154 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tristan Winter, on 01 February 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

I haven't done a statistical study, but if you look at all the major ones, they typically add complexity. At level 1, you're just pointing and clicking at animals in the forest, killing 8 wolves and 4 chickens to complete a quest. At level 60, you've got 8-10 skills (or more) that you've carefully put together in your skill tree, and you'll use most of them with relatively frequency.

Now, I don't want to go down a long and hard neckbeard discussion about to what extent WoW, TOR, Guild Wars have true complexity, but anyone who doesn't recognize that they have a gradual progression of complexity from level 1 to level 60 that is very much unlike the skill tree in MWO... you're being silly.

Of course those aren't analogous, because the skills have a very different role compared to this game.

Skill trees in RPGs are more like tech trees in this one. For example only having access to standard ACs, MGs, LRMs, SRMs, standard Lasers, and the sole PPC at the beginning and slowly unlocking newer tech is more analogous to skill trees in RPGs than any skill tree expected for this game. I would also say more often than not those skills slowly get power creeped as you level up, which doesn't make for a very good PvP only game (this is something that isn't really comparable between the two as well, unless talking the PvP version of Guild Wars).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 February 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 February 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

That means PTS going up this weekend, right?

That would be the smart thing to do. They can use most of the month to tweak it and hopefully get it on live sooner. But knowing them they'll drop it somewhere in the middle of the month. Tweak it maybe once. And then roll it live, unless everyone starts diaper filling. Which is always a possibility with these forums.

[Deathlike]

Realistically, they'll delay it... because PGI (both test implementation and release).

Also, the side talk about "faction quirks" is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. I get it would be nice to have a bonus being in a faction... but if it affects actual performance of a mech... wild imbalances could happen (or just lol wat changes).

[Davegt27]

just like the election the world is not coming to an end

skill tree wont be a big deal

[Piney II]

Davegt27, on 01 February 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

just like the election the world is not coming to an end

skill tree wont be a big deal

Agree. Those that want to continue playing will, those that want to QQ and rage can quit.............and / or spew venom all over this forum.

It is what it is.

Edited by Piney, 01 February 2017 - 05:33 PM.

[Evil Goof]

Tristan Winter, on 01 February 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

I have two concernes and they're connected.

1 - It won't really promote role warfare. That was basically the point of separate skill trees as sketched out in 2011, 2012. (Five years ago. Heh.)

2 - It won't really add any complexity or fun to the game.

At the end of the day, I think this is just going to be like modules.
Take some mech with ER PPC and gauss. If possible, level up to get speed tweak, radar derp and advanced zoom or whatever good skills are easily accessible. Add weapon skills to make your shooty guns shootier. Congratulations, your mech now... basically the same as always, but shootier.

In other games, like Star Conflict and most MMORPGs, levelling up actually means that you're adding complexity to the gameplay. Levelling up isn't just a grind to get gooder, it's actually a pedagogical tool to teach the player how to play, one step at a time. It's not necessarily a progression to becoming more powerful either. You may just unlock new abilities that come with certain costs, like trading burst damage for extended dps or whatever. But usually, levelling up means that you're getting more powerful while also enjoying more complex gameplay. An example of this would be letting scout mechs target multiple enemies at the same time or giving support mechs a crouch toggle or giving jump jet brawlers additional controls to use their jump jets (e.g. side-strafing)

My concern is that this will be a minimally viable product. Spend C-bills and XP to unlock a 1% gauss rifle range bonus. Dull. On top of that, we might get some rampant power creep, but whatever.

I have a couple of concerns.

First I don't like the idea that I will have to grind two Raven 3L's. One for erll, and one for narcing. Since they have made it clear we will need to pay to respec I am even more pissed that I can't just have one 3L and quickly switch between two set ups.

Second, which sort of is a continuation of my first issue is that now I will just buy two Raven 3L's and there is no reason for me to get any of the other variants. Especially 2X and 4X....

My final issue is that I think this gives PGI an inroad to sell all mechs a la carte which I am willing to bet is more expensive and has less value (to me anyways) than the current system of my at least buying three.

[Scout Derek]

Piney, on 01 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

Agree. Those that want to continue playing will, those that want to QQ and rage can quit.............and / or spew venom all over this forum.

It is what it is.

I for one welcome it, even if it means some of my mechs getting debuffed because of it. Means I can make my mech how I want it.

[Davegt27]

yeah lets get it done already so PGI can move on to neat stuff like enhanced imaging

[Scout Derek]

Davegt27, on 01 February 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

yeah lets get it done already so PGI can move on to neat stuff like enhanced imaging

How about them RACs. Love me some RACs for IS. or how about some IS UACs?

[DrxAbstract]

Orbit Rain, on 01 February 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'm looking forward to it because it'll let newer people get a greater variety of mechs into a competitive state.

While simultaneously putting them at a much greater initial disadvantage than the handful of otherwise insignificant percentages from the existing trees do, and potentially (likely) requiring the same amount of "grind time" to Maser individual Mechs.

Removing the multi-variant purchase cost and Mech Bay space requirements though... Hurray!

[cazidin]

Scout Derek, on 01 February 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

I for one welcome it, even if it means some of my mechs getting debuffed because of it. Means I can make my mech how I want it.

At the same time, knowing PGI, this probably means that whenever a balance issue comes up they can easily say "just focus on X skill instead".

[Scout Derek]

cazidin, on 01 February 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

At the same time, knowing PGI, this probably means that whenever a balance issue comes up they can easily say "just focus on X skill instead".

We will probably see nerfs to the part of the tree that involves armor and structure quirks.

lol

[Gas Guzzler]

The more I think about it the more I wish they would just change pinpoint to a -5% duration/+5% projectile/missile velocity skill and call it good. Probably far too late for that, but I'm just super worried a lot of the mechs I enjoy playing right now (not even talking about the top tier ones which ironically will be okay) are going to be much less pleasant to play.

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

The more I think about it the more I wish they would just change pinpoint to a -5% duration/+5% projectile/missile velocity skill and call it good. Probably far too late for that, but I'm just super worried a lot of the mechs I enjoy playing right now (not even talking about the top tier ones which ironically will be okay) are going to be much less pleasant to play.

most definitely going to take a dip for some of the more quirked ones. per say warhammer, or the Atlas.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

I'm just super worried a lot of the mechs I enjoy playing right now (not even talking about the top tier ones which ironically will be okay) are going to be much less pleasant to play.

Muh Mist Lynx...

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 February 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Muh Mist Lynx...

First they take away your UAC jam chance reduction, now they'll take away your speed tweak and heat cap

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 01 February 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[Beaching Betty]

I dont know a single crap on whats included in the skill tree so Ill just pick whatever looks ok for the specific mech Im using

[KinLuu]

I for one am hoarding about a million XP on my Timber Wolf Prime. All of which will be going into ERPPC, Gauss and Mobility skills.

I AM PREPARED.

[MrMadguy]

RestosIII, on 01 February 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

I'm going to see how expensive Advanced Zoom is first of all. I've always been triggered by the fact that it isn't a base option for mechs. After that though? Max structure for every mech I own.

Same here. I'm not dedicated sniper. But, I guess, I have bad aiming skill, so I need Adv Zoom on ALL my 'Mechs in order to compensate this problem. So, if Adv Zoom will be gated behind some useless snipe/scout skills, then... I don't even know, what I will do.

Gas Guzzler, on 01 February 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

I'm worried assaults won't be able to get speed tweak skills anymore.

Then this - basic skills, that are mandatory for some 'Mechs to be even playable.

Edited by MrMadguy, 02 February 2017 - 12:52 AM.

[Lupis Volk]

I'll reserve judgement till it's out.

I wait with baited breath.