25 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

With proper positioning, targets are ideally downrange.

Front armor saves you 19 of 20 times while rear armor only saves you 1 out of 20 times.

The people beating you badly are likely using paper thin rear armor. If you are using 20 rear armor and your opponent is using 4 rear armor on a 70 ton mech that means they have 20% more armor protection. (4 rear armor or less)

Once in a blue moon you will get backstabbed, but just shrug it off as bad luck or part of learning and resist the temptation to bump up your rear armor.


If you do an experiment where you increase your torso armor by 1 pt in the direction you die from, it would float between 0 and 1 pretty much forever. *unless you are the absolute weakest player in the game pretty much.

Specific to CW, making these changes will increase you survivability across 4 mechs.

Finally, all your weapons are forward firing(which should be giving you a raging clue right now). There are no rear mounted weapons in MWO.

[Starbomber109]

I found that my evolution as a player was inversely proportional to my rear armor. When I started I pretty much didn't change from the stock rear armor values. Then, as I got a little better, I ran less and less rear armor. I went from 18-14, to 12-10, then to 8, all the way down to 4, which is what I usually roll with now. I think I even made a thread about it a few months ago. I have seen other people run as little as 2 back armor.

But I'll add a note: if you aren't comfortable with 1 back armor, don't run it. You should definitely run less than 10, but your back armor pretty much exists to defend you from team damage. If someone shoots you in the back they EARNED that kill.

[naterist]

My rule of themb, brawlers get 6 back armour, mid-long range 3-4, and for assaults always~ 10-12, with ct having one more point for all types.

My reasoning is that brawlers get backstabbed more often, and if your in a melee you have enemies on all sides, front and back. Mid-long range is only really threatened in the rear armour by a light hunter squad, and if your alone enough to get caught by them, your already dead. Assaults get the most because theyre slower and everyone knows to rear core out an assault when possible, so you get shot there MUCH more often, and assaults are also big enough to be able to spare it (on top of that, many assaults are also brawlers, so the same concepts for brawlers apply here). As for 1 more point for ct rear armour, thats 1)preference, and 2) people trying to core you out normally focus ct rear torso, so that naturally needs a bit more armour, though 1 point isnt really that much.

[Marius Evander]

a little more rear armor in QP/scouting than FP/CW (8 vs 4)

[Jman5]

I think this is even more important in CW. Reinforcements are coming in from your back means enemy players will be less likely or even able to sneak around your back. Particularly Invasion with its rigid Attack/Defense map layout.

[Pat Kell]

If you have more than 4 armor in the rear of any mech, for any reason, you are only making it easier for your enemy to kill you. I almost never get killed from the back. I get shot there from time to time but rarely killed and I brawl a lot. Just my opinion though.

[xe N on]

True for peek a boo game play.

In brawling some rear armor can save your from being killed in seconds. My brawling builds mostly have 8 to 18 rear armor (e.g. Griffin 3M: 8; Atlas DDS 18).

[naterist]

xe N on, on 25 January 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

True for peek a boo game play.

In brawling some rear armor can save your from being killed in seconds. My brawling builds mostly have 8 to 18 rear armor (e.g. Griffin 3M: 8; Atlas DDS 18).

this is especially true for the marauder 2c, i dont even have to aim, just point at its back and watch it die.

[LordNothing]

Pat Kell, on 25 January 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

If you have more than 4 armor in the rear of any mech, for any reason, you are only making it easier for your enemy to kill you. I almost never get killed from the back. I get shot there from time to time but rarely killed and I brawl a lot. Just my opinion though.

i dont really think 4 points is good advice for noobs. half of them dont even know that they are getting shot at let alone where at. while i agree upwards of 20 points is too much and single digit numbers in the back are preferable. one does not simply gain that elite situational awareness ability overnight. even my immediate reactions to those sneaky threats usually leave me with my nether regions hanging out for the rest of my match. i personally like to run 8 because of this, or as low as 4 on some lights and sometimes as high as 10 for very slow unmastered assaults, and usually drop them to 9 when i got the agility upgrades.

i say its better to tell em to start at 12-15 and notch it down gradually until they are in the neibothood of 4-9 points as their awareness improves. this will give them a couple more opportunities to screw up without dieing. dropping below 4 is strictly for top level competitive types who really can mitigate risk with skill and teamwork. if i was going that way i would certainly tighten up my numbers.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 January 2017 - 10:02 PM.

[Dutchoper72]

I enjoy having at least 10 - 15. Anything less and I feel naked.

[Karl Marlow]

I go 6 ST to 8 CT on heavier mechs. Significantly less in my lights.

[MischiefSC]

An extra 5 pts on you front instead of your back will save you from dying to the 2nd alpha from most laservomit mechs. Barely, but barely is all you need.

9 pts instead of 4 pts in the back won't mean **** if you let someone back there to hit you with 30-50pts.

Put it up front. 4-5 pts is enough to handle the occasional grazing while you twist around.

If you're getting shot in the back on purpose then more than 5 pts won't matter. If you're getting shot in the front an extra 5 pts is the difference between taking hits like a Treb or taking hits like a Griffin. Moving 6-10 more points of armor up front is like moving up 10 tons in mech weight class for the armor you're carrying.

A 5-10pt armor quirk across all torso locations makes a mech tanky AF. You can give yourself one by moving that armor from 10-15 in back to 4.

If you've got situational awareness issues that keep you from telling if you've turned your back to the enemy an extra 5-10 pts of armor isn't going to help you.

Move it up front. Guys will still like you if you're packing it all up top; the junk in your trunk is still sexy if it's just 4 pts.

Edited by MischiefSC, 26 January 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[Pat Kell]

Having more than 4 armor in your back is not going to save you from the determined enemy that is behind you, lining up a shot and dropping 2 alphas into your back (sometimes it only takes one). the difference between 4 armor and 10 armor is 6 pts (and 10 is an obscene amount of back armor imo). Most alphas run in the 30-50 pt range. A double alpha to your back is going to either kill you or pop a side torso whether you have 4 or 10 armor...it is pointless to get that high unless you have frenemies who are constantly clipping you with friendly fire. Just don't do it guys, seriously. Go down to 4 or less and you will enjoy the tankiness that you get from that move. You will likely not die anymore often to back shots than you do right now plus you have the added benefit of starting to pay attention to your surroundings and gaining that situational awareness that seems to be so important.

[Starbomber109]

My GHR-5H tends to take a lot of back damage when I over-twist...But I think this is a worthwhile price to pay, somewhat like over-angleing your armor in WoT it makes using your armor more skill based. Some mechs you don't even have to twist that far. (Also, when all the armor on the front is gone I do tend to try and spread some damage to my back...Probably not a good idea, but if they are already nailing structure I might as well try and get my 4-6 health that I put back there.)

[Tarogato]

If you're playing properly, you can get away with zero rear armour. I play with and recommend 1-4 points, maximum, for all mechs in all weightclasses.

The idea is that you want to use every single point of armour on your mech before going down. If when you die, you consistently have armour remaining on certain components, it's safe to start reducing the armour from those components, particularly rear torsos, legs, and sometimes arms. By putting too much armour on your rear, you're basically admitting to yourself that you will ensure that an enemy gets a backshot on you, otherwise this rear armour and the tonnage that you invested into it will go to waste. Instead, put that armour on the front where it will always get used. Never let the enemy shoot your back - your guns should be facing the enemy at all times anyways, never let an enemy shoot you without shooting him in return, that's how you win at playing this game. Your internal structure is there to save you from backshots, and that's all you really need. Rear armour is mostly there to save you from friendly fire.


Exceptions:

- Head armour. Usually keep this at maximum to protect yourself against freak dual gauss headshots (they happen.) But brawlers can safely strip head armour, because they won't be playing the trading game where most headshots occur.

- Gauss torsos. No matter how good your teammates are, there are going to be cases of friendly fire. If you insist on running gauss torsos in an IS mech, I'd recommend running as much as 4-6 rear armour on those torsos, it will save you from getting crit'd by laser scratches and the occasional AC5 from teammates.

- Fast brawlers. If you're going to get into the thick of things, expect to get shot in the back at least a little, and 4-6 points of rear armour will do ya.

---

Oh, and for the love of god quit calling out on comms, "his back is open!" Of course his bloody back is open, it probably only had 1-2 points in the first place!

/triggered

Edited by Tarogato, 26 January 2017 - 04:51 AM.

[theUgly]

4 points of rear armour for all my mechs that are not brawlers.
10 for the brawlers.

Usually when i am leading a push i alpha the first guy
in front of me and keepz it moving. The more time i survive
the more time our team has the time to focus fire .

For me, i had to up my back armour a bit from 5 on the brawlers
and do like it the way it is now.

[Zito]

This thread is culturally insensitive. There are entire units who "baby got back" it for effective objective rushing.

#ClownStick

[Natural Predator]

Zito, on 26 January 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

This thread is culturally insensitive. There are entire units who "baby got back" it for effective objective rushing.

#ClownStick

I object to your racist rant against gen rushers. #genrushlivesmatter

[Jack Booted Thug]

But I like to walk in the gate backwards as a show of disrespect.

[Ziogualty]

My Scouting Mech does not approve.