26 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So with talks of the gauss and PPC meta making a come back I was remembering the good old days where Victors and Highlanders reigned supreme and Stalkers oneshotted the sides off medium mechs and Cataphracts were the top tier meta heavy.

It made me think about how some of the mechs would be now if they had the unnerfed hoverjets and no gauss charge.

We have the normal Highlander:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a554d4291bb6ef0

Then the Highlander IIC which would have been faster, more armored, colder running, and higher alpha if we count the splash:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c42fd9f792a4ae2

And we have the Kodiak-2 being the top tier Kodiak instead of the non jumping variants. It could use the gauss and PPC combo or just go full on PPC boat similar to a Stalker but with jumping and more armor and cooling.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ee9155b00725947

And we even have whales soaring through the air.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a09aea3c8019b49


If I'm honest I'd love to have seen what the Clans could have done if jump jets, ppc, and gauss never got giganerfed. We'd have a large variety of poptart flavors at least.

Come now, remember with me!

[RestosIII]

I'm just imagining my Mad Cat MK II with unnerfed JJ's and feeling giddy.

[Scout Derek]

RestosIII, on 03 February 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

I'm just imagining my Timberwolf MK II with unnerfed JJ's and feeling giddy.

:>

[RestosIII]

Scout Derek, on 03 February 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

:>

Trying to trigger me with the same thing over and over again.

[Scout Derek]

RestosIII, on 03 February 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

Trying to trigger me with the same thing over and over again.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So many of the mechs that are never used or are currently considered mediocre or trash would be awesome if poptarting wasn't nerfed.

Supernova, KDK-2, Victors, Highlanders, Highlander IICs, Summoners pre loyalty pods, Dire Wolf S, Executioner, Cataphracts, Marauder, etc. They'd all be able to fly up and hit hard without much worry of low mounts or speed too slow to poke with.

Some of our current common mechs would also have more options than LPL+ML/ERLL spam such as some Thunderbolt variants and Grasshoppers. Would bring some more options out.

Honestly with ghost heat killing the ability to fire 4PPC at once, the huge PPC heat increases, the massive velocity nerfs to PPCs, and the cooldown and charge and range nerfs to gauss, and the quirks added to various mechs, and the shake added to jump jetting, having jump jets as powerful as they once were wouldn't even be too bad and would save a bunch of old mechs and ones to come.

[Scout Derek]

Dakota1000, on 03 February 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Honestly with ghost heat killing the ability to fire 4PPC at once, the huge PPC heat increases, the massive velocity nerfs to PPCs, and the cooldown and charge and range nerfs to gauss, and the quirks added to various mechs, and the shake added to jump jetting, having jump jets as powerful as they once were wouldn't even be too bad and would save a bunch of old mechs and ones to come.

I honestly think allowing them to revert Jump Jets to what they once were without any Penalty is a dangerous thing. You don't just buff the older ones, but you buff the better ones too.

And that goes with anything for a reason; Why Clan Large Lasers were nerfed, why IS Large Lasers and Pulses nerfed, why Mgs got nerfed, why Dakka Got nerfed, and so on.

There was a reason why PGI attempted to implement a new heat penalty system, but went about it the wrong way/ people didn't like it.

Again, it would be nice, yet I feel that certain mechs should stay the same way while the ones that do need it should get a buff. Perhaps a new quirk along the lines of "Jump Jet Velocity" should be added to the mobility skill tree this month?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Scout Derek, on 03 February 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

I honestly think allowing them to revert Jump Jets to what they once were without any Penalty is a dangerous thing. You don't just buff the older ones, but you buff the better ones too.

And that goes with anything for a reason; Why Clan Large Lasers were nerfed, why IS Large Lasers and Pulses nerfed, why Mgs got nerfed, why Dakka Got nerfed, and so on.

There was a reason why PGI attempted to implement a new heat penalty system, but went about it the wrong way/ people didn't like it.

Again, it would be nice, yet I feel that certain mechs should stay the same way while the ones that do need it should get a buff. Perhaps a new quirk along the lines of "Jump Jet Velocity" should be added to the mobility skill tree this month?

I'd feel even the current better poptarts would be fine with a boost since they manage to work because they happened to fit in the medium to heavy category where JJs aren't absolute trash. Mechs like the Night Gyr get their power out of being able to hold as much firepower as they do and having adequate jump, Hunchback IIC and Summoners are good for their high mounts. Giving those mechs a bit more jump height or jump speed wouldn't give them much of a boost since the Hunchbacks and Summoners wouldn't want to jump high anyway as to not expose and the Night Gyrs would be doing similar.

Really Lights and Assaults are the classes that really need their jump jets boosted back to normal. Medium mechs are fine and heavies are only slightly weak on the jump jets. I'd be fine with seeing a Dire Wolf be able to fly, with all its other restrictions it'd breathe life back into the chassis.

[Scout Derek]

Dakota1000, on 03 February 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

I'd feel even the current better poptarts would be fine with a boost since they manage to work because they happened to fit in the medium to heavy category where JJs aren't absolute trash. Mechs like the Night Gyr get their power out of being able to hold as much firepower as they do and having adequate jump, Hunchback IIC and Summoners are good for their high mounts. Giving those mechs a bit more jump height or jump speed wouldn't give them much of a boost since the Hunchbacks and Summoners wouldn't want to jump high anyway as to not expose and the Night Gyrs would be doing similar.

Really Lights and Assaults are the classes that really need their jump jets boosted back to normal. Medium mechs are fine and heavies are only slightly weak on the jump jets. I'd be fine with seeing a Dire Wolf be able to fly, with all its other restrictions it'd breathe life back into the chassis.

The thing is though at times, Mechs like to be able to jump higher in order to spot targets easier and have more time to shoot, and then have the rest of their fuel dedicated to landing.

I honestly think that mechs that should have the jump jetting power in assaults should be the ones that get closer. Give them more mobility across any battlefield however should they choose to bring their weapons, so long as they're fighting up front. Lights I think a few need it, but not all.

[cazidin]

RestosIII, on 03 February 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

Trying to trigger me with the same thing over and over again.

Did they make an anime from that?

[RestosIII]

cazidin, on 03 February 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Did they make an anime from that?

Yeah, Danganropa got two different anime series. Never watched them myself.

[El Bandito]

As I said many, many times. Just buff back JJ boost value, and make it so that JJs retain 50% reticule shake even when they are cut off, so that JJs will be more effective in brawling and mid range, and less effective at long range pop-tarting yawnfest.

[Mystere]

If 90% (arbitrary) of maps in this game contained very tall structures (e.g. highly-urban cities with skyscrapers), poptarts would not be a general problem. As an added benefit, this plain-as-vanilla arena-only game will have more variety and flavor.

But no, people continually insist on fixing the symptoms and not the actual problem.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 03 February 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

If 90% (arbitrary) of maps in this game contained very tall structures (e.g. highly-urban cities with skyscrapers), poptarts would not be a general problem. As an added benefit, this plain-as-vanilla arena-only game will have more variety and flavor.

But no, people continually insist on fixing the symptoms and not the actual problem.

Then say good bye to entire lineup of LRMs.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

OH BBY MY SDR-5V <3

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's a map design issue, really

If you make maps with plenty of tall structures like River City where poptarting is harder to do, LRMs and extreme range weaponry become ineffective

If you design a map to be big and open LRMs will do better but there will be far more poptarting potential and it will screw over anyone that dared to take a brawler in solo queue

If you do a mix you just end up with everyone rotating AROUND the big open areas and sticking to cover (see: frozen city, grim plexus), LRMs being ineffective, and poptarting just happening cover to cover and on the move, and the brawlers waiting on their asses for something to happen if the team decides not to rotate

[Ted Wayz]

...and no religion too?

[Mystere]

Ted Wayz, on 04 February 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

...and no religion too?

... and no countries!

[C E Dwyer]

All the people..

Living life in peace ahhahhaaaa...

[Choppah]

Overview of the old poptarting problem as I see it:

• Increased gravity (I believe tests confirmed it is like 4x gravity but I haven't seen that youtube vid in a while) caused mechs to drop way faster than normal.
  
• Very controllable ascent with instant cutoff.
  
• No heat penalty.
  
• Reticle shake ends the instant the JJ button is let go.
  
• Certain notorious spots and their lack of adequate cover or ability to directly attack/flank (Crimson Strait Saddle).

Combination of above factors meant little to no time to react and retaliate. Poptarters were the best peekers and frequently made excellent damage trades, meaning low risk for high reward. Instead of being nerfed into near uselessness, JJ should have been buffed in ascent speed and a higher horizontal to vertical ratio. Using JJ should have been to primarily to move into a flanking position or clear obstacles, not used much in the attack itself. Along with that, less finite control of fuel would have meant JJs actually had a risk once committed to the maneuver with no real ability to back out since the mech would be suspended in mid air much higher off the ground. Alas, this all falls on deaf ears, PGI already made their choice and unless adding the new tech means turning over a new leaf, nothing will change.