61 replies to this topic

[Agent1190]

My unit mates and I were chatting about this the other night on our TS server - there's a LOT of potential new tech that could be introduced into the game if they jump the year to 3068. Realistically, 90% of that new tech will not make it into the game. I don't have any hard data to back up my theories, just history and patterns from PGI.

New IS Tech I can reasonably expect to see this summer:
ER Small Lasers
ER Medium Lasers
UAC 2/10/20
Streak 4/6
LB 2/5/20 x
Light AC/2
Light AC/5
Heavy Machine Guns
Light PPC
MRM's (long shot)
Rotary ACs (long shot)

These weapons would require the least amount of work to introduce into the game, and therefore require the least amount of work to tweak for "balance." MRMs and Roary ACs would require new coding and thus be more difficult to put into the game, and then to figure out balance. While I hope PGI accepts the challenge, I won't hold my breath.

I think the Light AC/2 and Light AC/5 would be excellent additions for lights that are stuck in the Laser-vomit or SRM-vomit mold. Same with the Light PPC.

New Clan Tech I can reasonably expect to see this summer:
ER Small Pulse Lasers
ER Medium Pulse Lasers
ER Large Pulse Lasers (just give them the original range of the standard Large Pulse Laser, just with more heat or weight)
ATM 3/6/9/12 (sadly without swap-able munitions)
Streak LRM 5/10/15/20 (let the tears flow if this happens)

There seemed to be more new weapons-tech from inner Sphere sources than Clan in 3068. That's why I included the Streak LRMs on the list - clanners will want something big to compensate. They seem to have balance built in - straight line of sight for targeting info, 2x weight of regular LRMs.

I don't expect to see new armor types in game, and my hopes for a Light Fusion Engine are slowly waning.

Edited by Agent1190, 31 January 2017 - 07:24 AM.

[FupDup]

How exactly is PGI going to differentiate Streak LRMs from normal LRMs? What benefit will they provide for their extra weight? The TT version of Streak targeting is kind of hard to translate to a game where you don't make a dice roll to target your weapon (Streaks in TT simply don't fire if your targeting roll fails).

[Hit the Deck]

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
I don't expect to see new armor types in game, and my hopes for a Light Fusion Engine are slowly waning.

Technically, implementing LFE will take very minimal amount of work.

[Bombast]

Cuz I'm a *****...

https://mwomercs.com...e-most-desired/

https://mwomercs.com...s-experimental/

https://mwomercs.com...and-non-weapon/

I actually think Light Autocannons are a long shot. Not because their not good - Arguably the biggest game changer tech that could come out, even more than LFEs. But I don't think it's fancy enough for PGI to include - I think we're going to get the finished IS SSRM, Ultra, ER and LB-X lines, and then some token new tech (Probably MRMs for Inner Sphere).

LACs are what I'd like most though.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

I don't have any hard data to back up my theories, just history and patterns from PGI.

right.........................

anyways the things I think they are going to start with is the items that would seem to imitate clan weaponry first, purely from a balance standpoint.

I think the major reasoning for this is that the IS have the most potential to increase while the clans come up with some nifty stuff the IS at least have a better mirrored power structure to build from.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 31 January 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[Agent1190]

FupDup, on 31 January 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

How exactly is PGI going to differentiate Streak LRMs from normal LRMs? What benefit will they provide for their extra weight? The TT version of Streak targeting is kind of hard to translate to a game where you don't make a dice roll to target your weapon (Streaks in TT simply don't fire if your targeting roll fails).

1. Flat trajectory (no arc like LRMs)
2. Streaming fire (makes it harder to use close range)
3. Line of sight weapon (you have to see it to hit it)
4. 2x weight of normal LRMs (harder to boat)
5. Ammo per ton (100 vs 180)
6. 1 damage per missile instead of 2

BLOOD WOLF, on 31 January 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

right.........................

anyways the things I think they are going to start with is the items that would seem to imitate clan weaponry first, purely from a balance standpoint.

I think the major reasoning for this is that the IS have the most potential to increase while the clans come up with some nifty stuff the IS at least have a better mirrored power structure to build from.

That's why I listed those weapons first. The first 5 items on my IS list SHOULD make it into the game.

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

I actually think Light Autocannons are a long shot. Not because their not good - Arguably the biggest game changer tech that could come out, even more than LFEs. But I don't think it's fancy enough for PGI to include - I think we're going to get the finished IS SSRM, Ultra, ER and LB-X lines, and then some token new tech (Probably MRMs for Inner Sphere).

LACs are what I'd like most though.

I agree - and I think they have a decent chance to make it into the game because it would be easy to program. They just need to take the existing weapon and make some numbers changes.

I know there are other threads about this, but I was shooting for "reasonable and realistic." This isn't my wish list - it's what I expect to see based on ease of introduction and balance. I don't expect PGI to invest a ton of time into brand new code to introduce a weapon that is completely different from anything we see in game, nor do I want to see tech that will be tweaked for a year after introduction because "balance." These weapons are an "easy way out" to add more tech and depth without demanding a lot of time.

Hit the Deck, on 31 January 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

Technically, implementing LFE will take very minimal amount of work.

I would LOVE to see LFEs int he game, but PGI refuses to acknowledge the subject. This either means its totally off the table (they are afraid of invalidating the STD engine) OR they will introduce it and they want it to be a huge "SURPRISE" moment. I am still not going to hold my breath...

Edited by Agent1190, 31 January 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 31 January 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

How exactly is PGI going to differentiate Streak LRMs from normal LRMs? What benefit will they provide for their extra weight? The TT version of Streak targeting is kind of hard to translate to a game where you don't make a dice roll to target your weapon (Streaks in TT simply don't fire if your targeting roll fails).

I advise that they rather don't include yet, weapons that would have the hardest to translate into this game. Like I said above best to work with weapons that have similar functions.

[LordMelvin]

FupDup, on 31 January 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

How exactly is PGI going to differentiate Streak LRMs from normal LRMs? What benefit will they provide for their extra weight? The TT version of Streak targeting is kind of hard to translate to a game where you don't make a dice roll to target your weapon (Streaks in TT simply don't fire if your targeting roll fails).

Maybe Streak LRMs could get a flatter trajectory, faster speed, slightly worse tracking, slighter tighter spread, and ripple fire (like MWLL's LRMs). Then you could choose between a better direct fire weapon vs normal LRMs which would be more like artillery (high arc, relatively slow, moderate spread, etc).

I think just translating them as a copy of normal LRMs that only fire with a guaranteed lock would be boring.

[Bud Crue]

I think it "reasonable" to expect new weapons that don't require much if any graphical changes to the mech models. Various lasers and missiles will be first. Nothing else at least in the short run. ACs and Gauss variations will come later once they get the designs properly done and interfaced with the exiting models. That seems reasonable.

[Agent1190]

Bud Crue, on 31 January 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

I think it "reasonable" to expect new weapons that don't require much if any graphical changes to the mech models. Various lasers and missiles will be first. Nothing else at least in the short run. ACs and Gauss variations will come later once they get the designs properly done and interfaced with the exiting models. That seems reasonable.

Agreed. Again, "reasonable" and "easy" were my 2 main conditions for this list. It would be easy to take the existing medium laser, change the name to "ER Medium Laser," copy/paste the existing stats for the medium laser then tweak them, and there you have it - new weapon. Easy to do, and reasonable to expect.

MRMs would be SRMs with longer range. Again, copy the info for the existing weapon, change a few numbers, maybe tweak damage and/or launch (streaming instead of bulk fire), and change the name to "MRM." Easy. Streak LRMs would require more stat changes (considering firing arc), but not outside the realm of "reasonable" because the mechanics are already in the game, the numbers just need to be adjusted.

The only 2 new-not-in-game-for-either-side AC-class weapons on the list were light 2's and 5's, which might require a new model just for aesthetic reasons. Missile models wouldn't change except for number of visible tubes, but that doesn't have to be graphically different from what we have now, just more "nubs." The only thing PGI might worry about is ease-of-boating these lighter weapons.

Expecting Gauss variations and Rotary ACs is unreasonable - there's so much angst about the current gauss model that PGI would be insane to introduce a new variant. Rotary ACs have heat and jamming mechanisms that would lead to more balance/performance tweaks after release - hell, they are STILL tweaking UACs to this day.

Edited by Agent1190, 31 January 2017 - 08:06 AM.

[BoldricKent]

Reflective and Reactive armor, its interesting that a tech that can really impact TTK is getting under
radar all the time.And both are IS in its origin. 50 % better protection against selective type of damage
could really shift things.

[Agent1190]

BoldricKent, on 31 January 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Reflective and Reactive armor, its interesting that a tech that can really impact TTK is getting under
radar all the time.And both are IS in its origin. 50 % better protection against selective type of damage
could really shift things.

Already in the game - see "lag shield" and "hit reg" for more info.

Edited by Agent1190, 31 January 2017 - 08:07 AM.

[Mole]

I wonder how many of my Inner Sphere medium laser boats are going to swap their current medium lasers for ER Medium Lasers when they come out.

[FupDup]

Agent1190, on 31 January 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

1. Flat trajectory (no arc like LRMs)
2. Streaming fire (makes it harder to use close range)
3. Line of sight weapon (you have to see it to hit it)
4. 2x weight of normal LRMs (harder to boat)
5. Ammo per ton (100 vs 180)
6. 1 damage per missile instead of 2

So, Streak LRMs would be literally inferior to regular LRMs in nearly every single way?

[Bombast]

Mole, on 31 January 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

I wonder how many of my Inner Sphere medium laser boats are going to swap their current medium lasers for ER Medium Lasers when they come out.

Not many, I'd assume. My guess is that the Medium Laser will survive in MWO for the same reason it survived in the TT - Being essentially the perfect blend of damage, heat, tonnage and range.

Best guess, ERMLs will show up mostly in chassis that use MLs and MPLs as back up weapons, where increased heat doesn't matter much because you don't fire them that often.

Edited by Bombast, 31 January 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[BoldricKent]

Well almost, the main advantage is 100% hit (full damage). So you need less ammo, less things that
can explode, less crit slots. Lrms dont do 2 damage, SRM does, and short ATM will do 3 per missile.

[CK16]

I don't see MRMs being a long shot, they are super common on future desgins. Imo if a weapon is common on most varriants then expect it to be added.

RAC's maybe are tough but I suspect they will be added. I wouldnt call either a long shot. A long shot is like Arrow IV missiles or Longtom haha.

[Mole]

Bombast, on 31 January 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

Not many, I'd assume. My guess is that the Medium Laser will survive in MWO for the same reason it survived in the TT - Being essentially the perfect blend of damage, heat, tonnage and range.

Best guess, ERMLs will show up mostly in chassis that use MLs and MPLs as back up weapons, where increased heat doesn't matter much because you don't fire them that often.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. Assuming they have anywhere near the same kind of heat buildup as Clan ERMLs then 6 of them is going to he hella hot on pretty much anything the IS can field with their 3 slot DHS.

Edited by Mole, 31 January 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 31 January 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I don't see MRMs being a long shot, they are super common on future desgins. Imo if a weapon is common on most varriants then expect it to be added.

RAC's maybe are tough but I suspect they will be added. I wouldnt call either a long shot. A long shot is like Arrow IV missiles or Longtom haha.

Was the pun there intentional CK?

[darqsyde]

MRMs should be dead simple to implement, since they are basically just longer range versions of SRMs, with a larger spread.