64 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

PAQUERA, on 05 February 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

NO

No more games for ****** pls. If people dont know where is the enemy, or see the diference between friend or foe, pls invite those people to play COD. Dont make MWO another game for *******

put a decal in your back

Do you not have any form of brain to finger filter system? Because there are so many contradictions in your statement it's actually hilarious because of how stupid it is.

CoD is quite literally the most dumbed down game on the market right now. There is no "target box" to tell you you're targeting an enemy or a friendly. Your crosshairs don't change colors from red to blue or anything.

The only indication you're targeting an enemy or friendly is, if you're attentive enough, and have a big enough screen, to be able to tell the difference between character models.

Here in MWO, there are literally no discernible differences between mech models. With the very rare exception of mechs like the Founder's Catapult, or the scaffolding on certain Phoenix Mechs and Clan Invasion Mechs. Mechs like the Resistance series have features that are even harder to discern at a quick glance.

The only really major differences are in the colors and patterns the players equip on their mechs, and that can sometimes get confusing if enemy and friendly mechs have similar colors and patterns.

You quite literally NEED to have a targeting box as a way to indicate what's an enemy and what's a friendly.

And your comment about decals on your back, that's the height of stupidity, because you would need a screen probably 5 feet tall, and that's straight up mind you, not the diagonal, to be able to make out details like that with only a quick glance.

Most average computer monitors these days don't get much bigger than 2 feet on the diagonal, and anything larger than about 30-32 inches on the diagonal is more than likely going to be curved, and therefore far more expensive than the average player could afford, i.e. $1000 on the average, that is unless you're using a TV for a monitor, like I do. And mine is 40 inches on the diagonal.

[The Lighthouse]

Make it a togglable option with default setting is "on."

I like this idea.

[Andi Nagasia]

i suppose a simple (/) over the Ridicule would be ok,
but i dont think this is likely to happen as OP states,

a simple over a Friendly Mech is one thing,
but in order for this to work with people who are Zoomed in it becomes a problem,
the System would have to draw Ray Traces from each of your weapons to where you are aiming,
then calculate if any of those Ray Traces intersect with a Friendly Mech,
if so then note back to the Player and Change the Ridicule for them,
this could cause a huge unintended server load,

Ex,
lets assume each player has 7 weapons(6-8),
every time the Server refreshes all 7 weapons Ray Traces will have to be checked with Every Mech in the Match,
this Check to find the Locations of the 23 mechs to see if the Ray Traced intersect with them(161 additional Checks)
now this happens for each Player in the Match(24) which would be(3864 additional Checks) each Refresh,
-
this is info the Player sends the Server, the server has to Compile this Data,
then send it back to register if the target is or isnt a friendly or capable of being fired upon,


its an ok idea, but i dont feel that its needed as to it being a very light benefit,
im just worried the load this may cause may have negative impacts on HSR & HitReg,

[Xmith]

vettie, on 05 February 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

We had this in MekTek's mod of Mech4Mercs.
Worked great. cut down on lots of friendly fire.

Often times in MWO, when brawling, enemy and/or friendly close in nose to nose and you cant see the 'triangle' so you dont know if it is friendly or baddie. Mini-map not zoomed enough if multiples close in....

Also, there are times (like topping a small hill or rise) that the enemy 'red' target shows up and you fire only to find out there was a friendly in between yet the target info was over the friendly....

I played MekTek for 10 years. I never saw anything like this. What they did have was a blue (friendly) directional indicator showing from where the friendly fire was coming from.

[FupDup]

Xmith, on 05 February 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

I played MekTek for 10 years. I never saw anything like this. What they did have was a blue (friendly) directional indicator showing from where the friendly fire was coming from.

Did you see my screenshot on the first page of this thread?



MW4 did indeed have the crosshair change to indicate that you were pointing at a friendly.

[Pjwned]

http://mwomercs.com/...-on-a-teammate/

Posted this forever ago, still hasn't happened.

[ProfessorD]

I'm really mystified by the opposition to this idea. If it were implemented well (separate discussion!!), it would be a helpful indicator that wouldn't get in the way of anything else you might want to do with your mech. It wouldn't take anything away from you at all, and it might result in you getting shot in the back less often. There is no downside.

Considering PGI's record with things like the minimap, it is reasonable to suspect they wouldn't implement this very well. That doesn't mean the idea is bad, though.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

I would rather not have a crosshair like that by default, because I do believe it would dumb down the game a bit.

Sometimes you have fast friendlies facetank brawling enemies and it's hard to decide if that limb on the left you could shoot at is a friendly limb or a hostile one. You may decide not to risk it or try to use your own perception and knowledge of mechs to determine which is which. It happens not THAT often, but it's an interesting situation that brings a bit of variety to the game some of us already play for years. I wouldn't like to have that simplified.

Sometimes you jump down somewhere, like the basement on HPG and end up with a mech that is so close you could see them in the cockpit. You must then decide whether he is a friendly or not as fast as possible. It happens not THAT often, but it's an interesting situation that brings a bit of variety to the game some of us have already played for years. I wouldn't like to have that simplified.

Sometimes you're in a total brawl with many mechs from both sides at very close range and you're within an enemy ECM disrupting your sensors. It is then important to focus what you're shooting at not to shoot a friendly in the chaos. It happens not THAT often, but it's an interesting situation that brings a bit of variety to the game some of us have already played for years. I wouldn't like to have that simplified.

It would be better for learning and not diminishing to the game complexity to inform a player that he shot a friendly AFTER he did that, not before. Alternatively, this crosshair could add to the game variety if it was an additional bonus added to some not that beneficial equipment, like BAP or command console.

Just an automatic crosshair doing your thinking for you - nope, sorry, don't like it. Yeah, it would limit the friendly fire to some degree, but the disadvantages are bigger to me.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 05 February 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 05 February 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

*snip*

Toggle on/off

Fixed?

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Jay Leon Hart, on 05 February 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Toggle on/off

Fixed?

That would require me to disadvantage myself just to keep that bit of complexity just for me, also preventing me from using that situations against my enemies, who - obviously - would have that on, because if it is an option, it would be dumb not no use it. This is not a singleplayer game.

Another "alternatively": I wouldn't oppose such thing on the trial mechs. Beginners have the right to such handicaps, they have a whole lot to learn all at once already.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 05 February 2017 - 11:27 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 05 February 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

That would require me to disadvantage myself just to keep that bit of complexity just for me, also preventing me from using that situations against my enemies, who - obviously - would have that on, because if it is an option, it would be dumb not no use it. This is not a singleplayer game.

Similar to the leg directional arrow, it seems. I have that turned off because it's pretty immersion breaking. I don't see an IFF indicator breaking my immersion, in fact it fits the futuristic combat sim theme perfectly, but to each their own.

[Kanil]

Question: When you shoot your teammates, doesn't your crosshair turn red... as if you were shooting an enemy?

I think it does, but honestly can't remember. If it does, that is terrible. Friendly fire should have some sort of specific feedback (PS2 springs to mind with it's friendly fire sound.)

Anyway, something like this would be good. I recently got cored out while face hugging a hostile 'mech, because my teammate saw the red dorito, but couldn't make out that there were two 'mechs there because I was blocking the hostile from view... so he thought I was the hostile with the red dorito.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Jay Leon Hart, on 05 February 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Similar to the leg directional arrow, it seems. I have that turned off because it's pretty immersion breaking. I don't see an IFF indicator breaking my immersion, in fact it fits the futuristic combat sim theme perfectly, but to each their own.

Not really similar. Directional arrow helps only if you're not used to "tank-like" steering. It is helpful only to beginners or people that for some reason have some real trouble learning to know where did they directed those legs. It's useless for seasoned players, not because you'll never forget where those legs are pointing (very rarely, but I still sometimes happens to me), but because you'll just do better in the game focusing on your surroundings and overall situation than when you look at your feet to check where is the arrow pointing. Directional arrow is like sidewheels, after some time it does more good than bad bad than good. That crosshair change will be 'beneficial' always and for everybody. It will just make some small part of your thinking for you in that supposedly "thinking's man shooter".

EDIT:

Kanil, on 05 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

Question: When you shoot your teammates, doesn't your crosshair turn red... as if you were shooting an enemy?
I think it does, but honestly can't remember. If it does, that is terrible. Friendly fire should have some sort of specific feedback (PS2 springs to mind with it's friendly fire sound.)

It does turn red when you do damage, no matter what damage do you do. Feedback AFTER you shot a friendly would be OK, it would just inform you of the consequences of your decision. I see nothing bad about that.

Kanil, on 05 February 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

Anyway, something like this would be good. I recently got cored out while face hugging a hostile 'mech, because my teammate saw the red dorito, but couldn't make out that there were two 'mechs there because I was blocking the hostile from view... so he thought I was the hostile with the red dorito.

The whole magic of this situation that it is somebody's personal assessment and decision to risk or not risk such shot, or skill to be able to decide if that component of the facehugging couple you see is friendly or not. It makes interesting (sometimes extreme) situations happen. If you let UI to just tell you what you're shooting at, you strip the game of a little part of complexity it has.

You know why there are "so many potatoes" in this game? Because it's complex. I get that some of you guys are tired of seeing fellow players making horrible decisions, but it's a consequence of the fact how many decision there is to take in this game.This is what makes it different from some straight up shooter of aim and click while pressing space a lot, where nothing matters more of you hand-eye coordination. In those games there's just no decisions to make except to press space a lot and click better than the enemy. The goods are those who click better, the bads are those who click worse. I believe we should cultivate every bit of MWO that makes it different from those games.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 05 February 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

Cathy, on 05 February 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Friendly fire is mostly caused by.

LURM boats dropping missiles on brawling targets they can't see.

'Brave' pilots that hung back and now suddenly want that kill regardless of personal cost to the friendlies in the way once the match has been won.

Pilots masking the target to 'secure the kill'

situationally unaware pilots that push past a mech with line of sight to an engaged target, and then call them idiot potato heads for shooting them in the back.

The kill suddenly becoming phantom and shots that would have hit it suddenly impacting a friendly the other side ( this is clearly an intended feature of the game as it's happened from day one, with no comment about fixing it)

Streak boats tracking targets that imposes a friendly between it and the firing mech

None of these situations will change by adding a feature that isn't needed, the red dorito exists for a reason, friendly fire happens because people chose to ignore it

Terrible pop tarts... that fire too soon or too late... when they are jumping behind you :/

[Jay Leon Hart]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 05 February 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

*snip*

Ok, then I have an extreme hypothetical for you. Remove weapon ranges, recharge times, damage indicators, speedometers, ammo counters, heat status... basically most of the HUD besides the minimap and *maybe* the enemy paperdoll. Would that be something you'd enjoy playing, because it was more challenging to learn and required more thinking?

[Edit] Just trying to understand your PoV. I'm guessing you either like the UI as-is or would like it to be less user friendly. [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 05 February 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Accused]

Jay Leon Hart, on 05 February 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

besides the minimap

and take away the quirks you just might have yourself a deal!

Actually having the reticle change isn't a "bad" idea. I think "needing" to have it coupled with the thought process is what drives me a little stir crazy. Also, I enjoy playing with the arrow on too. Just don't ask how my artic cheetah manages to land with exact precision facing your back.

[Tarogato]

Wouldn't stop me from planting full alpha's straight into friendly's backs when they cross my fire. Potato reaction time > obnoxious reticule marker IFF.

[Scout Derek]

Tarogato, on 05 February 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Wouldn't stop me from planting full alpha's straight into friendly's backs when they cross my fire. Potato reaction time > obnoxious reticule marker IFF.

true, but it does help your own team from shooting you erroneously.



take a look at this. 5:30. Jaguar mistakes his own Marauder for an enemy and shoots him.

[Accused]

Scout Derek, on 05 February 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

true, but it does help your own team from shooting you erroneously.

take a look at this. 5:30. Jaguar mistakes his own Marauder for an enemy and shoots him.

I don't think it would in this case. Hence my really only sole issues with it. I could understand the first time he fired. His teammate was too close and the blue box was probably far outside near the edges of the screen. I can see how that could happen when that close.

But his teammate moved away, the blue box would have shrunk somewhat, at least enough to finally see those boxes and he still fired. He was not paying attention to IFF indicators. I blame tunnel vision. It happens to the best of us.

[Carl Vickers]

Would that also help when someone walks over a mech carcass that went down to streaks and left a few unexploded bombs behind?

Would that help with people walking in front of a mech when it is firing instead of the smart thing of going behind it?

While it might help a little I dont think it is going to make that much of a difference.