37 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

The6thMessenger, on 29 January 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

he heaviest that can run XL100 is 50 tonners, and their speed is at 32.4, 34.8 with speed tweak.

Stalker said hello btw.

not that its a serious build or anything

Edited by Navid A1, 29 January 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Navid A1, on 29 January 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

Stalker said hello btw.

not that its a serious build or anything

Hmm, i did not see that on smurphy.

Well, it's not like it's a contending engine, that it could be OP/UP for PGI to care at all.

[Lord Perversor]

Seriously Navid you bring all this issues right now? those where well know since the early days they introduced those.

That's why the stock Urbie STD 60 runs a neg weight valor.

The Boompoke!

And yes people was toying with the wrong engines since closed beta, the 400 Engine Swaybacks or my cherished SlugBoy (a Std 100 Atlas on closed beta with a top speed under 20 kph) where spotted a bit on the early days until everyone went with min max performance engines.

[Navid A1]

Lord Perversor, on 29 January 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Seriously Navid you bring all this issues right now? those where well know since the early days they introduced those.

That's why the stock Urbie STD 60 runs a neg weight valor.

The Boompoke!

And yes people was toying with the wrong engines since closed beta, the 400 Engine Swaybacks or my cherished SlugBoy (a Std 100 Atlas on closed beta with a top speed under 20 kph) where spotted a bit on the early days until everyone went with min max performance engines.

?

um... what?

So... is there a problem somewhere?

I mean... XL 100 engine should weigh -0.5 tons, any problem with that?

[PhoenixFire55]

We also have a Std.75 engine that weights -3t.
Thats not a dash, thats a minus.

Clueless, is all.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 30 January 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[RestosIII]

'remembers to check this thread to see if I understand it'

'4 AM instead of 5 AM'

I have the best planning. And apparently, a single hour makes the difference! I get what's here!

'Clicks the one link'

Yeah, still can't understand that one. Maybe at 3 AM I'll get it.

[LordNothing]

Navid A1, on 29 January 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

If it was not for PGI I could totally run this monster:

Monster

or this abomination:

A sin

or even this:

Pure Evil

i run mine with an std100 engine because rebel

[Dee Eight]

Tarogato, on 29 January 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

I'm not sure where you're getting this. Here is the PXH-3M stock build replicated with every single minute detail (except for which slots are occupied by the Endo)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9452b27a8830ac7

And it works out perfectly.


Edit: oh, I think I see what you're saying. Sarna.net says it's supposed to have two tons of MG ammo. Is that a typo?

From page 111 of the FASA Technical Read Outs:3050 source book entry for the PHX-3M. Its 2 ER Large lasers, 2 Medium Pulse, AMS with 2 tons of ammo, MG with 1 ton of ammo, CASE, 6 jump jets, 8 tons of standard armor (which is 128 points). Sarna is FULL of errors because the entries aren't always made by FASA/Catalyst staffers and former staffers. Many entries are member edited (just like wikipedia). If you double the battletech 128 points of armor as PGI does for MWO, its 256 points NOT the 240 as your mechlab entry is built as. That's half a ton of armor that they eliminated when they converted the mech, because again, they don't track engine/structure weights properly.

Edited by Dee Eight, 30 January 2017 - 02:13 AM.

[Dee Eight]

LegoPirate, on 29 January 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

wrong, the mist lynx prime and A both mount 2 MGs in their right arm. and they both have them in mwo.

http://www.sarna.net...ist_Lynx_(Koshi)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=225&l=stock

Bzzzt wrong ! But thanks for playing. The Sarna entry is wrong. See above... many entries have been altered/edited to match how PGI has done them in MWO. They do not match the actual printed Battletech sourcebooks though. The Myst Lynx prime correctly mounts a single MG and a full ton of ammo for it. NOT two MGs and a half ton of ammo as PGI would like you to believe. This is one of the reasons why SOOOOO many mechs, especially clan mechs, experienced hardpoint creep. If a design has a single MG and they don't want to explain they've been cheating the players on tonnage since closed beta, they add a second one and thus we get a mech with two ballistic mounts.

The Vipers also have this altered hardpoints, but instead of adding another they subtracted one. The Viper C is supposed to have FIVE machineguns in the side torsos, not four. Its 2 in the LT, 3 in the RT, 2 tons of ammo in the LT and 1 ton in the RT.

For the core 15 clan omnis, the correct free pod spaces are Viper 8.75, Lynx 8.75, adder 16.25 tons, Ice Ferret 9.75, Nova 16.25. Hellbringer 28.75, Summoner 22.75, Gladiator 21.75, Executioner 26.25, and everything else had even tonnages ending in .0 or .5.

Edited by Dee Eight, 30 January 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[Tarogato]

Dee Eight, on 30 January 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Bzzzt wrong ! But thanks for playing. The Sarna entry is wrong. See above... many entries have been altered/edited to match how PGI has done them in MWO. They do not match the actual printed Battletech sourcebooks though. The Myst Lynx prime correctly mounts a single MG and a full ton of ammo for it. NOT two MGs and a half ton of ammo as PGI would like you to believe. This is one of the reasons why SOOOOO many mechs, especially clan mechs, experienced hardpoint creep. If a design has a single MG and they don't want to explain they've been cheating the players on tonnage since closed beta, they add a second one and thus we get a mech with two ballistic mounts.

The Vipers also have this altered hardpoints, but instead of adding another they subtracted one. The Viper C is supposed to have FIVE machineguns in the side torsos, not four. Its 2 in the LT, 3 in the RT, 2 tons of ammo in the LT and 1 ton in the RT.

For the core 15 clan omnis, the correct free pod spaces are Viper 8.75, Lynx 8.75, adder 16.25 tons, Ice Ferret 9.75, Nova 16.25. Hellbringer 28.75, Summoner 22.75, Gladiator 21.75, Executioner 26.25, and everything else had even tonnages ending in .0 or .5.

I can't seem to find an official record sheet or TRO for the PXH-3M, but I do have those clan ones.

From TRO 3050 Upgrade:









This seems to contradict what you're saying.

[Navid A1]

Tarogato, on 30 January 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

I can't seem to find an official record sheet or TRO for the PXH-3M, but I do have those clan ones.

I think he means the very original FASA TRO 3050. The one before the revised version (different from 3050 upgrade) that had the phoenix hawk.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Its very easy guys.

The original PXH-3M from the 1990 had 8t of armor. But they changed the rules. In the 2000 years the round to the nearest 0,5t rule replaced the old round to the nearest 0,25t rule.

So since this day the PXH-3M has only 7,5t of armor.

This is totaly official and not an idea from PGI.

Has realy nobody else the new and revised stats of the Mechs?

[Almond Brown]

This is a JOKE thread right? How does something weigh -.5t? Like really. I would hazard a guess that some players brains weigh -.5 grams perhaps but other than that... omfg this place...

[Navid A1]

Almond Brown, on 30 January 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

This is a JOKE thread right? How does something weigh -.5t? Like really. I would hazard a guess that some players brains weigh -.5 grams perhaps but other than that... omfg this place...

lol.

Your post is a joke right?
XD
XD

ok... ok...
Let me blow your mind. go check the weight on STD 60 engine (available only to urbanmechs).
Now...
Clean up the walls

dude... negative weights for engines in MWO is necessary in the way PGI mech design goes. In Battletech rules all engines have positive mass (duh) and come with 10 heat sinks (the first 10 heat sinks have 0 mass).

Since for sub-250 engines in MWO you need to add 1 ton heatsinks manually, engines such as XL100 and STD 60 need to have negative mass to compensate for the added weight of the heat sinks.



This is sad. I miss the time where people on the forums knew what they were talking about.

[cazidin]

Almond Brown, on 30 January 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

This is a JOKE thread right? How does something weigh -.5t? Like really. I would hazard a guess that some players brains weigh -.5 grams perhaps but other than that... omfg this place...

No. The standard 100 engine weighs negative tons. There are only two explanations for this. Either the Urbanmech utilizes unique and incredible quantum fields that negate tonnage beyond a certain size, or it doesn't ACTUALLY have negative tonnage, in-universe, but the engineers use tonnage as a very rough estimate of weight, so the standard 100 AND XL 100 simply weigh negative 0.5 tons on their imprecise scale.

[Navid A1]

cazidin, on 30 January 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

No. The standard 100 engine weighs negative tons. There are only two explanations for this. Either the Urbanmech utilizes unique and incredible quantum fields that negate tonnage beyond a certain size, or it doesn't ACTUALLY have negative tonnage, in-universe, but the engineers use tonnage as a very rough estimate of weight, so the standard 100 AND XL 100 simply weigh negative 0.5 tons on their imprecise scale.

Let me clarify yet again.

• In classic battletech rules, STD 100 engine weighs 3 tons and XL100 weighs 1.5 tons
  
• In classic battletech the first 10 heat sinks on any mech with any engine come free (0 mass)
  
• In classic battletech the Gyro, the cockpit, life support and sensors all have weight assined to them.

• In MWO the mech's Gyro, Life support, Sensors and Cockpit do not have any weight assigned (those weights are added to the engine)
  
• In MWO for sub-250 engines you MUST manual add extra heat sinks to reach the minimum 10
  
• In MWO extra heat sinks are 1 ton each
  
• To compensate the added weight of the extra heatsinks (to reach 10), MWO subtracts their weight from the total weight of the engine.

So we will have:

• Weight of the engine in MWO = Engine weight in CBT + Gyro/Cockpit/Life/Sensor weight in CBT - Extra heatsinks in MWO

A gyro in a mech with a 100 engine is 1 ton, and the total weight of the cockpit and Life support and sensors is 3 tons. However, In MWO, you will need 6 extra heatsinks (1 ton each) to make a valid mech. These extra heatsinks come free in the battletech rules. So, MWO compensates for that by subtracting the weight from the engine. Therefore, We have:

1.5 + 1 + 3 - 6 = -0.5 (how the weight of the XL100 engine should be in MWO)


Example for STD 60:
1.5 (weight of STD60 in CBT) + 1 (Gyro) + 3 (C/L/S) - 8 (extra heatsinks) = -2.5 (how it is in MWO right now)


An engine's weight in classic battletech rules is never negative. In MWO they have to make them negative so that everything adds up with the stuff that MWO does not take into account

Edited by Navid A1, 30 January 2017 - 12:09 PM.

[cazidin]

Navid A1, on 30 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Let me clarify yet again.

• In classic battletech rules, STD 100 engine weighs 3 tons and XL100 weighs 1.5 tons
  
• In classic battletech the first 10 heat sinks on any mech with any engine come free (0 mass)
  
• In classic battletech the Gyro, the cockpit, life support and sensors all have weight assined to them.

• In MWO the mech's Gyro, Life support, Sensors and Cockpit do not have any weight assigned (those weights are added to the engine)
  
• In MWO for sub-250 engines you MUST manual add extra heat sinks to reach the minimum 10
  
• In MWO extra heat sinks are 1 ton each
  
• To compensate the added weight of the extra heatsinks (to reach 10), MWO subtracts their weight from the total weight of the engine.

So we will have:

• Weight of the engine in MWO = Engine weight in CBT + Gyro/Cockpit/Life/Sensor weight in CBT - Extra heatsinks in MWO

A gyro in a mech with a 100 engine is 1 ton, and the total weight of the cockpit and Life support and sensors is 3 tons. However, In MWO, you will need 6 extra heatsinks (1 ton each) to make a valid mech. These extra heatsinks come free in the battletech rules. So, MWO compensates for that by subtracting the weight from the engine. Therefore, We have:


1.5 + 1 + 3 - 6 = -0.5 (how the weight of the XL100 engine should be in MWO)


Example for STD 60:
1.5 (weight of STD60 in CBT) + 1 (Gyro) + 3 (C/L/S) - 8 (extra heatsinks) = -2.5 (how it is in MWO right now)


An engine's weight in classic battletech rules is never negative. In MWO they have to make them negative so that everything adds up with the stuff that MWO does not take into account

...So, again, MW:O utilizes quantum fields and ultra-dense technobabble to shift the weight into an alternate pocket dimension?

Translation: This has no real world practical application nor does it make sense.

[Navid A1]

Update: got an answer from Paul 20 days ago saying that their mech guys are looking into this.

Feb patch and no fix
Waiting on March patch...



Somehow I think that I'm In for a long wait.