33 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

Never mind.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2017 - 08:26 PM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

If you ask me, people should just do whatever works best for them or what they are comfortable with.

[Karl Marlow]

LRM s are weird. They can be useful but they aren't useful boated. Its a suppression weapon and not a main mode of attack. When massed it can bring down a mech bit it's like trying to cut down a tree using a nail gun I stead of an axe. Yeah you'll eventually fire enough nails to fell a tree and it might be fun doing it but it isn't even remotely efficient.

[Monkey Lover]

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Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[MovinTarget]

I used to be staunchly in the "I haet lurmz" camp and while personally still don't use them often, I have met some guys that play them and play them well... they stay with the group, focus crucial targets, and stay near the fight and share armor.

The lirm trolls that sit at 700-800m (or more!) and scream for locks are the ones that should be droppped from a group if they don't contribute...

[GoatHILL]

Lady Alexandra Cousland, on 01 January 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

If you ask me, people should just do whatever works best for them or what they are comfortable with.

If it were QP then yes but in CW you bring whats best for the team. CW is a team mode. Any more than 2 lrm boats per wave is too many and if you can aim the team is better off with direct fire.

[Wolfengel]

Quote

..... , ams ........

that is the problem

If more then 2 or 3 player use AMS, would be the LRM was "dead" or only half will arrive.

The most Player think, AMS Is garbage. And, it brings no point, XP, C-Bills etc.

Edited by Wolfengel, 01 January 2017 - 04:58 PM.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Lady Alexandra Cousland, on 01 January 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

If you ask me, people should just do whatever works best for them or what they are comfortable with.

Everyone should be given the opportunity to play what's fun for them, absolutely - that's the whole point of the game, after all.

However, to function well as a team, there absolutely has to be coordination between the members of the team, both in what they are bringing, and in how those mechs are employed. Otherwise, instead of a team, you have a disorganized mob that is easily separated and defeated.


LRMs can be fun and they can be useful in a suppression role, however, their utility against higher-quality/higher-experience players is significantly reduced, because experienced players know how to use terrain and their teammates to make LRMs ineffective, while minimizing the impact on their combat effectiveness.

Combine that with the hard numbers fact that LRMs are less effective by virtue of game mechanics, and the fact that direct-fire weapons become more effective with higher player skill, and LRMs become much more of a liability than a utility past the mid-range skill levels.

Well-coordinated teams can make them work against high-tier teams that aren't expecting it, if they have the right map, but if you don't have the right map, or the other team is even half prepared to deal with LRMs, you're toast.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

MovinTarget, on 01 January 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I used to be staunchly in the "I haet lurmz" camp and while personally still don't use them often, I have met some guys that play them and play them well... they stay with the group, focus crucial targets, and stay near the fight and share armor.

The lirm trolls that sit at 700-800m (or more!) and scream for locks are the ones that should be droppped from a group if they don't contribute...

Oh that time when the lurmers far in the back rage at you for not protecting them.
It's good that there are lurmers that just move with the main party and atleast try to be somewhere 200 meters from the enemy so they actually do damage.

GoatHILL, on 01 January 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

If it were QP then yes but in CW you bring whats best for the team. CW is a team mode. Any more than 2 lrm boats per wave is too many and if you can aim the team is better off with direct fire.

Well quick play still is team based, but since CW has the quick play modes integrated I think having lurmers are less of an issue then if it were on invasion mode.

Wolfengel, on 01 January 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

that is the problem

If more then 2 or 3 player use AMS, would be the LRM was "dead" or only half will arrive.

The most Player think, AMS Is garbage. And, it brings no point, XP, C-Bills etc.

I always have AMS as a standard on all my mechs (except lights), would be wonderful to see more people in my groups do it.

[Jown7676]

Tell that to this guy

https://youtu.be/Sn7_ILqVmyA

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Lady Alexandra Cousland, on 01 January 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

If you ask me, people should just do whatever works best for them or what they are comfortable with.

Just the attitude the IS has been losing with for years.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

I too love using lrms... you want to shut guys like me down? use the terrain and use ams... for the record, I am lucky to get even 2 kills in a qp drop, cause I am fire support when I use missiles... all too often, there are idiots sounding off in matches trying to order me to get into point blank range because of my not "sharing armor" as they see it, or "missiles are for noobs" or to go play something else. I have no problem doing close support, but I am not going to neuter my weapons just because someone else doesn't like them. Then again, I generally don't care about getting kills, I am more about high damage than kills. Remember: while I am pounding away at you with my weapons, one of my teammates is closing in to finish the kill... And as a matter of fact, I do share my armor, just because I am not in front of you when I do it isn't my problem.

And come to think of it, lrms do need a bit of a positive overhaul, as they are the slowest weapon in the game. their speed is almost 1/4 of srms iirc, and the hang time leads to too much being in the open just to make sure that they even hit as it is. So if missiles end up getting a change, it should be one that makes is so that it's less exposure time and faster firing; as missiles are nerfed enough as it is.

Edited by Galenthor Kerensky, 02 January 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Galenthor Kerensky, on 02 January 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

I too love using lrms... you want to shut guys like me down? use the terrain and use ams... for the record, I am lucky to get even 2 kills in a qp drop, cause I am fire support when I use missiles... all too often, there are idiots sounding off in matches trying to order me to get into point blank range because of my not "sharing armor" as they see it, or "missiles are for noobs" or to go play something else. I have no problem doing close support, but I am not going to neuter my weapons just because someone else doesn't like them. Then again, I generally don't care about getting kills, I am more about high damage than kills. Remember: while I am pounding away at you with my weapons, one of my teammates is closing in to finish the kill... And as a matter of fact, I do share my armor, just because I am not in front of you when I do it isn't my problem.

And thats all we can ask, put yourself in a position to help your team... it may not be at 50m, but it surely isn't so far back that you can't get your own locks either.

[Monkey Lover]

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Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[ArticArcher]

LRMs all come down to 2 types of players:

The lazy hold locks while I hide player the will not share armor and often do not even notice they are barely even doing damage. They then blame others for being 'fail'. These are of course the people that give lrm players a bad reputation.

The other type is the lrm player that moves with the group and shares armor uses tag and narc and while benefiting from other peoples spotting also spots themselves. These lrm players can shot over allied front lines in choke points during a push or guide missiles around cover with UAV use. Since they have to be closer to combat they often get shot at naturally sharing their armor.

Being a good lrm player is actually harder then it appears and getting good shots is hard since good players use AMS cover ECM. I love have lrm support from a good player, but I hate players that hide from combat letting you die for them.

[Dee Eight]

I personally find my ARC-5W chain firing five plain old non-guidance boosted LRM5 launchers produces more LRM damage than boated 4xLRM10 or LRM15 launcher size mechs, even those with artemis. Oh sure the bigger launcers deliver more per salvo, but a stead rain of LRM5s works much better at suppression and panic, and are more likely to catch someone leaving decent cover and crossing open ground trying for that marginally better cover someplace else.

[ArticArcher]

Dee Eight, on 02 January 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I personally find my ARC-5W chain firing five plain old non-guidance boosted LRM5 launchers produces more LRM damage than boated 4xLRM10 or LRM15 launcher size mechs, even those with artemis. Oh sure the bigger launcers deliver more per salvo, but a stead rain of LRM5s works much better at suppression and panic, and are more likely to catch someone leaving decent cover and crossing open ground trying for that marginally better cover someplace else.

I think that maybe due the difference of IS and clan weapons. I would never trust clan lrm 5 when I use them since they get torn apart by ams. As a clanner I perfer the alpha with lots of missiles and guide them to the target with tag if able

Edit: sorry did not nice I was in a IS faction board I guess you would careless about the clan missiles when debating IS usage of lrms.

Edited by ArticArcher, 02 January 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

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Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[Sir Whiskers VONBONBON]

when i do play those fragile catapults. i get my own locks and actually stay in the front. they tightened the spread for LRM20+A to be as thin as the LRM15's, and i see much of an improvement, and also more of a chance to leg than boating 5's/10's/15's. simply because those Triple AMS kitfoxes and Novas are out there, they'll eat those missiles.
back to the topic, LRMS are where they should be, 300 damage for LRM shouldnt be better than 300 damage for 3 Large pulse lasers. the missiles spread, and if your out of cover, your more likely out of position or not with your teammate who's providing ECM.
generally against a team that boats missiles, its a damn good idea to push your team to the enemies minimal/half damage range (180m) since they're more than likely be using their backup lasers to fight the 12 man push.

[Monkey Lover]

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Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2017 - 08:27 PM.