181 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Wrong! The in game stats are setup in such a way that they artificially deflate CLAN Wins and inflate Clan losses while inflating IS Wins and Deflating IS losses because it credits factions of the players on a team and not a straight up CLAN vs IS team stat. This is very simple to understand because the typical team make up of IS has many more players across different factions than the typical CLAN team. You can not simply add up all the wins and losses for the given factions and divide by 4 and 6. Need I write up a detailed explanation of how the in-game faction stats does this because your incapable of understanding the basic math behind the sugar coated stats shown for faction play to make it seem like IS does better than it actual is. CLAN does stomp IS in 80 plus percent of the faction matches due to the imbalances in tech and hit mechanics.

Uh...why can't you?

Wins and losses /12 should get you the same thing (12 winners and 12 losers per match)
Is my sleep deprivation clouding my statistics knowledge?

[Mcgral18]

Mcgral18, on 31 January 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Uh...why can't you?

Wins and losses /12 should get you the same thing (12 winners and 12 losers per match)
Is my sleep deprivation clouding my statistics knowledge?

Right, so Players with less than 10 matches would remove some matches (wondering why they weren't matching up)

And how do faction swapping players affect the leaderboard?
Do their wins stick with the given faction, or move along with the player's current faction?


And I'm not sure if Scouting affects the leaderboards either, which would upset the divide by 12 rule, but whole against whole should still yield an accurate result, if not for the player swapping

Edited by Mcgral18, 31 January 2017 - 05:25 PM.

[MadIrish]

Mcgral18, on 31 January 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Uh...why can't you?
Wins and losses /12 should get you the same thing (12 winners and 12 losers per match)
Is my sleep deprivation clouding my statistics knowledge?

OMG people pay attention in math class! Making me demonstrate for you how the stat board is sugar coating the truth.

Match 1 IS Team Players from 5 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 2 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 3 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 4 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 5 IS team Players from 2 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 6 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 7 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 8 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 9 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 1 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 10 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins

Straight up stats -
Clan Won 7 of the 10 matches (Clan won 70% of the matches and lost 30%)
IS Won 4 of the 10 Matches. (IS won 30% of the matches and lost 70%)

Now for the fuzzy math that sugar coats the issue and make it appears as though balance is close using the way the stat board works in faction play. Since it credits each faction with a win or loss based on the team faction make up not the number of players on the team from that faction.

Clan Factions won 16 times
Clan Factions lost 8 times
Already you can see that it has deflated the K/D ratio to make it look like the clan only won 50% matches when they actually won 70% of the matches

IS Factions won 13 times
IS Factions lost 25 times
Here too we can see that the stat method employed inflates the K/D ratio for the IS to over 50% when they actually only won 30% of the matches.

As you can see the stat method used in faction play only makes it appear as though the game is nearly balanced when in fact it is telling you that the clan is winning way over 80% of the matches based on the current stats for the season if you assume the typical IS team has on average 4 to 5 factions on it and the Clan team typically has 1 or 2 with an occasional 3.

Some folks keep saying add them all up and divide by 4 and 6 respectively, that makes even less sense due to the way the stat system is setup and would result in meaningless numbers as well.

Edited by MadIrish, 31 January 2017 - 05:51 PM.

[Mcgral18]

MadIrish, on 31 January 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

OMG people pay attention in math class! Making me demonstrate for you how the stat board is sugar coating the truth.

Match 1 IS Team Players from 5 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 2 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 3 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. IS Wins
Match 4 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 5 IS team Players from 2 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 6 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 7 IS team Players from 3 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 3 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 8 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 9 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 1 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins
Match 10 IS team Players from 4 of the 6 factions and a Clan Team with players from 2 of the 4 factions. Clan Wins

Straight up stats -
Clan Won 7 of the 10 matches (Clan won 70% of the matches and lost 30%)
IS Won 4 of the 10 Matches. (IS won 30% of the matches and lost 70%)

Now for the fuzzy math that sugar coats the issue and make it appears as though balance is close using the way the stat board works in faction play. Since it credits each faction with a win or loss based on the team faction make up not the number of players on the team from that faction.

Clan Factions won 16 times
Clan Factions lost 8 times
Already you can see that it has deflated the K/D ratio to make it look like the clan only won 50% matches when they actually won 70% of the matches

IS Factions won 13 times
IS Factions lost 25 times
Here too we can see that the stat method employed inflates the K/D ratio for the IS to over 50% when they actually only won 30% of the matches.

As you can see the stat method used in faction play only makes it appear as though the game is nearly balanced when in fact it is telling you that the clan is winning way over 80% of the matches based on the current stats for the season if you assume the typical IS team has on average 4 to 5 factions on it and the Clan team typically has 1 or 2 with an occasional 3.

Some folks keep saying add them all up and divide by 4 and 6 respectively, that makes even less sense due to the way the stat system is setup and would result in meaningless numbers as well.

Not sure you're understanding the system. I've explained why it might be wrong in the post above yours, but your post doesn't get it right.


It doesn't matter if it was 2 Clam factions or 1 Clam faction, because you add the total up, and if there were 8 Wolf Players, 4 Bear in one match, then a 3/3/3/3 split loss in another.

That's 12 wins for Clams and 12 losses for Clams, not 2 wins and 4 losses.
As I understand it anyhow

Your method makes absolutely no sense, as a practical leaderboard setup, so I hope they didn't do that.
They track Kills and Deaths, so you'd have to assume they're using individual player stats in a SQLdatabase, and just combining those stats from the players.

[Tiantara]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

At that point you are only 30% from basically making them Clan XLs, wasn't that something you wanted to avoid? If the point is to minimize the problems IS have, then stop beating around the bush and make them Clan XLs until a better solution is made. Otherwise accept what we have and wait until they can change how engines work and the iXL can be designed better.

- That's why I suggest make speed loss bigger than Clan for the start. Let mech fight for the last second, not die from pinpoint shot from side. Right now all game Clan vs IS based on one thing - search which IS mech run too fast for it's model and aim for side torso. No need to be great pilot if you well skilled sniper and have backup as 1-2 such sniper as you are to take down unusual fast IS mech in one precise well timing shot. Agree that isn't competitive game when 1\3 of your team become dead because they not all good to avoid it? In result too often I see battle of 8 IS mech vs 12 Clan when 4 mech waiting their next drop.

If change to speed loss - they become not dead but still some targets which draw some attention to them anyway. Yeap - pro pilot maybe press K. But strategy changes and that slow targets can win some critical time to win.
Why I say about 50% and more speed penalty? Because some IS heavy can put extreme XL engine and run even faster than Clan (much faster). Yes, they probably have less DHS, maybe armor and weapon, or ammo. But before become slow target can do impact and not die from oneshot again. In good pilot hand they can make that balance on the edge.

We get something like that:
Clan - more firepower, less armor, more speed and agility, bigger range.
IS - two groups - slow longrange support and interceptors with a bit longer live to bite enemy.

Game become longer, each pilot get chance to fight till the end.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

Because some IS heavy can put extreme XL engine and run even faster than Clan (much faster).

This is false, no IS mech will ever run faster than a Clan mech WITH comparable firepower. Speaking of which the only IS heavies with high enough engine caps to even MATCH Clan heavy speeds are the Dragon, Quickdraw, and one Black Knight. Again, if you are going to add speed penalties instead of side torso, you might as well go all the way and make the iXL function the exact same that way they are at least equal (minus crit differences) and you can start removing quirks and stop beating around the bush of "mitigating" things.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 February 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Quirks and telling people to shut up about engine balance

[Tiantara]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

This is false, no IS mech will ever run faster than a Clan mech WITH comparable firepower. Speaking of which the only IS heavies with high enough engine caps to even MATCH Clan heavy speeds are the Dragon, Quickdraw, and one Black Knight. Again, if you are going to add speed penalties instead of side torso, you might as well go all the way and make the iXL function the exact same that way they are at least equal (minus crit differences) and you can start removing quirks and stop beating around the bush of "mitigating" things.

- Multiple IS mech already have no comparable firepower due low weapon hardpoints count. Or really lack in range. Or have easy critted weapon which take many slots at once. Anyway - all what was not a problem when we have IS vs IS FP now - problem. Because medium skilled pilots simply bad on IS mech which need greater skill, better understanding weak and strong sides and more advanced builds which take more c-bills than "ready to use clan mech out of box".
Maybe great idea will be ability to by mech after changing it's loadup with corrected cost. Like I can take mech in store, change it and buy result, not whole mech as is and change later... but...

- Okey okey, speed penalty comes to mind right after previous pull. Any other penalty which can leave mech alive after loosing side torso but not death one. Im open for suggestion.
Because after what I see on PTS - any weapon\heat\armor\structure balance tools have no affect to "glass mech" in medium skilled pilots and they become ballast in FP, or become clan mech nerf. Both results - not what I can call "great".
And we don't get exact XL because of LORE.

So we need to find some penalty which keeps mech alive after side torso loss but in same time not death penalty but close to it. I even understand what some asymmetrical IS mech already punished enough for loosing side torso - but there must have skill of torso shielding. Empty of weapon torso.
I even agree with some "compensator component" about 2-2.5tonn to compensate one side torso loosing to make mech survivable. Or something like that.
Anyway - I still think that IS mech become more popular and can balance FP population only after some engine change.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

- Multiple IS mech already have no comparable firepower due low weapon hardpoints count.

Wrong, IS mechs don't have comparable firepower due to having heavier, larger, and/or less effective weapons. Your next couple sentences even hint at it but you hand wave them away.

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

Anyway - all what was not a problem when we have IS vs IS FP now

It was a problem because no one really bothered with FP, you are acting like because it wasn't a problem in one small segment that it wasn't a problem elsewhere and that is straight up false and asinine.

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

And we don't get exact XL because of LORE.

What is that saying: "for balance - core rule ignore"?

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

So we need to find some penalty which keeps mech alive after side torso loss but in same time not death penalty but close to it.

No, we need to find a way for IS mechs to have the same TTK as Clan mechs.

[The Lighthouse]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

No, we need to find a way for IS mechs to have the same TTK as Clan mechs.

Yes, and Tiantara just said how to make TTK same as Clan mechs, by just giving IS XL not explode when side torso is gone.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The Lighthouse, on 01 February 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

Yes, and Tiantara just said how to make TTK same as Clan mechs, by just giving IS XL not explode when side torso is gone.

Except he wants a higher speed penalty, which means they won't have the same TTK, but I like how you left out the important bit.

[Tiantara]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Wrong, IS mechs don't have comparable firepower due to having heavier, larger, and/or less effective weapons. Your next couple sentences even hint at it but you hand wave them away.

- Nope. 1\3 of all IS mech have pretty nice firepower and can compete with Clan mech but... if they have longer live. Not by overall armor buff, but change of XL engine. And speed penalty is not so big deal if you loose speed in range of 400m. You still can give enemy 2-3 shots before you die completely. Or more, if you have cover from your teammates. So - many mech have no such firepower - but not all IS.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

It was a problem because no one really bothered with FP, you are acting like because it wasn't a problem in one small segment that it wasn't a problem elsewhere and that is straight up false and asinine.

- Again nope... when we have IS vs IS - there was less problem because fast XL compensates by weak point and slow by STD survivability. With same firepower from both side. Right now we have only Clan vs IS. And right now weakness of XL become real problem. In quick game any change of XL have less effect anyway. Because of Mix Tech.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

What is that saying: "for balance - core rule ignore"?

- Yeaah... but not here seems by many post on other pages.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

No, we need to find a way for IS mechs to have the same TTK as Clan mechs.

- Speed penalty instead of Death - give mech that TTK. Even 50% of speed loss give that... because of armor they still can provide fire support.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

- Nope. 1\3 of all IS mech have pretty nice firepower and can compete with Clan mech but

What mech exactly has competitive firepower? Just out of curiosity. For example what IS heavy can compete with the Night Gyr's 40 PPFLD alpha? What IS medium can compete with the output of the HBK-IIC-A? What IS light can do as much as a 6 cSPL Cheetah?

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

- Again nope... when we have IS vs IS

FFS, IS vs IS was not a common thing. Barely anyone played Faction Warfare so using that as some proof that there was no problem is asinine, because in other queues this HAS been a problem since the introduction of Clans.....but by all means keep living in this alternate reality where IS vs IS matches were a commonplace thing.....

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

- Speed penalty instead of Death - give mech that TTK. Even 50% of speed loss give that... because of armor they still can provide fire support.

It is a higher TTK, but still not equivalent to Clans which is my point.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 February 2017 - 01:50 PM.

[Tiantara]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

What mech exactly has competitive firepower? Just out of curiosity. For example what IS heavy can compete with the Night Gyr's 40 PPFLD alpha? What IS medium can compete with the output of the HBK-IIC-A? What IS light can do as much as a 6 cSPL Cheetah?

- No matter of range? Battlemaster, Atlas, King Crab, Mauler, Stalker, Awesome, Cataphract, Thunderbolt, Warhammer, BlackKnight, Crab, Griffin, Trebuchet, Centurion. Light IS mech really have low firepower and can only use speed and agility... not always with good result. Another question about range. Most of them have only short or medium battle range and just can't go to close to target on open space. Some mech have great range with low heat impact - but yes, their alpha much lower sometimes not bigger than 30. But again - what mean long range? If team have well skilled spotter - ERLL + LRM can do really huge impact. Since more fragile clan Gauss - well skilled sniper can take 1-2 c-gauss of game. But before that pilot need live longer.
And there we come back to engine change.
If you get 40PPFLD to your XL torso - you dead even if you have some power to answer.
If you get 40PPFLD to your XL torso and have speed penalty - you can fire back with same or less power and do damage to that lucky gauss user, maybe take its weapon out of play. Difference in seconds, but they change balance to right direction.
Same with brawling - you get some seconds of battle by sacrificing one of your side torso without weapon in it or less part of it.

Also, if we get Energy Draw system from PTS - all alpha will be reduced to 30-32 safe range or mech take huge impact for using bigger power than allowed. So we get more "split alphas" and in same time a bit more space to maneuver. Yes, 40 pinpoint damage still lethal - that why I vote for taking off death penalty and replacing it with something else.

In same time. HBK-IIC-A pretty weak with armor and can be beaten with proper build of strong enough IS mech. Another thing that HBK-IIC-A still live after loosing side torso and have at least 1\2 of firepower with alpha burst or cold chainfire, whyle all other IS mech dead in same situation. About Clan light - Adder pretty slow and wide. Only few builds really deadly. Jenner IIC just better model of IS. Kit Fox easy to take off game by ripping its hands. Mist Linx all weapon have in one arm. Well, take one arm off not so problematic. Cheetah - right. Good mech mostly because of ECM and best mech to fight with it - Wolfhound, Firestarter and, maybe Panther. But only if they have no death penalty of using XL. Most problem from Cheetah have IS heavy and assaults. Because they don't see danger and easy lost back armor plate. Also not so many IS light have ECM, because modular construction of Clan mech make possible place ECM on each model if at least one have it by replacing omnipods.
What else... oh. Clan have no more light mech.

IS have great sniper light mech and some nice fast scouting like commando and locust. But team run for damage not for teamplay activity like really scouting, spotting and support fire. And even counting it - IS light easy frag in medium skilled hands.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

FFS, IS vs IS was not a common thing. Barely anyone played Faction Warfare so using that as some proof that there was no problem is asinine, because in other queues this HAS been a problem since the introduction of Clans.....but by all means keep living in this alternate reality where IS vs IS matches were a commonplace thing.....

- Back days I mostly fight in IS vs IS conflict rather then vs Clan. Population of good pilots was nearly in balance and those who have no will to fight against "OP Clans" or OP armored IS" fight against same faction. So yes. before Clans it was a problem, but less than now. Again, in QP with mixed technology and 1\3 IS mech on both side - game go nice. But when we put only IS mech and only Clan mech in conflict on different sides - we see problem of low TTK. To change that - we have buffs, but they don't work because it placed on whole mech surface. +3-10 armor to side torso won't change result if it gets 1-2 shots with power equal to 4\5 of all armor and structure points.
And yes - in IS vs IS we have lower alpha and side torso was able to sustain 3-4 shots before mech come to optimal range.

What about queue problem - that was result of stand alone houses. 6 houses each of which was enemy to other unless they come to fight against clan. Making not whole pool for IS but 2 general faction from 3 hauses each and 2 general clans with 2 clan in each = preserve IS vs IS conflict in more live state. If population changes - recalculate to make 1 more populated house main and add 2 less populated houses to it. Same with other. It's easy mechanic. Quite not a canonic maybe, but good for gameplay. Also that make merc migration less impactfull.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

It is a higher TTK, but still not equivalent to Clans which is my point.

- Higher. Yes. Those few seconds of battle make pilot better sometimes and TTK become longer. If pilot take shot and loose speed he use weapon to fight back as long as he can. Next time he change build to make one longrange weapon preserved to fight back more effective. Some abttle after he learn how to twist torso to save speed till last moment and use medium weapon near enemy. He get time to learn instead of simply death and go to another match where he die again and... so on.
That's why I call it a first step.
Still we have STD which great on mech from heavy to assaults. And there many builds which works perfectly. More of it - I have some IIC mech and use STD engine in them because I don't won't have my builds affected by heat and speed penalty as Clan XL have.
So taking death penalty and giving speed penalty already make learning curve for new and medium skilled pilots much better.
If we have 1-2 week of PTS server test such mechanic - you'll see how IS mech become more popular and how some bulky models come to live again. And I talking about hero also - which purchased by real money.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

At this point I'm done talking with you, I don't know if it is a language barrier or you are simply adding in assumptions that you aren't stating but either way you are ignorant to how bad the IS currently or what makes some of the Clan mechs strong....

[Sjorpha]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

At this point I'm done talking with you, I don't know if it is a language barrier or you are simply adding in assumptions that you aren't stating but either way you are ignorant to how bad the IS currently or what makes some of the Clan mechs strong....

You noticed how all his posts look like they are written in another language and just dropped in google translate? I assume that is also how he reads the forum. This is bound to cause confusion.

In any case it is the same old nonsense. Pretend you want balance but somehow manage to suggest the IS should stay inferior because reasons.

There is nothing mysterious or complex about the current engine/tech imbalance, and not about fixing it either. All that kind of talk is self serving sophistry.

Edited by Sjorpha, 01 February 2017 - 04:12 PM.

[Tiantara]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 February 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

At this point I'm done talking with you, I don't know if it is a language barrier or you are simply adding in assumptions that you aren't stating but either way you are ignorant to how bad the IS currently or what makes some of the Clan mechs strong....

- Ok, you asked me about mech - I name you models which can handle builds enough powerful to handle Clan mech. To name specific models need a bit more time, if you really want that list with builds based on it. Especially if you need firepower for each range. I know about weak points of IS mech. But also I really understand why PGI newer do IS XL same as clan.
Because many of IS mech become to overarmored and structure overquirked.

For example:
Orion ON1-M can get 77KPH speed with 35 pinpoint damage and armor close to assault mech and after loosing side torso keep 25 pinpoint damage for long range.

Marauder MDD-5d same 77KPH speed and 45 pinpoint damage and 27dmg if he loose side torso. Also structure better than same clan mech same tonnage.

Shadow Hawk SHD-202 with speed 106 it can get 46 firepower 20 from which pinpoint and preserve 36 firepower after one side torso destroyed.

Enforcer ENF-5D with speed 106 have 29 pinpoint damage and lose non of it if one side torso wrecked.

Right now for pinpoint damage back we can use really few IS mech. Most of which slow or glass cannon like Jager.
Even gausspult K2 just powder barrel with Gauss placed near XL engine, but it can deliver 30 pinpoint damage and have 78KPH speed.

- I also know what makes Clan mech strong. More hardpoints, flexible omnipods builds, bigger range of heatmanagement - you can make less hot mech with smaller alpha but still a bit bigger than IS one. Bigger range which become bigger with TCMK component and mech modules. Agility and speed for all models - like 70KPH speed for assault mech and not less than 80KPH speed for heavy, what give them ability to preserve long range to fight comfortable.
They have weakness like low armor comparing to IS. But when they can use side torso as shield...


Did I answer to your questions about my point of view?

Playing with builds and searching for good one can discover another dis-balance if PGI make IS XL same. Making them same bring us revision of all quirks and buffs, especially on those mech which become too great and hard killing targets for Clan because of their armor buffs. I understand why developers afraid do that. That why I searching for penalty higher than Clan but not so radical like death. Or we see further quirks changing, nerfing any good mech and weapons cooldown\heat rebalancing to make TTK bigger. I'm a bit tired of nerfing you know... nerfing only because some mech die too fast when another have a good power in right hands.

But I'm afraid we don't get IS XL even with 70% speed penalty, more likely we get enother Clan XL nerf or debuff to mech with possibility hold 40 PPFLD inside. As always. And another tonnage drop change.

Sjorpha, on 01 February 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

You noticed how all his posts look like they are written in another language and just dropped in google translate? I assume that is also how he reads the forum. This is bound to cause confusion.

- Precise observation... Not my native language but I try my best. But problem not in understanding.
I just try look on situation also from developer position who want sell mech, give free mech with some weakness to make more mechbay sold and c-bills spend for searching better build and make mech more competitive.
I can't agree with changes which from developer side I can see as damage to incoming funds or make new mech less good comparing to old one. Also here many other problem which need to fix or remake, but developers spend time to balancing around weak point trying in same time preserve it. I want player be happy (especially medium skilled who will spend money and buy hero mech and mastering bundles) and in same time save main developers goal - keep receiving funds from mechbay, mech and preorders sell.

Sjorpha, on 01 February 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

In any case it is the same old nonsense. Pretend you want balance but somehow manage to suggest the IS should stay inferior because reasons.

- I really glad to see IS XL same as Clan with current heat penalty and clan without current heat penalty. But I understand that impossible due developing course. That why I try find another suggestion to keep penalty hard but not deadly.

Edited by Tiantara, 01 February 2017 - 05:28 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Tiantara, on 01 February 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

For example:
Orion ON1-M can get 77KPH speed with 35 pinpoint damage and armor close to assault mech and after loosing side torso keep 25 pinpoint damage for long range.

Marauder MDD-5d same 77KPH speed and 45 pinpoint damage and 27dmg if he loose side torso. Also structure better than same clan mech same tonnage.

Shadow Hawk SHD-202 with speed 106 it can get 46 firepower 20 from which pinpoint and preserve 36 firepower after one side torso destroyed.

Enforcer ENF-5D with speed 106 have 29 pinpoint damage and lose non of it if one side torso wrecked.

can you provide the builds? hard to follow
Orion with 2 PPC and 1 Gauss? - it's obvious that the RT will be penetrated first - and when its 2 PPC and a gauss why not run the full "glass cannon" maybe you can drop the ammo by a ton and turn the PPCs into ER ones - because you won't live long enough

or when you think you are good in twisting: ON1-M

but both mechs are obvious inferior to the Night Gyr

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 February 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[Guile Votoms]

I'd switch the whole game to IS vs Clans, let clan tech be clearly superior and change clan teams to 2 5-man stars instead of 3 4-man lances.

You could also add IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan modes, but mixed teams should never have been an option.

Edited by Guile Votoms, 02 February 2017 - 12:54 AM.

[visionGT4]

Guile Votoms, on 02 February 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

I'd switch the whole game to IS vs Clans, let clan tech be clearly superior and change clan teams to 2 5-man stars instead of 3 4-man lances.

You could also add IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan modes, but mixed teams should never have been an option.

Being gang bashed by a binary of entitled 12 year olds doesn't sound like much fun to me.

10x KDK3 vs 12x WHM
10x MADIIc vs 12x WHM
10x NGT vs 12x WHM
10x TBR vs 12x WHM

all day, every day the smart monies is on easy mode.

Edited by visionGT4, 02 February 2017 - 01:28 AM.