310 replies to this topic

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I personally don't have a problem with a minor PTW system, I get that it's money that keeps their lights on so no worries. As long as they don't distribute a clear over performing mech or give modules that allow this, then it's all square IMO.

Will it convince me to buy them, i'd like a purifier but it's not convinced me it's worthwhile even if it comes on sale. I got eyes on another price.

[Mechteric]

Every time someone misuses the term Pay-To-Win incorrectly it lessens the meaning of the term. Please, think of the children who need to know what games actually are Pay-To-Win versus not (like MWO).

[Ted Wayz]

It is a Kit Fox.

Who cares?

[Mystere]

Ted Wayz, on 28 January 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

It is a Kit Fox.

Who cares?

But, but, but ... it is the best thing ever ... for a Kit Fox!!!

[Mcgral18]

Ted Wayz, on 28 January 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

It is a Kit Fox.

Who cares?

And if it weren't a Cute Fox?

Say, a Marauder 2C?
Would it be fine then?
How about a SuperNova?


P2W mechs are never fine.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 28 January 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

And if it weren't a Cute Fox?

Say, a Marauder 2C?
Would it be fine then?
How about a SuperNova?


P2W mechs are never fine.

I don't consider a trash-level mech that is better than every other trash-level mech, especially if it's just within the same trash-level chassis, as something that is P2W just because it also happens to be a paid-for mech. It's called trash-level for a reason.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 28 January 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

I don't consider a trash-level mech that is better than every other trash-level mech, especially if it's just within the same trash-level chassis, as something that is P2W just because it also happens to be a paid-for mech. It's called trash-level for a reason.

Scorch certainly isn't Trash Tier
It even has an advantage over the Kodiak...with some disadvantages of Ape Arms

[G4LV4TR0N]

If you guys can't win in Kit Fox without -PR variant than maybe it's bad mech for you? Maybe you shouldn't even go Kit Fox in a first place? Perhaps you should go back to ACH's and JR7-IIC's and stop complaining? I guess those are the mechs that make you win, right?

Just wondering.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 28 January 2017 - 06:53 PM.

[Mole]

So the Purifier has 10% more MG ROF than my completely free Kitfox S. And in order to achieve that must give up holding any kind of real firepower in the arms, thus making the Purifier side torsos mandatory to be even halfway decent. You know what I'd do with a Purifier? I'd build it exactly the same way I built my Kit Fox S. Except the lasers would move to the torsos and the MGs to the arms, and I'd lose my jumpjets. I COULD put Kitfox S legs on it, but then I would be carrying an extra ton of jumpjets that I do not need and thus my Purifier would be less heat efficient than my already hot Kitfox S. I would also lose the ability to shoot down UAVs and otherwise fire my main weaponry on targets outside of my torso arc since my only arm weapons are MGs. My Kitfox S is sounding downright superior right about now, 10% MG ROF be damned. Heat efficiency and jumpjets are leaps and bounds better than a 10% MG ROF buff when you can only realistically carry two of them anyway while receiving that buff.

Edited by Mole, 28 January 2017 - 07:16 PM.

[MacClearly]

Ghogiel, on 27 January 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

MFW defends P2W with **** like "hey it's just $XXXX you peasant dev gotta eat ggclose"

Oh I completely understand...sort of. You see I frown when I see that someone is unable to communicate effectively or put together a sentence.

I disagree with your point that ten dollars is enough for you to jump straight to it being a have vs. have not. Peasants, really?

So if you are unwilling to spend the ten dollars (as I think anybody who can afford and computer and internet to play this game on can probably scrape it together) than you can wait a year. Not that unreasonable and a company has to do something to get people to spend money so yeah, the developer has to pay for the costs somehow.

[Appogee]

It's a slippery slope ... would have been better to keep avoiding it.

[Mole]

MacClearly, on 28 January 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

Oh I completely understand...sort of. You see I frown when I see that someone is unable to communicate effectively or put together a sentence.

I disagree with your point that ten dollars is enough for you to jump straight to it being a have vs. have not. Peasants, really?

So if you are unwilling to spend the ten dollars (as I think anybody who can afford and computer and internet to play this game on can probably scrape it together) than you can wait a year. Not that unreasonable and a company has to do something to get people to spend money so yeah, the developer has to pay for the costs somehow.

I think his point is that you should not defend a poor business practice by saying "But it's cheap, so so what?" It's still a despicable practice that should be shunned merely on principle instead of rewarded even if it only cost a penny. It's really not about the price being unreasonable as it is about not letting them get away with being unrepentant shitlords. That being said, I'm merely explaining his position. I don't believe that having a 10% MG ROF buff on a 'mech that is behind a paywall is pay to win. If you see my above post, I even fleshed out how the Purifier's arm omnipods are even possibly inferior to the free to play Kit Fox S omnipods. Some people are just really chomping at the bits to slap the P2W tag on PGI for some reason. I've even heard claims as ridiculous as Warhorns being pay to win.

[MacClearly]

Mole, on 28 January 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

I think his point is that you should not defend a poor business practice by saying "But it's cheap, so so what?" It's still a despicable practice that should be shunned merely on principle instead of rewarded even if it only cost a penny. It's really not about the price being unreasonable as it is about not letting them get away with being unrepentant shitlords. That being said, I'm merely explaining his position. I don't believe that having a 10% MG ROF buff on a 'mech that is behind a paywall is pay to win. If you see my above post, I even fleshed out how the Purifier's arm omnipods are even possibly inferior to the free to play Kit Fox S omnipods. Some people are just really chomping at the bits to slap the P2W tag on PGI for some reason. I've even heard claims as ridiculous as Warhorns being pay to win.

Everyone hates it and can't stand when people bring it up but...the company has to make money.

Personally I will accept if the best variant is behind a paywall if it is not one the best mech in the game. Like my favourite mech The Jester. It is a hero and I would argue it is the best because of the highest engine cap, jump jets and it fitting into current meta nicely. You could do something vey competitive with the K2 however. The Jester is however not the best mech in the game.

So I can't just go buy it and wreck everyone in my path, especially the crap ton of players who have more skill than I do. People have very strong and better mechs that they can use against my Jester. Hey you can grind out enough for some Ebon Jags even. I think a lot of guys get stuck on what pay to win means and pretty much consider anything they can't have for free as unfair. Maybe it is but it certainly isn't making it impossible for them to compete or succeed...

For PGI to survive they need to offer stuff that provides some value if they want people to spend money. Just out of a pure business sense why would anybody buy a hero mech if it didn't offer them some value?

[Y E O N N E]

The Jester doesn't fit into the current meta at all...

Stop perpetuating the "laser vomit is the meta" myth, because it's flat-out wrong. You are about a year out of date by this point, because the solution to the current state of the game favors PPFLD peeking and pop-tarting, occasionally sustained DPS with dakka, but not face-staring with hot, slow laser vomit. The K2 actually fits much better, since you can run 2x PPC and your choice of any AC to complement them, and you can even competently do it on a STD engine.

Other than that, carry on.

[MacClearly]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 January 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

The Jester doesn't fit into the current meta at all...

Stop perpetuating the "laser vomit is the meta" myth, because it's flat-out wrong. You are about a year out of date by this point, because the solution to the current state of the game favors PPFLD peeking and pop-tarting, occasionally sustained DPS with dakka, but not face-staring with hot, slow laser vomit. The K2 actually fits much better, since you can run 2x PPC and your choice of any AC to complement them, and you can even competently do it on a STD engine.

Other than that, carry on.

I did not mention meta once nor was I perpetuating anything....

This is not a meta or comp conversation I am having. It might surprise you but in quick play and FW there are a lot of srm's and large pulse lasers flying around. Hell even boating er large on Battlemasters and Stalkers is a thing. But you go on and get your panties in a bunch.

[Chuck Jager]

If you want something you need to pay for it or do without. Even in liberal socialist countries this pretty much applies to everything but food, housing and healthcare and even then that is not true in reality.

In the US I am worried about the $3000 dollars of healthcare I need per month for treatable conditions with a minimum insurance cost of $1000 a month.

If somebody wants crap for free they are not helping this game and somebody is supporting their ability to grind on the internet. In my opinion they are the greedy corporate scum taking and not giving while blaming others.

F2P only exist to get bodies in the Q. PGIs job is to sell a product to paying customers, but they need to keep the F2P coming back as oblivious fodder for the paying customers.

The only reason I am taking this tone is because this is the easiest most fair non subscription grind I have ever encountered in a F2P game.

[Tarogato]

Oh, I didn't realise this was a Purifier is pay-to-win thread.


Actually, I agree.

I have a 350 average match score in lights this season, been sliding in and out of the top 20. Played exclusively with my Purifier. I don't think I would have a score this high in any other light mech, not the ACH, not the JR7-IIC, nothing. So I think it's pay-to-win. And I'm going to put that to the test by playing a different light exclusively next month and seeing how it fares in comparison.


(PGI, why don't you have the Purifier on the profile mech stats page? Grrr... )

Edit: nvm, it was MadStats that didn't have it listed. That means I can just export it to my spreadsheet...





ROFL... 500 average damage in a light mech, that's more than most of my heavies and assaults. PGI really should release some torso energy omnipods for C-Bills, because this is pretty ridiculous.

Edited by Tarogato, 29 January 2017 - 03:26 AM.

[GreyNovember]

To be fair, this is a rather gray area.

The Medusa is a good example of iffy P2W. On one hand, sure, you get 2E more because of the arms. On the other hand, the bloody thing is ALREADY really hot to run with SL/SPL, and adding more just hurts your sustainability.

So in this scenario it's a question of whether or not the potential of having a higher initial alpha is strictly superior.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Tarogato, on 29 January 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

Oh, I didn't realise this was a Purifier is pay-to-win thread.


Actually, I agree.

I have a 350 average match score in lights this season, been sliding in and out of the top 20. Played exclusively with my Purifier. I don't think I would have a score this high in any other light mech, not the ACH, not the JR7-IIC, nothing. So I think it's pay-to-win. And I'm going to put that to the test by playing a different light exclusively next month and seeing how it fares in comparison.


(PGI, why don't you have the Purifier on the profile mech stats page? Grrr... )

Edit: nvm, it was MadStats that didn't have it listed. That means I can just export it to my spreadsheet...





ROFL... 500 average damage in a light mech, that's more than most of my heavies and assaults. PGI really should release some torso energy omnipods for C-Bills, because this is pretty ridiculous.

I don't see much difference in your KFX-PR and KFX-C stats.

[Tarogato]

G4LV4TR0N, on 29 January 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

I don't see much difference in your KFX-PR and KFX-C stats.

My Purifier has twice as many matches played. Chances are if I played my KFX-C more, its average would go down. Averages can be volatile less than 50 matches, and don't truly stabilise until about 100 matches.