262 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Recently I've been discussing strong mechs for the IS with a few forumites and we've come up with a list or guide of sorts to all the mechs that, from what we can tell at this point, be strong T1 or T2 mechs. This isn't to say you must absolutely choose these or you're stupid, etc. Rather this is an informative post meant to bring these strong mechs to your attention.

A big thank you to Quicksilver Kalasa, Gas Guzzler and Yeonne Greene for participating in the initial discussion.

- All mechs have their base variant available by or before 3068
- Each mech was chosen for it's potential in MWO, ignoring how obscure or famous it might be.
- No matter how good these mechs are, without well implemented new weapons and equipment their impact will be minimal.

For the sake of discussion here are some questions you should think about:
- Which ones do you like?
- Which would be the strongest in MWO if added?
- If you had to pick one out of each class, which would you pick and why?
- Are there any mechs you feel should be here but aren't?

If you'd like to do some theorycrafting, visit this link: http://remlab.source...e.net/remlab30/
Feel free to share any builds you come up with.

- Light Mechs are kind of short on quality options and these are more like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

1. Osiris, 30t, mixed hardpoints but it has a lot of energy, high mounts and JJ
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Osiris

2. Razorback, 30t, high mounts with tight convergence and good speed, dependent on one variant to be strong
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Razorback

3. Nexus, 25t, energy boat, high mounts, JJ, ecm variant
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nexus

- Mediums have a strong lineup

1. Lynx, 55t energy with missiles on some variants, JJ. With reasonable inflation it could have 8 or 9 E HP's
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lynx

2. Men Shen, 55t omnimech, decent variety of pods, good speed with an option for MASC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Men_Shen

3. Lightray, 55t, energy boat capable of using a 400xl (385xl stock)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lightray

4. Raijin, 50t, energy and missile, ecm and high mounts, cockpit & above.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raijin

5. Starslayer, 50t, energy & missiles, fair speed, JJ, high mounts and corner poker
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Starslayer

- Heavies have some mechs with great potential

1. Dragon Fire, 75t, fair speed, ballistics with some energy in cockpit height mounts and ECM
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon_Fire

2. Toyama, 75t, fair speed, energy and ballistic with some missiles in cockpit height mounts, ECM and arms would help spread dmg.
http://www.sarna.net...ma_(BattleMech)

3. Falconer, 75t, great speed, can use a 400xl, energy with a touch of ballistics, JJ. MWO geo would fix most of it's issues
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Falconer

4. Flashman, 75t, great speed and can equip a 400xl, energy boat with decent mounts and narrow profile.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flashman

5. Thunder, 70t energy & ballistic with a touch of missiles, high mounts and excellent speed.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder

6. Jinggau, 65t energy and ballistic in cockpit height mounts, great speed, JJ, potential ECM & MASC variant.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jinggau

7. Onslaught, 75t, ballistic boat, excellent speed, high mounts, JJ.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Onslaught

- Assaults are practically overflowing with contenders but we narrowed it down.

1. Sagittaire, 95t, energy boat with a ballistic variant, high mounts, JJ
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sagittaire

2. Nightstar, 95t ballistic & energy in cockpit height mounts, 400 capable variant & a JJ variant
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nightstar (Also my SIG. has some info on this mech)

3. Cerberus, 95t ballistic with a touch of energy, 400 capable, fair mounts, epic ballistic boat potential.
http://www.sarna.net...us_(BattleMech)

4. Fafnir, 100t ballistic and energy in cockpit height mounts, ECM, one variant switches to arm mounted ballistics.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fafnir

5. Thunder Hawk, 100t ballistic & energy in fair to high mounts, excellent ballistic boat
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk

6. Gunslinger, 85t energy & ballistic, some high mounts, JJ and ECM.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gunslinger

Vote for what you think would be best here: https://mwomercs.com...chs-for-the-is/

Edited by TheArisen, 04 February 2017 - 09:36 PM.

[El Bandito]

Unfortunately all of them will require quirks to be T1-2. I personally just want my Longbow.

[Tristan Winter]

Now that PGI is creating their own mechs from scratch, they need to invent new light mechs that are worth a damn in MWO.

I'm a huge fan of playing light mechs, but I'm never buying another light mech for MWO unless it has 6+ energy and/or missile hardpoints distributed between torso and arms, jump jets, ECM and the capacity to move at ~150 kph or faster.

PGI has failed to make weight classes balanced, they've exacerbated the issue with rescaling that was never compensated for and I'm not paying real money for light mechs until they either fix that or continue the power creep to the point where light mechs are equal to other weight classes. PGI has made a game mode specifically for light mechs and mediums, where light mechs are basically cannon fodder. I've never seen anything like that in PVP games.

Only way I'm buying new light mechs is if they're at the level of the ACH or better. Even the ACH isn't really good enough to compete with the best medium mechs.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 31 January 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[Dogstar]

Wow that is a seriously fugly looking collection of mechs

[Hit the Deck]

Thanks for compiling them!

El Bandito, on 31 January 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

Unfortunately all of them will require quirks to be T1-2. I personally just want my Longbow.

While that might be true, I always like a well designed 'Mech (bonus point if it also looks good and balanced - not weapon boatingr meta cheese).

Whether they are competitive or not is not terribly important to me since I only play to see pretty robots fighting each others.

[Karl Streiger]

The Falconer style was huge fun in the last moments of CB and beginning of OB - running a CTF-3D with a single ERPPC and a Gauss both arm mounted plus climb jets (slow but you were able to get to better terrain) with a 340XL

however the playstyle "to flank and use the mobility to slip behind and above the enemy thrust" wouldn't work anymore first because of the general increased "speed" and second because of the poor jets.

Not to mention that the Falconer is almost maxed out - you will drop the 4 MLAS and some jets for more armor.
Mobility? Not with a 375XL already in use.

[MischiefSC]

IS mechs require quirks to be T1-T2, because ISXLs can't be as good as CXLs, because.... apparently, something something standard engines something (translate that to 'it would make sense and be balanced which doesn't fit in with our history of Ghost Heat and needlessly convoluted non-solutions that avoid directly fixing any balance issues').

The Nightstar is probably the closest. It's no KDK3 but it's a very solid mech.

[Snazzy Dragon]

So what you're saying is that all these mechs will be ignored in favor of the nostalgia-jerking annihilator?

[Bud Crue]

If they have high hard points ( and/or lots of them (M and E), then they will be fine. Good hit boxes too? Even better. And high engine cap? Best. If a light, they better be less than 35 tons or a chicken walker. If an assault they better be more than 80 tons.

Nothing else matters. Not Jump Jets, not an ECM variant, not MASC.
Their name, date of availability, funkiness of design, lore or any other non relevant to this here video game aspects need be considered.

Sigh.

Mechwarrior Online A Battletech Game.

I miss the days of being nostalgic for this stuff.

[Kangarad]

Gogo Sad Fafnir. impress em with dual heavy gauss and plasma rifles.

[Y E O N N E]

Tristan Winter, on 31 January 2017 - 01:41 AM, said:

Now that PGI is creating their own mechs from scratch, they need to invent new light mechs that are worth a damn in MWO.

The problem with Lights isn't that the 'Mechs suck, it's that we already have Lights for every role they can do. The only things that would be different are boated MagShots (6+) or OmniTech. One of them we might not get, the other isn't competitive because it's a little too slow (Raptor).

The Locust will remain the poke king for IS using ERML, the Spider stays as the sniper, and the Javelin will take care of the laser dueling and missile-bombing. There's really nothing else left, and all of those options are already solid. We don't strictly need more Lights for performance reasons, just for funsies.

Karl Streiger, on 31 January 2017 - 02:29 AM, said:

Not to mention that the Falconer is almost maxed out - you will drop the 4 MLAS and some jets for more armor.
Mobility? Not with a 375XL already in use.

You wouldn't run it with the 375, you'd run it with a 350, which gives you 35 tons to work with using EndoSteel and after pulling out 14 points of armor from somewhere. The 6 kph loss in speed is negligible, the weight savings are considerable. It's fast enough.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 31 January 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

IS mechs require quirks to be T1-T2, because ISXLs can't be as good as CXLs, because.... apparently, something something standard engines something (translate that to 'it would make sense and be balanced which doesn't fit in with our history of Ghost Heat and needlessly convoluted non-solutions that avoid directly fixing any balance issues').

Oh come on now, having XLs be objectively superior to STDs does not "make sense" or "be balanced." LegacyTech™ is bad and you should feel bad.

The real issue with PGI's statement is that they refuse to buff STD engines at the same time as an IS XL buff, especially because PGI acknowledges that the STD is already inferior to both types of XL.

Edited by FupDup, 31 January 2017 - 06:20 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 January 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

You wouldn't run it with the 375, you'd run it with a 350, which gives you 35 tons to work with using EndoSteel and after pulling out 14 points of armor from somewhere. The 6 kph loss in speed is negligible, the weight savings are considerable. It's fast enough.

in the end it became a "hoping" chicken/humanoid franken mech with the ability to poptart - considering the placement of the torso lasers

[Tristan Winter]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 January 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

The problem with Lights isn't that the 'Mechs suck, it's that we already have Lights for every role they can do. The only things that would be different are boated MagShots (6+) or OmniTech. One of them we might not get, the other isn't competitive because it's a little too slow (Raptor).
The Locust will remain the poke king for IS using ERML, the Spider stays as the sniper, and the Javelin will take care of the laser dueling and missile-bombing. There's really nothing else left, and all of those options are already solid. We don't strictly need more Lights for performance reasons, just for funsies.

wat?

Why is it a given that the Locust is the sweet spot and the highest potential of what any IS 20-35 ton mech can do? Did you misunderstand what I wrote? A 5 ton heavier variant of the Locust with the option to equip ECM and jump jets wouldn't be better? A Spider with better hardpoint locations and numbers* wouldn't be preferable?

* - Granted, PGI is probably going to inflate those numbers soon.

I'm not saying that jump jets or ECM is invaluable to the point where any light mechs without them is dead in the water. But if every light mech had the option to equip ECM and 1+ jump jets, how many would be without them?

[Buster Machine 0]

Release a MASC Atlas, give the IS a good streakboat 15 or so missile slots, and an ERPPC that also does splash damage!

And then release all the mechs that were in the previous mechwarrior games.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tristan Winter, on 31 January 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

A 5 ton heavier variant of the Locust with the option to equip ECM and jump jets wouldn't be better?

The only part you should really care about is JJs, ECM on a 25 ton IS mech is just asking to be gimped in some fashion. The only IS mech that can carry an appreciable weapons load and have decent DPS while also running ECM and JJs is pretty much 35 tonners (aka super sized lights). Not to mention ECM generally means less quirks, and quirks are > ECM.

[Bombast]

Surprised the Penetrator didn't make it. Torso lasers are fairly high up (Though not shoulder mounted) and the arm lasers are cockpit level. And it's chicken legged, so probably a squat mech. A pretty good laser spam chassis. Doubly surprised because the Flashman and Falconer made it, both of which have atrocious chassis.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

Surprised the Penetrator didn't make it. Torso lasers are fairly high up (Though not shoulder mounted) and the arm lasers are cockpit level. And it's chicken legged, so probably a squat mech. A pretty good laser spam chassis. Doubly surprised because the Flashman and Falconer made it, both of which have atrocious chassis.

The Penetrator would have terrible hitboxes (bricks and iXLs do not go together) while the Flashman being humanoid would be XL safe just like the BK is.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 January 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

The Penetrator would have terrible hitboxes (bricks and iXLs do not go together) while the Flashman being humanoid would be XL safe just like the BK is.

End of the day, I have to defer to you and the other big names listed in the OP, but it just seems like, to me, the Flashman's harder to isolate side torsos are canceled out by low hard points and being freak'n huge.

And the Falconer is in knuckle dragger territory.

Though I suppose being able to block shot to your arms with your legs in a novel strategy that may be useful.

Edited by Bombast, 31 January 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 January 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

The Penetrator would have terrible hitboxes (bricks and iXLs do not go together) while the Flashman being humanoid would be XL safe just like the BK is.

not to mention that the Flashman need many "round" bodyparts to be a Flashman - and round is better because of AVS*)

however like the Falconer the Penetrator (can we use the German name - like it better) they are chicken walker (the Falconer will become a chicken walker considering the treatment of the Stalker) and again chicken walker are again great because of AVS*)

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AVS - After Volumetric Scaling