262 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

Heavy and Assault votes are depressing. And the Onslaught should have never been on the list anyways.

Interesting, which heavies and assaults did you want to see winning?

[Y E O N N E]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

And the Onslaught should have never been on the list anyways.

No, the Flashman and Jinngau shouldn't have been on the list.

[Acehilator]

TheArisen, on 22 February 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

Interesting, which heavies and assaults did you want to see winning?

For heavies, Jinggau as a personal favourite, but too many 65t in the lineup already, so that wasn't going to happen from the start (f*** the Roughneck). Aside from that, pretty much every mech on the list apart from the three in the lead

For assaults, Nightstar as a personal favourite. Cerberus alternate, rest of the mechs are garbage.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2017 - 06:46 AM, said:

No, the Flashman and Jinngau shouldn't have been on the list.

Both of you guys really ought to elaborate.

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 22 February 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

Both of you guys really ought to elaborate.

I did. Both in the PMs and in this thread. =/

[TheArisen]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

For heavies, Jinggau as a personal favourite, but too many 65t in the lineup already, so that wasn't going to happen from the start (f*** the Roughneck). Aside from that, pretty much every mech on the list apart from the three in the lead

For assaults, Nightstar as a personal favourite. Cerberus alternate, rest of the mechs are garbage.

The Jinggau also has wide arms and only arm mounted weapons but I like the idea of it's ecm+masc variant.

Could I get you to explain why the Sagittarius and Fafnir are trash?

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

I did. Both in the PMs and in this thread. =/

Right but people tend to be lazy and not read earlier stuff.

I don't think it's fair to kick the Flashman off just because it doesn't bring anything new gameplay wise. However the new pts is gonna detach engine size and mobility so the Fman could be even less interesting.

[Acehilator]

TheArisen, on 22 February 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

The Jinggau also has wide arms and only arm mounted weapons but I like the idea of it's ecm+masc variant.

Could I get you to explain why the Sagittarius and Fafnir are trash?

Can't cram enough heatsinks into the Sagittarius to take advantage of all those E hardpoints.

I guess most people are voting for the Fafnir because of it's Heavy Gauss, I don't see PGI being able to implement that weapon even remotely balanced.

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 22 February 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Right but people tend to be lazy and not read earlier stuff.

Not really our problem. Trying to recursively accommmodate lazy and/or disinterested parties is how we wasted bits posting about Lights which ultimately don't contribute anything at all.

Quote

I don't think it's fair to kick the Flashman off just because it doesn't bring anything new gameplay wise. However the new pts is gonna detach engine size and mobility so the Fman could be even less interesting.

I do, because the thing it brings isn't good enough. If the point if this thread's suggestions is to powercreep the IS up, and laser vomit isn't potent enough to notice a difference (and it isn't, not with the GHR and WHM around), then the laser vomit 'Mech should be removed. IS need ballistics or energy-ballistics, specifically they need what the Falconer, Toyama, and Onslaught can offer to compete with the TBR and NTG.

[Y E O N N E]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Can't cram enough heatsinks into the Sagittarius to take advantage of all those E hardpoints.

People don't want it for all those Energy hardpoints, they want it because one variant can do 2xGauss safely in the arms with 2xPPC to match the FLD power of the KDK-3. It also happens to have excellent mounts, excellent frontal profile, and shielding arms.

[Acehilator]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

People don't want it for all those Energy hardpoints, they want it because one variant can do 2xGauss safely in the arms with 2xPPC to match the FLD power of the KDK-3. It also happens to have excellent mounts, excellent frontal profile, and shielding arms.

Nightstar can do essentially the same? Nighstar mount heigths are the same or better, excellent frontal profile for Sagittaire is highly debateable imho (giant CT problem), shield arms yes (if the fins make it into Alex' concept), cockpit too low.

Overall, much of the Sagittaires projected performance depends on Alex' rendition and the model. On the other hand there is almost no chance that the Nightstar will have problems in that regard.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Nighstar mount heigths are the same or better

They are wider which is a problem and the reason we chose the Sagittaire over the Night Star. There is a reason people hate the arm mounts on the King Crab and Ebon Jag, and it is because wide mounts suck.

[Acehilator]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

They are wider which is a problem and the reason we chose the Sagittaire over the Night Star. There is a reason people hate the arm mounts on the King Crab and Ebon Jag, and it is because wide mounts suck.

Considering how wide the Sagittaire's body is where the arms are mounted, I think the difference is less than you would hope. And low mounted cockpits suck even harder, imho.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

And low mounted cockpits suck even harder, imho.

Not as much as wide hardpoints, the Stalker doesn't have the highest cockpit positioning either and it is still considered strong, same with the Marauder IIC.

[Acehilator]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Not as much as wide hardpoints, the Stalker doesn't have the highest cockpit positioning either and it is still considered strong, same with the Marauder IIC.

Stalker has a low cockpit and is considered strong? Dafuq? For the Marauder IIC, doesn't really matter, because you need your low slung arm weapons anyways and need to step out of cover accordingly.

At least the Sagittaire is better than the Fafnir, lol.

[Y E O N N E]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Nightstar can do essentially the same? Nighstar mount heigths are the same or better, excellent frontal profile for Sagittaire is highly debateable imho (giant CT problem), shield arms yes (if the fins make it into Alex' concept), cockpit too low.

Overall, much of the Sagittaires projected performance depends on Alex' rendition and the model. On the other hand there is almost no chance that the Nightstar will have problems in that regard.

The Sagittaire will have one Gauss and two PPCs clustered pretty tightly on one side no matter the rendition. The Night Star will not have this, no matter the rendition. That alone makes the Saggy preferable.

Cockpit is not at all too low. It is par for the course.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Acehilator, on 22 February 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

At least the Sagittaire is better than the Fafnir, lol.

How is it better than a 'mech with torso ballistics at cockpit height and amazing shield arms?

[TheArisen]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Not as much as wide hardpoints, the Stalker doesn't have the highest cockpit positioning either and it is still considered strong, same with the Marauder IIC.

I'm not sure the Stalker could be considered to have a low cockpit however if the cockpit on the Sagittarius is like Shimmering's artwork it wouldn't be low but I do agree the width of the Nightstar is a bit bloated. Not to mention without Alex's artwork all we can get is an educated guess. The Sagittarius could have a great cockpit or the Nightstar may not be nearly as wide as some think, etc. The Nightstar does have it's big engine variant which aside from speed and for the time being agility also helps fit more dhs.

Jay Leon Hart, on 22 February 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

How is it better than a 'mech with torso ballistics at cockpit height and amazing shield arms?

Well torso gauss is a bad idea but the Fafnir's 6U variant puts the ballistics in the arms.

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

The Sagittaire will have one Gauss and two PPCs clustered pretty tightly on one side no matter the rendition. The Night Star will not have this, no matter the rendition. That alone makes the Saggy preferable.

Cockpit is not at all too low. It is par for the course.

You're mistaken about the Nightstar. It has energy mounts in each arm as well as the RT. The JJ variant has leg E hardpounts which will almost certainly be put in the STs. So the Nightstar can cluster gauss & ppc just as well as the Sagittarius.

[Y E O N N E]

TheArisen, on 22 February 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

You're mistaken about the Nightstar. It has energy mounts in each arm as well as the RT. The JJ variant has leg E hardpounts which will almost certainly be put in the STs. So the Nightstar can cluster gauss & ppc just as well as the Sagittarius.

I am not mistaken . You do not have the slots to run Gauss and two, possibly even one pending LAA, PPCs in one arm and there is considerable distance between the arm and torso mounts that isn't there on the Saggy.

I know you love the Night Star, I like it, too, but it is simply not as capable as the Saggy.

[TheArisen]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 February 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

I am not mistaken . You do not have the slots to run Gauss and two, possibly even one pending LAA, PPCs in one arm and there is considerable distance between the arm and torso mounts that isn't there on the Saggy.

I know you love the Night Star, I like it, too, but it is simply not as capable as the Saggy.

Well the JJ variant (9SS) doesn't have LAA as it comes with a uac20 & lbx20. Also with typical inflation the RT could have 2 or 3 energy slots.

I still think the differences between these two are so minor as to not be able to say which is stronger. It's splitting hairs at best. And what if Alex draws the Nightstar and it's arms aren't as wide as you fear? Or what if Alex's Saggy has a low cockpit or turns out wider than you think? There's quite a few unknowns that can only truly be solved by Alex & the 3D modelers.

Edited by TheArisen, 22 February 2017 - 10:52 AM.