64 replies to this topic

[BattleBunny]

It takes skill to hit with ppcs consistently as well as positoning awareness. Those players that can hit with ppcs while poptarting can have consistent 1k+ games in the summoners. (personal record is 1581 here, but I have seen much more excessive scores up to 1800) I suspect this small group of people are what is making the data for PGI look the way it is.

They nerfed a mech that takes skill in order to operate it effectively.

Silly PGI.

edit, Areseye even had a 2k game with it on alpine.
https://www.twitch.t...sguy/v/53012027

Edited by BattleBunny, 25 January 2017 - 07:48 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

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[Roadbuster]

Monkey Lover, on 25 January 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2f1bab60c799d18

54 alpha at 440m ish
running over 90kph
quirks and more quirks with target computer
9 extra dhs
5 jumper jets

clan "under dog" rofl

Well, I don't have access to any of the loyalty or hero side torsos, so no energy hardpoints in torso for me.
So, if it's no underdog, why are so many complainging about SMN being bad?

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 25 January 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2f1bab60c799d18

54 alpha at 440m ish
running over 90kph
quirks and more quirks with target computer
9 extra dhs
5 jumper jets

clan "under dog" rofl

19 DHS is awfully low. The Timber runs this build with 24.

Either way, Clan laser vomit is meh, in anything but CW, but even then 19 DHS won't be nearly enough to keep up any sort of sustained damage. If you aren't PPC poptarting or SRM brawling, bring a different mech.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 25 January 2017 - 09:31 AM.

[Zergling]

Snazzy Dragon, on 24 January 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

The issue is that it hurt any build that DOESN'T take the cER PPCs.

SRM build wasn't hurt.

But yeah, nerfing the ER PPC quirks and the energy heat gen quirk? That's overkill.

[xe N on]

Steve Pryde, on 25 January 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

You know what tonnage is?

You know what balance is?

Or do you prefer anyone run around in 100 ton mechs because more ton = more viable?

[Monkey Lover]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 January 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

19 DHS is awfully low. The Timber runs this build with 24.

Either way, Clan laser vomit is meh, in anything but CW, but even then 19 DHS won't be nearly enough to keep up any sort of sustained damage. If you aren't PPC poptarting or SRM brawling, bring a different mech.

Just played 3 games with the 2lpl,4med i got around 400-550 each time. Over all its not "bad" its just not top tier.

https://s24.postimg....f9nicl/sum3.jpg
https://s30.postimg....zaqufl/sum4.jpg

[LowSubmarino]

You can fit 16 DHS into the hunchi if you go for biggest engine with tcVI or tcV for more armor..

This is when you are heat efficient enough to be able to shoot those 2 ppcs quite often.

The summoner can fit 19 DHS, if you take a tcV and take some armor from one or both arms and the head.

Thats pretty significant. Even after the nerfs its still very good.

Great hardpoints, even more heat efficient than the hunchback, almost as fast, more armor, great mobility quirks.

The hunchback has slightly better hardpoints, is a smaller target and is a little faster. Faster is always good.

But the summoner is still really good.

If it gets down to sniping the summoner will have a huge advantage over most other heavies that were named here. Night Gyr, even timberwolf or Hellbringer. Its pretty perfect for sniping, ridgesniping, jumpsniping. The nerfs havent changed that. It had ridiculous heat efficiency with those quirks. It was natural to bring it down simply to awesome level which is more than enough.

But yeah....its only one build that will be really good. 2 ppcs.

Ppcs are fun though. So its not as bad as it could be

[Verkhne]

if I promise not to get the Hero or Loyalty omnipods can I have the old quirkset back?

[Bradigus]

Monkey Lover, on 25 January 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Just played 3 games with the 2lpl,4med i got around 400-550 each time. Over all its not "bad" its just not top tier.

This is where the -10% energy heat generation quirk before the patch helped it considerably.

While it allowed the summoner to alpha strike twice in a row then switch to chain firing weapons to slowly cooldown while keeping up the pressure, it most importantly enabled the summoner to sustain fire from those lasers longer than 18-19 DHS simply allows.

Now it's one alpha, wait 10 seconds, another alpha, then wait for 15 seconds before you can safely fire your large pulses again.

[NeoCodex]

Well, if HBK can do the same thing equally well it seems it will be the next one the nerf dartboard.

[B0oN]

Summoner is still good, I can´t quite get what so many people are moaning about ...

Oh wait ... I dont drive the (L), I drive the Prime(I) ... yeah it might have lost some ERPPC speed, but meh, I dun care since I can still hit people with it , beginning at 1800m range, ever closing in

And yea ... HBK is a very, very good complementary mech to a Summoner, especially if you love ERPPC´s as crazily as I do .

The one thing that puts the Summoner apart from the HBK poptart is, that altough the SMN is 20 tons heavier, it still moves like a murderous ballet dancer ... especially when you go in for some CQB too from time to time .

Chillax a bit more, adapt a bit quicker, the change isn´t as harsh as I expected it from PGI, which in itself should be telling you something on its own

[SilentWolff]

oneda, on 25 January 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

You can fit 16 DHS into the hunchi if you go for biggest engine with tcVI or tcV for more armor..

This is when you are heat efficient enough to be able to shoot those 2 ppcs quite often.

The summoner can fit 19 DHS, if you take a tcV and take some armor from one or both arms and the head.

My Hunchback has 18 DHS, TC5, XL275 with 3 JJ. Thats almost identical to the Summoner. When you consider that you get all that for 20 tons less, the Summoner becomes a much less attractive option with the nerfs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 25 January 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Just played 3 games with the 2lpl,4med i got around 400-550 each time. Over all its not "bad" its just not top tier.

https://s24.postimg....f9nicl/sum3.jpg
https://s30.postimg....zaqufl/sum4.jpg

That's less than I have been getting in Bushwackers though.

[Monkey Lover]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 January 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

That's less than I have been getting in Bushwackers though.

I agree some mechs are better but with a laser setup its more than i get in my cataphract,dragon,jager,maddog and so on. But yes its not as good as even my grasshopper.

Its "average" with the L pods in my view. We will have to see what happen with the skill tree it might be worse here soon.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 25 January 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[a gaijin]

People only started b*tching, whining, and moaning to PGI for Summoner nerfs after loyalty variants released.
That the SMN did get nerfed is like punishing people who were loyal to MWO.

Absolutely preposterous.

[Ebins]

Star Commander Horse, on 25 January 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

People only started b*tching, whining, and moaning to PGI for Summoner nerfs after loyalty variants released.
That the SMN did get nerfed is like punishing people who were loyal to MWO.

Absolutely preposterous.

tl;dr Taking what they did with the Summoner and just expounding my whole viewpoint on what PGI is doing to this game in comparison to actual Battletech and how disappointed I am in this game.

---

It's like that with a lot of clan stuff now. I am pretty poor when it comes to RL cash, being physically disabled, but I went and spent extra money to get a Jade Falcon camo for Storm Crows, but guess what? Can't use them in scouting matches anymore. They're constantly nerfing Clans left and right with every patch. I guess PGI long ago abandoned the reasoning behind why Clan tech and IS tech is different. I actually find it funny that they introduced the Bushwacker this patch, but it was a mech that required the capture of the Clan Mad Dog to figure out engine/sensor placement (according to lore). If they're going that way, they should introduce more "advanced" IS tech along this "timeline" instead of just nerfing stuff. I mean, let's be honest here - IS players are complaining because Clan tech has better advantages. So PGI is nerfing Clan as hard core as they can to make both sides "equal." Well guess what, they're not! If PGI wanted to do that, they should have stayed away from the Mechwarrior franchise completely and just made a generic robot combat simulator. But they used the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise as a marketing tool to bring those of us who grew up loving the game and the lore into their pocketbook.

I know a lot of people are going to disagree with what I've said, but I know a lot will also agree. Honestly, I have no desire to give PGI any more cash at this moment. That's not because I'm trying to "get even" or anything, but like I said, money is very hard for me to come across, and I see no reason to purchase something only to see it get nerfed or radically changed, or in the case of the Crow, not even really being able to use it. Right now, I'm running on 47 days of premium and I have another 30 in the bank from the most recent purchases I made. Once that stuff is used up, that's it for me... unless PGI really gets it's game together.

Face it, IS and Clan are not equal, should not be modified to be made equal, and those who whine about balance are those who play the game because it's another "shooter" and have no idea nor any desire to learn of the actual lore behind this stuff. I mean geesh, even in Faction Warfare, it's no longer individual factions against each other. It's just one big melting pot - IS vs Clan. Really, what's the point of even having individual factions at this point in time?

I must admit that I am extremely disillusioned with this game right now and unless things change, I don't see how I'm ever going to get that excitement back. I would definitely love to see PGI change things up to where people no longer focus on the "biggest alpha," but instead play how the game is... longer fights, taking out individual components, wearing this big mech down. As it is now, you peek at the wrong moment, and you get a bunch of alphas immediately in the face and it's basically game over for you even if you survive that particular "encounter."

The nerf to the Summoner is just another bad decision by PGI along these lines.

I would love to see devs actually address this stuff on the message boards, but we never hear anything from them other than monthly "statements" that they never reply to. They just make things happen and we are expected to live with it. "Oh, they'll get used to it after time" seems to be their attitude.

I really wonder what difference does it make now which faction you chose to ally yourself with... I mean, really? What difference at all does it actually make? What's the point, PGI? Do you even care to respond?

[Jun Watarase]

BattleBunny, on 25 January 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

It takes skill to hit with ppcs consistently as well as positoning awareness. Those players that can hit with ppcs while poptarting can have consistent 1k+ games in the summoners. (personal record is 1581 here, but I have seen much more excessive scores up to 1800) I suspect this small group of people are what is making the data for PGI look the way it is.

They nerfed a mech that takes skill in order to operate it effectively.

Silly PGI.

edit, Areseye even had a 2k game with it on alpine.
https://www.twitch.t...sguy/v/53012027

Yes, as i said, niche build in niche situations by top players. Nowhere near as powerful in general compared to the popular builds you see in FW or QP. Theres a reason why most players in the upper tier or FW max out on IS LPL/LL for example. And i doubt even top players would be able to get consistent results with say, 4x lasers/2x UAC summoners or a ER PPC/LBX summoner. Or a LRM summoner.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jun Watarase, on 28 January 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Theres a reason why most players in the upper tier or FW max out on IS LPL/LL for example.

Yeah, because the IS can't really compete at anything else except for quirked dakka.

That said, using FW for balance talks is bad.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 January 2017 - 12:53 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

People have a tedency to use the most powerful things they can get their hands on in FW, even more so than quick play. If you start seeing teams comprised of largely of a certain mech/build on a regular basis, chances are that its too powerful compared to the other options available. Whether thats because its OP or the other options are underpowered is another thing entirely.

I remember when dropping into FW meant that almost every IS team would have at least 75% tbolts all with the same few builds....