82 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

Fire rate quirks is what it is going to get....

+20% PPC rate
+20% ERLL Rate

.... but no heat quirks.... have fun asploding!

[Lightfoot]

Yep MWO will not support the Supernova. Might just barely support a Novacat.

[FupDup]

Lightfoot, on 07 February 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Yep MWO will not support the Supernova. Might just barely support a Novacat.

Nova Cat can use ballistics and missiles on any variant thanks to Omnipods.

The Subpar-nova isn't quite so fortunate...

[MacClearly]

@Gas Guzzler

That's debatable. Balance might actually be better if you COULD fire 3 ER LL. Since you can't there is no reason to take cER LLs over cER PPCs.

Yeah I would think the debate would be burn time and PPFLD. Think the PPC's win that one in the current state of the game.

Further confining it to the low slung arms of a slow 90 tonner, means it definitely wouldn't even be overbearing.

There is certainly a reason there is ghost heat for cerll and although the mounts may not be great, I can't see how that alone should justify being able to fire three of them.

Eh the King Crab is kind of weak. I would prefer it be better than a King Crab. I would prefer it be on par with the good, useful mechs, like the Banshee/Battlemaster/Executioner/Stalker/Cyclops.

My point is it should be on par with the Crab. I don't think it is in any way reasonable for the Clans to have the top three assaults. That it would compete with the Crab and be ten tons lighter and have more options via Clan tech, should be enough in my opinion.

CK16, on 07 February 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Pretty sure the King Crab has quirks for its ballistics though...to help it's niche as a gun boat...Super Nova's is stuck with energy boating LARGE caliber energy weapons...that it realisticly can't even run because of Ghost Heat kicks the **** out of ER larger lasers along with its stupid long burn time..the Supernova will be inferior if it has nothing going for it to be niche...I am.not asking for broken niche just something to make it scary...like how the Warhawk is know for PPC slinging, this stuck hold be known for ER Large laser sniping and be able to run it reliably....Giving it this niche would not make it OP, just viable.

Firing two will still fit the role you are suggesting. Slinging six cerll and firing them three at a time without ghost heat will be too much. Willing to bet that it is not going to happen, nor should it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

There is certainly a reason there is ghost heat for cerll and although the mounts may not be great, I can't see how that alone should justify being able to fire three of them.

Mounts can justify that, after all that is the reason why the Vindicator has so many quirks and STILL is not that great.

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

My point is it should be on par with the Crab. I don't think it is in any way reasonable for the Clans to have the top three assaults. That it would compete with the Crab and be ten tons lighter and have more options via Clan tech, should be enough in my opinion.

Giving the Supernova that ability to fire 3 ERLL at a time won't make this a top tier assault.....and neither is the King Crab as it is outdone by several mechs (Battlemaster, Banshee, Cyclops, and Mauler just to name a few).

[Gas Guzzler]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

@Gas Guzzler

That's debatable. Balance might actually be better if you COULD fire 3 ER LL. Since you can't there is no reason to take cER LLs over cER PPCs.

Yeah I would think the debate would be burn time and PPFLD. Think the PPC's win that one in the current state of the game.

Further confining it to the low slung arms of a slow 90 tonner, means it definitely wouldn't even be overbearing.

There is certainly a reason there is ghost heat for cerll and although the mounts may not be great, I can't see how that alone should justify being able to fire three of them.

Eh the King Crab is kind of weak. I would prefer it be better than a King Crab. I would prefer it be on par with the good, useful mechs, like the Banshee/Battlemaster/Executioner/Stalker/Cyclops.

My point is it should be on par with the Crab. I don't think it is in any way reasonable for the Clans to have the top three assaults. That it would compete with the Crab and be ten tons lighter and have more options via Clan tech, should be enough in my opinion.



Firing two will still fit the role you are suggesting. Slinging six cerll and firing them three at a time without ghost heat will be too much. Willing to bet that it is not going to happen, nor should it.

I feel like you have an overexaggerated sense of how good Clan ER LLs are. Firing 3 by 3 ER LL is not over bearing, and is still extremely hot (60 heat). If anything, the only reason you can only fire 3 is because firing 3 cLPL at a time would might be a little too strong, and they are linked. Saying "there is a reason they have ghost heat" isn't saying anything, aside from the fact that PGI set that number 2.5 years ago and hasn't changed it since.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

I feel like you have an overexaggerated sense of how good Clan ER LLs are. Firing 3 by 3 ER LL is not over bearing, and is still extremely hot (60 heat). If anything, the only reason you can only fire 3 is because firing 3 cLPL at a time would might be a little too strong, and they are linked. Saying "there is a reason they have ghost heat" isn't saying anything, aside from the fact that PGI set that number 2.5 years ago and hasn't changed it since.

Well, it would be cool if PGI would stop normalizing everything and not force the Clan ERLL to have the same limit as the CLPL. It's apparently very difficult for PGI to have the Clan ERLL set to 3 while keeping the LPL at 2. They must always be identical all the time, no exceptions!

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Well, it would be cool if PGI would stop normalizing everything and not force the Clan ERLL to have the same limit as the CLPL. It's apparently very difficult for PGI to have the Clan ERLL set to 3 while keeping the LPL at 2. They must always be identical all the time, no exceptions!

I guess they think people will "work around" it by firing ER LL and cLPL if they weren't linked. Still doesn't mean they can't do a string compare and figure out if the group contains one or more cLPL and lower the limit to 2, but leave c ERLL at 3. I mean, its 33 damage over 1.5 seconds, you can spread that pretty easily.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 February 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Well, it would be cool if PGI would stop normalizing everything and not force the Clan ERLL to have the same limit as the CLPL. It's apparently very difficult for PGI to have the Clan ERLL set to 3 while keeping the LPL at 2. They must always be identical all the time, no exceptions!

I think the 2xclan laser is about balanced with the 3xIS .

Clan is pulling 22dmg with 20 heat and IS is 27 with 24 heat.

Clans has more range,less weight,less slots and more dps.
IS has shorter duration(16%) and very slight less heat 0.03.

This of course is not counting quirks and targeting computers.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 07 February 2017 - 04:25 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 07 February 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

I think the 2xclan laser is about balanced with the 3xIS .

Clan is pulling 22dmg with 20 heat and IS is 27 with 24 heat.

Clans has more range,less weight,less slots and more dps.
IS has has shorter duration and very slight less heat 0.03.

This of course is not counting quirks and targeting computers.

But you'll notice that IS ER LL are actually used to some degree, whereas typically you don't see competent players using Clan ER LL. That's because of the duration.

22 damage over 1.5 seconds is very very poor. Much worse than 27 damage over 1.25 seconds.

Either way, we are just talking about the Supernova, and presumably just the base SNV-1 variant, which only has low mounted arm hardpoints. Honestly, if they gave it a No-ghost heat ER LL quirk, I STILL probably wouldn't use cER LLs on it. Maybe I would try it on Alpine or Boreal a couple times, but I doubt it.

[MacClearly]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

I feel like you have an overexaggerated sense of how good Clan ER LLs are. Firing 3 by 3 ER LL is not over bearing, and is still extremely hot (60 heat). If anything, the only reason you can only fire 3 is because firing 3 cLPL at a time would might be a little too strong, and they are linked. Saying "there is a reason they have ghost heat" isn't saying anything, aside from the fact that PGI set that number 2.5 years ago and hasn't changed it since.

I think that you bring up a fair point that the reason for ghost heat is not well explained.

My opinion why PGI did this is because of it's superior range and because it does 11 damage to the IS's 9. It weighs less and takes up less space. So to me it isn't random that PGI did this 2.5 years ago and for balance sake it does appear to have a purpose.

Also do think that being able to put out 33, then wait .5 and do another 33 would be very powerful even with the duration.

With a TC I have a Night Gyr C with quirks and modules can fire two and two and an effective range of 900m. It is very powerful and I don't want to see what two pairs of three can do.

Good chance PGI sees this and I think it very unlikely they are going to unhook it from the rule of two it has currently.

[Monkey Lover]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

But you'll notice that IS ER LL are actually used to some degree, whereas typically you don't see competent players using Clan ER LL. That's because of the duration.

22 damage over 1.5 seconds is very very poor. Much worse than 27 damage over 1.25 seconds.

Either way, we are just talking about the Supernova, and presumably just the base SNV-1 variant, which only has low mounted arm hardpoints. Honestly, if they gave it a No-ghost heat ER LL quirk, I STILL probably wouldn't use cER LLs on it. Maybe I would try it on Alpine or Boreal a couple times, but I doubt it.

The IS er laser is 1.25 seconds. If you count the clan dmg is about the same dmg over the same time.
Problem i see is the quirks on the IS mechs make the weapons worth using. Kind of hard to balance the weapon around the grasshopper

Edited by Monkey Lover, 07 February 2017 - 04:40 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

I think that you bring up a fair point that the reason for ghost heat is not well explained.

My opinion why PGI did this is because of it's superior range and because it does 11 damage to the IS's 9. It weighs less and takes up less space. So to me it isn't random that PGI did this 2.5 years ago and for balance sake it does appear to have a purpose.

Also do think that being able to put out 33, then wait .5 and do another 33 would be very powerful even with the duration.

With a TC I have a Night Gyr C with quirks and modules can fire two and two and an effective range of 900m. It is very powerful and I don't want to see what two pairs of three can do.

Good chance PGI sees this and I think it very unlikely they are going to unhook it from the rule of two it has currently.

The duration is a huge detriment. Its why IS ERLL are used frequently, where as typically you won't see c ER LL unless people are just messing around or maybe in CW.

That Night Gyr build is pretty bad, its not very powerful I'm afraid. A Grasshopper with its 810m range and vastly superior duration would easily win trades against that Night Gyr.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 07 February 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Kind of hard to balance the weapon around the grasshopper

Well, not really. Its just balancing by what is available in game currently.

[SlippnGriff]

enough quirks that will make each all energy hardpoint mech play differently

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

With a TC I have a Night Gyr C with quirks and modules can fire two and two and an effective range of 900m. It is very powerful and I don't want to see what two pairs of three can do.

No, that build is a waste of a Night Gyr, because you will get beaten by the Grasshopper. The small bit of extra range you get doesn't offset the extra duration and lower damage alpha that you have to deal with.

If you are only going to run 4 cERLL though, the best platform is the HBK-IIC-A.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 February 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[MacClearly]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

The duration is a huge detriment. Its why IS ERLL are used frequently, where as typically you won't see c ER LL unless people are just messing around or maybe in CW.

That Night Gyr build is pretty bad, its not very powerful I'm afraid. A Grasshopper with its 810m range and vastly superior duration would easily win trades against that Night Gyr.

Probably against a decent player sure. Shooting fellow potato's at 1000m is working for me. Oh and it has two ultra fives as well. Also run dual ultra fives and dual lpl that does my potato butt pretty gud.

Edit: I meant ultra two's on cerll version.

Edited by MacClearly, 07 February 2017 - 06:26 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

Probably against a decent player sure. Shooting fellow potato's at 1000m is working for me.

I can shoot potatoes just fine in a Mist Lynx too, doesn't mean it is good.....

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 February 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[TheMadTypist]

I actually stumbled across a video today that details the kinds of things I'd like to be able to do in a supernova:



soo.. at minimum I'd like to see the following, copied and pasted from the -4N's quirks:

LARGE LASER RANGE: 5.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 %
LARGE LASER COOLDOWN: 5.00 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 5.00 %
LARGE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -5.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -5.00 %

on account of how Large Lasers are better weapons than C-ER-LARGE lasers, and C-ER-LARGE can't even fire three at a time without ghost heat, I can't imagine that'd go amiss.

[MacClearly]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 07 February 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

I can shoot potatoes just fine in a Mist Lynx too, doesn't mean it is good.....

I think you are omitting a key component to what I said... That being that I am a potato shooting other potato's.

You are right that it isn't a good build that is going to make metamechs because a potato like myself is using it.

What it is though is the best Clan mech for range quirk with cerll (I am told but someone told me that perhaps a Warhawk also has 10%?), that with a big TC and modules I can outrange that fellow potato in that Grasshopper as we are both timidly hiding out on Frozen city... My unit leader who is not a potato actually pointed it out (and he said in fairness that it is not very good except on Alpine and Polar for FW drops).

As well I appreciate your opinion on the Hunchie IIC. I really like it with PPC's though. I have seen EMP guys lately doing four cerll in group queue and even in FW in Hellbringers and I am the kind of player that looks at the best players in the game and think if they are doing it there must be something to it even if it is situational.

So you are not wrong, but even though it is highly situational, I have enjoyed messing around with it. To be honest my experimenting lately have had a serious impact stats wise on my main account so again all signs point to you being absolutely right.