29 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Duke Nedo, on 25 January 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

Hell no. Just because the only way to squeeze some things into the ST makes it impossible to also fit an XL engines does absolutely nothing to make the STD engine worth that extreme tonnage handicap it imposes.

What you do is that you just build the corresponding build on a clan XL mech instead and profit, or on an IS mech with arm ballistics.

Edit: Let me also add that the fact that a Mauler or Atlas can make a particular build does absolutely nothing for a Stalker or Awesome that is stuck with a STD engine because the engine cap/hitboxes.

While not at the top of the Meta.... running an STD doesn't really seem to set the Stalker back much. With that many hardpoints, and certain IS Weapons... I kind of fear what would happen if Stalkers had Clan style XL capability.

[Duke Nedo]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 January 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

While not at the top of the Meta.... running an STD doesn't really seem to set the Stalker back much. With that many hardpoints, and certain IS Weapons... I kind of fear what would happen if Stalkers had Clan style XL capability.

For stalkers it's the engine cap that gives then little to win by using an XL anyways... but even so, not too much would happen, they would become BLR-2Cs... ...and they would suffer from TBR syndrome, ST-stripped.

[Bishop Steiner]

Duke Nedo, on 25 January 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

For stalkers it's the engine cap that gives then little to win by using an XL anyways... but even so, not too much would happen, they would become BLR-2Cs... ...and they would suffer from TBR syndrome, ST-stripped.

ugh..... don't want to see more BLR-2Cs.... or Grasshoppers or Warhammers. Lightsaber Meta is getting as old as most of the previous Metas.

Mind you, I get there will always BE a top build/chassis/weapon/tactic.... but I do prefer the brief instances where the gap between it and the next level are not so huge.

[MechaBattler]

It being the lowest slot engine in the game is it's only true advantage. Being able to walk around as a stick hasn't been an advantage since the Clans came and TTK reduced. The one thing it excels at isn't enough to justify it.

My personal suggestion for buffing the standard is a little weird. Buff engine HP by a good margin. Then add a mechanic when both side torsos are destroyed the remaining weapons get 30% cooldown buff. Zombie mech make a comeback!

Or just give extra structure to the CT and ST. : /

[Revis Volek]

Hit the Deck, on 25 January 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

I guess it is mainly because STD are cheaper than XL. Anything in TT could happen because it has Battle Value to balance everything.


The Atlas is stuck to the brawler role not because it wants to.

By using XL275 the HBK-4SP can swap its 4x ML to 4x MPL and add one more DHS but I guess it's not really worth it.


PGI has said that enabling individual crit destruction decreased TTK according to their internal testing. How true that is I don't know.

I'm gonna say that last one is false, PGI has told me time and time again that isnt how their code works and they cannot change it.

Maybe they got a new employee? I bet not, There code is spaghetti and XML edits are too hard it seems but its also not how things are coded in the game. I really doubt they re coded a large portion of the game just for internal testing.


and McGral already hit the nail on the head...

Edited by Revis Volek, 25 January 2017 - 03:30 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

No reason to take std anymore in the face of clan firepower 2.0 with the clan battlemechs running around except on very niche mechs

You won't last more than 10 secs under fire from the sheer amount of firepower they bring so no reason to take a std when you can just take an xl and do nearly twice as much damage

[Tarl Cabot]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 January 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

ugh..... don't want to see more BLR-2Cs.... or Grasshoppers or Warhammers. Lightsaber Meta is getting as old as most of the previous Metas.

Mind you, I get there will always BE a top build/chassis/weapon/tactic.... but I do prefer the brief instances where the gap between it and the next level are not so huge.

Isn't that one of the issue with a fragile isXL engine? Even with structural/armor quirks, the gamble to take heavier weapons such as ballistics on an isXL platform consistently is not worth it for the general population. Even if we get the UAC10, complement energy weapons are very short range, lower damaged weapons or heavier, longer range energy weapons, or missile systems.

Essentially, IS is hostage to energy weapons. Even without quirks Lightsaber Meta would still be the go to mechs, and most of the energy load outs can be can be done either with STD or isXL, the real difference is only how quickly they can get to where they are going whether or not they die with one side torso gone or til both side torsos are gone.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 25 January 2017 - 08:44 PM.

[FupDup]

Duke Nedo, on 25 January 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

For stalkers it's the engine cap that gives then little to win by using an XL anyways... but even so, not too much would happen, they would become BLR-2Cs... ...and they would suffer from TBR syndrome, ST-stripped.

Stalkers also run out of critslots much faster than tonnage anyways, excluding the Misery because of ballistics.

[QuantumButler]

Steinar Bergstol, on 25 January 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolt should definitely be a tanky mech. Its claim to fame as a 65 tonner was always that it was tougher than most top end mechs of the heavy range (like the 10 ton heavier Marauder) and even outarmored several assault mechs. Thunderbolts are tough sons-of-guns in TT and lore!

TBH the Thunderbolt in MWO is tougher than other 65 tonners like the Catapult and Ebin Jag already, now granted I think it'd be good if it got some love in the form of moving it's structure buffs to armor buffs but it is currently relatively tough for a 65 ton gundam.

[Tarl Cabot]

QuantumButler, on 26 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

TBH the Thunderbolt in MWO is tougher than other 65 tonners like the Catapult and Ebin Jag already, now granted I think it'd be good if it got some love in the form of moving it's structure buffs to armor buffs but it is currently relatively tough for a 65 ton gundam.

Part of the reason it is tough is its form. It is not wide, thin and tall but short and thick. Among other parts, If its RCT did not the bulk it does, the mech would be bigger. It is basically a perfect storm with decent (mid ST) to perfect energy (high ST) hardpoints with a high cockpit. But still its primaries energy weapons. Two t-bolts do have ballistics in the arm but to use any serious ballistic setup (except MG) while keeping part of the mid/long range energy firepower power requires a fragile isXL, so a IS player could not use the sword & shield tactic with it. And that sweet spot (energy only) includes the ability for a player to decide to use STD w/decent speed or fragile isXL for more speed/agility. Even without quirks it would still be run as an energy build due to the nature of the isXL.