 Ghost Bear's Legacy. In MW2 the Nova could alpha without shutting down or blowing up.

I am not sure that's what was intended in lore though... supposed to fire 6+6 or 4+4+4 and it would still be impressive.

[MacCaileanMor]

The player generated meta games (leagues) that were created for past video game iterations of mechwarrior were fun and interesting and incredibly simple. Just a map, some rules, and a way to arrange fights between various teams. The meta game was a strategy game that included logistics and other considerations. The actual fights were just tactical events on the same old maps used for regular drops. The CW meta game does not offer any strategy, logistics, or role playing. It is just another way to drop onto some different maps. Tactics matter in CW but there is no grand strategy to ultimately win anything.

[Outlaw]

MacCaileanMor, on 01 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

The player generated meta games (leagues) that were created for past video game iterations of mechwarrior were fun and interesting and incredibly simple. Just a map, some rules, and a way to arrange fights between various teams. The meta game was a strategy game that included logistics and other considerations. The actual fights were just tactical events on the same old maps used for regular drops. The CW meta game does not offer any strategy, logistics, or role playing. It is just another way to drop onto some different maps. Tactics matter in CW but there is no grand strategy to ultimately win anything.

This is why I wished that instead of setting up CW the way we have it, PGI would have focused on content such as maps and mechs, and gave us a more robust lobby system then what is already in place and let the player base do the leg work for CW by starting up various leagues. Unfortunately what we have now is a joke of CW with some half-a**ed implimentation, and a lobby system that was also a half-a**ed implimentation.

[Ranger Dave]

Karl Marlow, on 01 February 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

As much as I like the idea of stock FW. It doesn't work when you throw in mechs from different eras. T2 is just strait up better than T1. Clans would just.decimate the IS. There is a reason Stock matches heavily regulate tech levels.

Yeah had thought about splitting tech eras, but that would split queues further. Perhaps events that are not only between specific factions but limited to mechs/tech of that era?

[Edward Hazen]

MovinTarget, on 01 February 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

I am not sure that's what was intended in lore though... supposed to fire 6+6 or 4+4+4 and it would still be impressive.

In the cartoon the Strikers were able to run around long enough to get the Falcon Mechs to overheat, so Clan weapons have always been hot, but the ghost heat in MWO is just ridiculous.

[James Argent]

Eh, the Strikers tried to get the Falcons to overheat, but were taken by surprise when they didn't.
I'm ashamed I know this.

[Jables McBarty]

Tarogato, on 27 January 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

Solo players don't need any help. They need to quit dropping in and muddling up a game mode that was originally intended to be unit vs. unit warfare. The moment PGI decided that solo players should be allowed to participate equally... they effed up. Solo's need to be driven toward units somehow.

Nope. Force me to join an enduring group of strangers to play MWO and I'm out. And I know for a fact that I am not alone in this. Temporary group - fine! Do it all the time, one match at a time.

And the "original intent" argument just doesn't hold water anymore. However it was originally marketed, the execution clearly "muddled up the game mode," not the solo pugs who just happened to see something and try something.

Deathlike, on 27 January 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

They aren't inherently the problem though. It's the introduction to the deep end that never really develop because they aren't up to the task (possibly/probably having developed no good habits in the solo queue of QP). It's mostly an NPE problem coupled with a poor LFG system that doesn't really interact with people ontop of not having groups/units teaching them the proper way to play FP.

Mind you, this isn't exactly about bad players that don't want to listen (they exist, and that's a different problem to solve), but it's really a systematic problem that PGI has not been ever able to address in any semblance.

Exactly. It's 100% about NPE... and part of that is adding an interface encouraging solo nubs to learn from the people they are playing with (as opposed to the current "gate" mechanism which is just a blanket warning).

And part of that is groups and veteran solos taking initiative to coach the pugs.

Tiantara, on 28 January 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

- One of the possible change in FP map rotation is placing that


1a-2a-3a-4a - invasion map phases.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - phases as they are in game now:
1 - Game Mode: Skirmish
2 - Domination
3 - Conquest
4 - Assault

That can make FP a bit better...

I liked the idea proposed in the RT, where the modes sort of "bleed over" into one another, giving you a semi-random selection of 1 of 3 modes. I got stuck on Domination (my least favorite) five times in a row yesterday before switching to scouting.

Anyway, mixed with such a semi-randomization, I could see your proposal working. Wouldn't oppose it.

[Jables McBarty]

BearFlag, on 27 January 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

@Twitch

Their three points are small mechanics in the scheme of things. Not unimportant, but certainly not "most" important.

Most important remains population which ended in single bucket, no factions, no planets (and soon it sounds, no phases). This comes back to match balance. This in turn makes broken respawn miserable at times.

This is what continues to kill FW.

Bad repetitive gameplay perhaps?

Getting more modes into FP got me into the game. Don't really care about the overworld tbh.

Variety and good gameplay as primary goal (which Conquest, Skirmish, and Assault w/ Dropdecks has started to do for me), then faction lore, logistics, and rewards as secondary goal.

[Jables McBarty]

Mech The Dane, on 26 January 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

...
The other thing was 8 hour phases, I think that needs some serious work too. 8 hours is too long for events, it's too long for most units to commit to on a regular basis. I think 4 is better, and personally, I even think a case can be made to limiting how much CW is even accessible - I think maybe deceasing CW from 24/7 to 12/7 might be a good idea. With new incentives and a few other goodies tossed, we see if we can create a situation where people play QP normally.. and then funnel into the CP game-mode during those 4 hours it's up (my suggestion here would be 4 hours in NA prime time, 4 hours in EU prime time, 4 hours in Oceanic prime time.) I just see it as being more manageable for smaller units, and a potential boon to the QP and CW population as the gametypes aren't always fighting each other for both. But this is more of a fringe belief of mine and there might be serious dissent towards it. Either way, I think 8 hours is too long for a phase
...

I recall hearing this brought up during the actual RT, don't recall if this idea was proposed:

7 hour phases rather than 8, or 5 rather than 3, 4, or 6. Why? Because 5 and 7 aren't multiples of 24, which means that you are seldom playing during the same phase day-to-day.

PUG Jables from Wisconsin USA usually plays from 8-10pm EST, and is always at the middle of the Third Phase. Shorten or lengthen to 5/7/9 hours and now he's sort of chasing the phases around the planet. (Or perhaps the phases are chasing timezones around the planet?)

IDK, it doesn't really matter to me, just an idea.

RE: Doing 12/7, I'd vote strongly against that. One of my biggest complaints about Pre-4.1 is the cease-fire. It seemed that any time I decided to give FP a shot I had only one game and then it was CF time. Went back to QP and forgot to check back.

[Jables McBarty]

MovinTarget, on 26 January 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

Been thinking alot about BV (battle Value) that someone else was pushing, and while I don't know how we'd properly apply BV to MWO as it will certainly *not* be directly portable from BT... *if* it could be derived properly, it could possible alleviate some of the knuckle-headedness we see...

You could have BV min and max per drop deck (possibly in conjunction with weight), but you could also have BV min/max per mech with the idea that people couldn't bring absolute garbage builds and maybe even prevent ridiculously high BV mechs from proliferating. The latter kind of scares me as it could get heavy-handed treatment and too many too-good builds get blocked from FP...


But all this wouldn't necessarily gate unprepared players from doing FP.

Would *LOVE* to see a series of FP-oriented Academy training/trial scenarios added though:
"How to open a door (hint, DO NOT SHOOT THE DOOR)"
"How to kill and O-Gen"
"How to kill Omega"
Conversely, but perhaps not as easy to teach:
"How to defend an O-gen"

Some people will never get it, but I really hope that little exercises like this would help the guys that don't understand the language we are trying to communicate to them in or don't have comms on, or simply never stop to listen to those of us trying to help...

Edited b/c apparently "g estapo" is a bad word?

Definitely add a "how to build a DropDeck" tutorial. Make it dependent on completing "Intro to MechLab" and "Advanced MechLab" tutorials.

Might obviate the need for BV.

[Edward Hazen]

James Argent, on 01 February 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

Eh, the Strikers tried to get the Falcons to overheat, but were taken by surprise when they didn't.
I'm ashamed I know this.

You can watch it on YouTube in all its low-res glory.

[Wibbledtodeath]

I am really enjoying the new QP in faction play games. Also, its easily THE best way to grind for CBills (and I am just a lone PUG) Obviously maps need to be varied a bit more during stale mate or stomp (but that has been discussed already- just please Russ don't remove the ability to switch dropdeck after map is known- its a major differentiator between FP and QP and variety is good. Also, I spent up on dropdecks to have this option).


Other issues remaining:

1) Ghost drops/non drop. Very off putting to wait in line for 10+ mins with11 other eager players and get no game. Really, most of us (casual players at leas) line up to actually play the game- not just get technical win with no action.
EASY Fix: Please PGI, at the very least, code a 6vs 6 (lance sizes of 2) option instead of non drop//ghost drop. (ideally, free for all & 3 lance vs lance vs lance play as well- but that requires a little more coding re setting up friendly/enemy status for more that 2 teams. 6v 6 should be knocked over in a day).

2) Player retention and dwindling buckets- If you bucket isn't as big, maybe you should not be aiming to completely fill up the pool every time:
Single player QP is broken- frequently tier 2 players and tier 5 players dropping together. Result in the newb being flamed by frustrated others= game will dwindle and die without new blood and wit frustrated oldies. Maybe need to forget the maximum server efficiency of always aiming for 12v12 matches and actually give us varied games with varied numbers of players. For player training and retention, it would be MUCH better to have a 7v7 game of players with some experience and another 5v5 of players with little rather than a mixed 12v12. (off topic I know, but new player retention will impact FP wait times eventually also.)

3) Ghost heat= fail. Nuff said.