52 replies to this topic

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

I decided to configure a Dire Wolf S thusly:

- 4 ER Large Lasers
- 1 UAC5
- 1 LRM 20 + Artimus IV
- 2 Machine Guns


It seems to do okayyyyyy as a sniper mech but overall I just don't seem to be hitting as hard as I should.

Any thoughts?

[MechWarrior414712]

Depends if you want to have fun or be effective.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

I O O percent KongLord, on 19 November 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Depends if you want to have fun or be effective.

Yes, I do.

[Kuaron]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 19 November 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Yes, I do.

In this case you could try a less worst build.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

How about a more better one?

[Wintersdark]

Kuaron, on 19 November 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

In this case you could try a less worst build.

This, but to be more clear:

Pick a range band and go with it. Don't put machine guns on a mech at all, really; there are some circumstances when you may as well but a Direwolf, just don't.

A problem you're going to run into here is that ERLL's have huge long burn times, and you can only fire 2 at a time or you suffer ghost heat. So this means you're firing 2, then two more, THEN you can fire the UAC5 (because lasers are hitscan weapons and hit exactly what you're pointing at instantly, while UAC5's have projectiles and travel time, so if your target is moving anywhere other than directly towards/away from you, you're not hitting with lasers and UAC at the same time. At least, not where you want.

Generally speaking, ERLL's aren't very good weapons due to that burn duration. Your target can simply twist/move and you're spreading damage all over them, while still labouring under high heat and tight ghost heat limits (2). It also tends to make them extremely ineffective against anything that gets close to you, because it becomes very hard to keep your beams on them for the full duration.

[Wintersdark]

For example, the classic dual PPC/Dual Gauss DWF is a competent sniper, as it can throw 50 (ignoring splash) damage downrange in an instant (read: pinpoint front loaded damage). Or, a multi-UAC5/10 DWF can deal crushing damage over time at good range - generally enough to force people to disengage or die.

Generally, though, you're going to have to pick between being autocannon based or laser based, as the two don't mix terribly well under a lot of circumstances - though this matters much less at close range where projectile travel times are very short.

Gauss is an exception, as the projectile is so fast and fires infrequently (and at essentially zero heat) so it can be combined effectively with pretty much anything.

[Rattler85]

My Dire Wolf-A runs 3erLL, a UAC-10 or GR, 2 LRM-15s and AMS.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

Well...

The idea was to use the ER Large Lasers as snipers. The LRM 20 is of course for indirect fire support, and the MGs were for when lights got up close to me.

Originally I had a Targeting Computer 7, but I ditched it and put the UAC 5 on in its place.

My weapon groupings are:
1: ER Large Lasers (chain fire!)
2: UAC5 + Machine Guns
3: LRM 20

I only have a basic mouse so I can't realistically do more than 3 weapon groups.

[Wintersdark]

A couple machine guns isn't going to scare any lights away; they're relatively harmless.

Chainfiring 4 ERLL's is horrible; it requires 100% face time (that is, you're staring right at who you're firing at non-stop) AND very clearly shows your position to the opposing force with those bright blue beams. This results in the rest of the team pushing your face in while you do mediocre damage at long range.

Generally speaking, you don't want to chainfire pretty much anything. That doesn't mean you should always alpha, but firing two groups of two ERLL is vastly superior to chainfiring the 4. You can fire one group, then the next after 0.5s (but while the first is still firing) and not generate Ghost Heat. This applies to the vast majority of weapons and situations.

If you've a hard cap of 3 weapon groups for whatever reason, that's fine, but take fewer different types of weapons, rather than make really weird groups that don't work terribly well.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 19 November 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well...

The idea was to use the ER Large Lasers as snipers. The LRM 20 is of course for indirect fire support, and the MGs were for when lights got up close to me.

Originally I had a Targeting Computer 7, but I ditched it and put the UAC 5 on in its place.

My weapon groupings are:
1: ER Large Lasers (chain fire!)
2: UAC5 + Machine Guns
3: LRM 20

I only have a basic mouse so I can't realistically do more than 3 weapon groups.

While you can get away with something like that in the bracket you fight in currently, as you move up, you will notice one glaring problem with your mech...

You literally paint a big red arrow pointing at your mech for every enemy light mech too see... All of your weapon systems (and how you chain fire your erLL) combined with your slow agility profile act like a homing beacon for light mechs. You are basically defenseless to their onslaught, and they will come for you!

Basically, everything wintersdark said is spot on.

[Kuaron]

Wintersdark, on 19 November 2016 - 11:22 PM, said:

Chainfiring 4 ERLL's is horrible; it requires 100% face time (that is, you're staring right at who you're firing at non-stop) AND very clearly shows your position to the opposing force with those bright blue beams. This results in the rest of the team pushing your face in while you do mediocre damage at long range.

You could doubletap each shot to fire two at a time using only one button.

[Wintersdark]

Kuaron, on 20 November 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

You could doubletap each shot to fire two at a time using only one button.

You can, but that's really easy to screw up. Accidentally fire 3 with <0.5s breaks and you eat a lot of extra heat. Also, you don't have control of which lasers are firing - if you've got two in each arm, for example, then you can use LMB for the left arm pair, and RMB for right arm pair, so you can fire just the pair you're peeking with. Of course, if you've got all 4 in one arm, then that doesn't matter so much.

Not to mention how much it lures you into just firing them in regular chainfire for one continuous beam, but that's a terrible, terrible thing that you should never ever do.

Edited by Wintersdark, 20 November 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Kuaron]

Of course you could also buy a gaming mouse or avoid playing certain builds, but the first one costs money and the second one limits your gaming options, so I wouldn’t judge anyone for seeking another solution.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

So...should I just drop the lasers and go with....what?

In other news, I bought a Dire Wolf B, and decided that I would put 3 UAC20s on it.

God...it was...it was...horrible...


Sigh.

Wintersdark, on 20 November 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not to mention how much it lures you into just firing them in regular chainfire for one continuous beam, but that's a terrible, terrible thing that you should never ever do.

I do this all the time...

...what? Stop staring at me. I suck, I get it.

[Wintersdark]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 20 November 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

So...should I just drop the lasers and go with....what?

In other news, I bought a Dire Wolf B, and decided that I would put 3 UAC20s on it.

Yeah, the UAC20 is a mediocre weapon to start with, running 3 has several flaws: Your whole loadout requires close range, in a slow, ponderous mech; it's very easy to fire two within .5s of each other, incurring huge ghost heat; firing them even without ghost heat is *hot*.

If you want to run lots of 20-class autocannons, run 2xLBX20 or something of the sort, which is cooler, has no face time, and kicks like a mule.

IMHO, your best options for easy usage with DWF's are:

Note, these are not meta builds, but rather "easy and reasonably effective at low to mid tier" builds. Thrown together quickly as an example and not intended to show optimized versions; of course, move armor forwards, don't have that much on the rear, I'm just lazy.

1) 2LPL and 2Gauss. I like DWF-PRIME for this, as the ERSL's help to dissuade lights and push up your close range burst at minimal heat.
2) Lots and lots of 5-class autocannons. 6xLBX5 isn't a killer meta build, but it's a TON of fun to play. Hailstorm makes me giggle.
3) Dual Gauss and Dual ERPPC. Obviously.
4) Somewhat too hot, and very short ranged, but hilariously fun: DWF-W
5) Of course, 2xUAC5 and 2xUAC10 works very well; see: Kodiak. While you'd normally go largely pure UAC/ammo in the KDK, the DWF is slower and more ponderous, thus more prone to be overrun by silly lights and whatnot. In that case, I like this: DWF-PRIME for having a very effective close in burn with it's 6 ERSL's. But, to each their own.



Bonus points: My favourite DWF build is this - Siegebreaker for when you simply need a 114 point alpha. To run with just 3 weapon groups, 2xGauss in group 1, 4xERML in group 2, UAC20+SRM's in group 3. Use everything when you need to make something Go Away Now at close range, gauss+erml at longer ranges, gauss+UAC20/SRM up close when hot. It's not as crazy as it once was, but it's still surprising for people to have a mech dump 114 points of damage in their face over the burn duration of the ERML's.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

Well, the B I modified to have 2 UAC20, because 3 chewed through my ammo and then I was...well, not able to fire anything.

It now has 3 ER Medium Lasers and an ERPPC to support the 2 UAC 20.


Eh. Whatever. I'll "master" the chassis and move on to like a Thor, or maybe a Summoner.

[Kuaron]

Puppy Monkey Baby, on 20 November 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Eh. Whatever. I'll "master" the chassis and move on to like a Thor, or maybe a Summoner.

You'll have a hard decision between a Thor and a Summoner then. They are very different, or maybe similar.

The DWF you describe sounds quite hot. With 3 ERLL you'd either need something more heat-efficient than a PPC or tons of DHS. Especially if you are firing the UAC20s with ghost heat from time to time.
With dual UAC10 or dual LB20X one has at least not to worry about ghost heat.

[Puppy Monkey Baby]

The lasers are in fact Medium, not Large.

I dropped the ER PPC altogether and swapped one of the UAC 20s for an LB20X. This "ghost heat" mechanic seems to be mitigated this way, but I no longer have any kind of long range offense with it.

Interesting times.

[cleghorn6]

You're better off going "all in" on a play style. If you want to play ranged, pick LRMs and probably AC5s/UAC5s (as shown above, lasers are bad at this). If you want to play brawly, stick to your UAC20s and add LPL or MPL. Trying to have a little of everything means you're not as good at anything as you could be.

Can you be countered pretty hard? Yes. Absolutely. If you get a light stuck to you in your ranged build, you are going to die unless you get help. If someone wants to poke you to death in your brawly build, they probably can. In both those cases though, you've positioned yourself wrong. Too far from your team in the first case, too far from cover in the second. This is the lesson you need to learn from those failures. Learn the play style, get better at it. Eventually those things won't kill you any more and you will start being more effective in that you actually get to use your weapons on the enemy for most of the match.

Assaults are a hard class to play. Heavies and Mediums are far more forgiving. The secret to playing well in an Assault is positioning. You can't get out of trouble on your own, too slow. You can't catch up with a push, if it goes without you, prepare to be the last man standing. It won't take long. You have to be in the right place at the right time. This takes experience.

All that being said, this is the DWF build I have most fun in. I saw someone on a random MWO stream running it and decided to recreate it. -S side torsos for jump turning/getting un-stuck. LBX mostly for the noise they make. LPL to attract attention. Your role in this 'mech is to wait until the battle is joined, then you wade in on one flank and start ruining people's day. If they have an open component, hit it with the LBX. Gone. If they have a damaged component, open it up with the LPL, then hit it with the LBX. Rinse. Repeat. The story you want to enemy to be telling themselves after the match is "Suddenly, Dire Wolf".

Fun. Effective.