814 replies to this topic

[FerretboysRevenge]

Can I dance for C-bills and EXP like they did in Warcraft after the hard reset?

[Ralatar]

I've put in a bit of time (2012) into gaining and through the years mastering my mech's. Stable of about 150, which I keep narrowed down when new mechs are released if needed. I do have a bit of time to play so all but 10 are mastered, a pride thing and MASSIVE amounts of time, blood, tears.

I'm not understanding why I'm not being given a % of my current skill unlocks plus the current xp for each mech itself. I've put in the time, all o us have have to get to that point. If the mech has 70% of the required xp to master in the current system then on conversion it gets 63 points (64 if you round up), fewer losses IMHO for all, new and old. Anything I've spent enough time and effort going through the rule of 3 to mastery should have 91 points on cutover. Not money, refunded xp or anything other than the mastered mech's I/we have spent the time building.

Other wise you've just wasted years of how many peoples time? and money...again, IMHO

[Appogee]

meteorol, on 09 February 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

Utterly terrible quite frankly speaking. Putting people on hard reset this way could make some people simply quit the game instead of grinding the cbills to master their mechs again.

I doubt I will quit completely, but I can certainly see myself playing less.

Many days over the past year I just logged in to progress my levelling of my 247 Mechs. But there is no way I am going to even try to level all my Mechs again with 3X the XP and +9M CBills required. The grind is just too great now.

Worse, due to the new CBill tax on levelling, we won't be building up enough CBills to fund our next chassis purchase. And I will not reward PGI's gouging by spending even more cash to buy Mech packs.

If the FP endgame was more deep and compelling, maybe I'd be tempted to spend more money. But FP suffers from the same fundamental design and balance issues, the same lack of ambition, that it did when they first rushed it out the door. It's clear PGI have no intention to make FP meaningful.

[Appogee]

FerretboysRevenge, on 09 February 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

Can I dance for C-bills and EXP like they did in Warcraft after the hard reset?

No, but you can bend over and grab your ankles.

[suffocater]

Appogee, on 09 February 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

Have I captured the pros and cons in the below?

Negatives:
* takes 3X more XP and an extra 9.1M CBills to Master any Mech.
* benefits people who maintain only a handful of mechs.
* discourages collecting many Mechs.
* encourages buying only metamechs.
* incents locking in of "best build".
* significantly taxes experimentation with different builds.
* destroys previous XP spent on non-Meta Mechs.
* in effect, requires you to grind a separate Mech Module for each Mech.
* in effect, reduces building up the CBills while griding necessary to purchase new Mechs.

Positives:
* no more module hunting/swapping.
* you can spec out multiple versions of a single Mech, with different skills.
* it's something new, in a game that has been stagnating.

THIS! Thank you!

[meteorol]

Appogee, on 09 February 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

I doubt I will quit completely, but I can certainly see myself playing less.

Many days over the past year I just logged in to progress my levelling of my 247 Mechs. But there is no way I am going to even try to level all my Mechs again with 3X the XP and +9M CBills required. The grind is just too great now.

Worse, due to the new CBill tax on levelling, we won't be building up enough CBills to fund our next chassis purchase. And I will not reward PGI's gouging by spending even more cash to buy Mech packs.

If the FP endgame was more deep and compelling, maybe I'd be tempted to spend more money. But FP suffers from the same fundamental design and balance issues, the same lack of ambition, that it did when they first rushed it out the door. It's clear PGI have no intention to make FP meaningful.

I'm pretty much not affected by it. I never bought subpar mechs, so i'm just sitting on like 70 mastered mechs, Plenty of them fell out of meta (HGN, VTR, BK etc.) so i'll maybe, maaaaybe master 20 mechs and i'm sitting on 450m cbills before module refunds.

But even though it doesn't affect me at all, i can see how terrible this will be for large parts of the playerbase. It's literally the first thing that came to my mind "well, that is going to wreck plenty of players".

Honestly, i'm once again speechless on how PGI could even come up with such a terrible idea. The system would make sense if they put it in place back in the days. 9 mio cbills are appropriate considering you don't need to buy 3 mech variants under the new system.

But that simply doens't take into consideration people already bought 3 variants of each mech, mastered them, and now can't pay the fee to master their already mastered mechs.

[el piromaniaco]

Log into PTS.

YESS!!!!
2.5 BILLION C-Bills! MwuHAHAHAHa!

Edit:
Okay.
Second impression after locating the new Skills Tab in Mechlab: Whoah! May have to print that out and start tinkering for evey mech (180+) which path i may want ot choose where.
SO MANY OPTIONS!

Edited by el piromaniaco, 09 February 2017 - 02:06 AM.

[tee5]

Bring this skill-tree and your game is toast.

[PAQUERA]

Morggo, on 08 February 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Soooo excited. Haven't really seen anything yet that is overly bad honestly.

Cost? C'mon really? 9 million cbills bad? I'm mediocre and my average cbill per match is over 100K. So you're telling me I can fully master out a mech in 75-80 or so drops? easy peasy! Love it!

136K xp to fully master out.. .people do realize that there is far more benefit in these 91 nodes than we get today.. so yeah, I'm totally fine with spending more to get more.

Build variety? Damn straight! I've already got all sorts of builds in mind for mechs I used to rarely drive. I was never much into poke mech.. but this will likely get me started.

I know I'm in the total minority based on the three pages I've read so far... but damn I'm looking forward to this.

PTS already loaded up!

well said. IM with u

stop whining, is a good change, now u can create ur own quirks, and made that quikcdraw a ppc machine or a long range sniper again.

Try to see the potential, end of look and collect for ur modules in docens of mech, end of 3 mech for a mastery (cheapin time, cheap in cbills) end of choose a mech because the quirks are good or no.

More cheap in cbils, and the oportunity to requirk again and again. A timber ppc, a timber with small pulse, a timber with ac20... Is ok PGI, im happy

Edited by PAQUERA, 09 February 2017 - 02:22 AM.

[PAQUERA]

DGTLDaemon, on 09 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

So, was this a blatant lie by PGI? Because 136k XP is in no way "similar" to 56k XP...

is only 1 mech that u have to master, not 3 that u need to master. End of 3 mech to buy for mastering

[AnTi90d]

OK, I played around with it for hours and read countless pages of feedback. The new system has some glaring flaws.

• This new skill system really hurts the new player experience.

New players buy one Radar Derp and pass it around their mechs while they level them up.


Now, every single fresh, 0xp mech is going to be easily spotted / murdered by LRMs for the first few dozen matches until that player can save up enough xp and Cbills to afford Derp.

This makes leveling up new mechs more difficult than ever, which is a burden that new players will have to deal with.. especially in Tier 4/5, where LRMs are very popular.


The solution:

Give every single mech ~20 free nodes to unlock, right out of the box.


-----

• The biggest issue with this new skill system is that it encourages boating one weapon and penalizes build diversity. Mauler MX90 / Nova / Kodiak 3 / Grasshopper or any mech with multiples of one hardpoint type get to upgrade all of their weapons. Marauder / Orion / Victor / Vindicator are severely punished by having multiple types of hardpoints.

PGI claims that this system, and I quote:

Quote

Promote greater build and 'Mech diversity

The system utterly fails at their own design goal.


The solution:

Don't have individual weapon skills. Consolidate weapon skills into categories that affect all three weapon types.

-Rate of fire: Reduce weapons cooldown for all weapons
-Range: Increase range for all weapons
-Heat efficiency: Reduce heat generation for all weapons
-Precision: Consolidate missile spread, LBX spread, laser duration, and projectile velocity into a single catch-all skill.

BOOM, then boats would be on the same footing as mechs that are forced to have a small number of three types of hardpoints.


-----

• The new system allows overperforming mechs to become even more powerful.

The Kodiak 3, the Marauder IIc and other mechs that are already clear overperformers manage to get an even larger leg-up on the competition within their weight bracket, with the new skill system.



The solution:

Overperforming mechs should have fewer nodes available to them.

Underperforming mechs should have more nodes available to them.

PGI has the stats. They know which mechs score, on average, more damage / kills than the other mechs within their weight bracket. The mechs that have better hitboxes / hardpoints should receive fewer nodes than ones that have terrible hitboxes and low / spread / diverse hardpoints.

Edited by AnTi90d, 09 February 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[PAQUERA]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

actually... it doesn't. a lot of these skills are MODULES currently, or don't even exist yet. and some of those old pilot skills really actually weren't even worth getting for some mechs either. there's nothing saying you HAVE to fully spec out a mech.

@Q res: the cost is the cost of modifying your mech to have that quirk. and honestly, even if you're a crappy player, you're still gonna have enough to unlock a node after two matches, or enough for two nodes after a really good match, and so on.

Honestly, fully specced mechs will be ones you actually PLAY a lot. there's no way in hell you guys with 260+ Mechs actually use them all that much. I have roughly 80, and i maybe use forty of those Mechs, and maybe 20 of them regularly. Honestly, i'd just use the matches I use said mechs in to pay for their spec-outs. done.

Quirks were meant as a stopgap measure. they were never meant to be the end-all-be-all of MechWarrior. same goes for the old piloting and mech skills, and Modules. what we're seeing is how they always WANTED it to be in the first place. You're playing an MMO. Adapt, or leave, it's that simple.

also, for the guy noting "A lot of Competitive players have left the game over this"? those guys are bailing BECAUSE Meta-mongers are getting shafted hardcore, as they should. the new trees will honestly prove that the best actual pilots will carry the day, as they realized what they actually needed, and didn't just attempt to boat, thinking that's all they needed to do.

After all, the amount of damage you do doesn't really matter as much as WHERE it's done to, and stuff like Vectoring, and the various Mobility, infotech, etc stuff will actually present a ton of tactical options to savvy players. e.g. say, a team thinking it's safe because "no one could possibly jump that ravine behind us", enter Vector-specced Lance that vaults it because they spent the points into that and the skill for burn time on JJs, thus giving them a flanking advantage, and juicy rear armor to chew on.

Im with u. Its common sense. Master first ur prefer mechs, not ALL ur mech. Choose ur mech and the quirks u want for ur builds. Whats the problem?

Edited by PAQUERA, 09 February 2017 - 02:37 AM.

[Ralatar]

I've heard the argument of "you have 100+ mech's, how many of them do you really play, just pick 10-30 and be happy..". Um..not the point, I put in the blood, sweat and tears like many to master some really painful mech chasse's only to have all that time and effort lost if they aren't slinging 91 points when this goes live. I've put in the time and in cases real money to get there. So what if I have a few mechs I dust off every few months, that's my right given the requirements to get our mech's to their current state's.

[Odanan]

Two suggestions:

1- Split the "Weapons Skill Trees" from the "Other-Stuff Skill Tress".

So, all mechs would get like 50 skill points for Other-Stuff Trees and a VARIABLE number of weapon skill points, according to the number of different hardpoints the mech has.

Example:

A Black Knight, with only energy hardpoints, would get 20 weapon skill points.
An Orion, with 3 types of weapon hardpoints, would get 60 weapon skill points.

2- Make the number of skill points for each variant based on the overall performance of that variant (meaning a Stormcrow should get less skill points than a Wolverine). If done right, this could even remove the need of base quirks for all mechs.

So, when you buy a new mech, it wouldn't have those confusing (for the new guys) base quirks, but simply X skill points and X weapon skill points.

[Odanan]

AnTi90d, on 09 February 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

The solution:

Don't have individual weapon skills. Consolidate weapon skills into categories that affect all three weapon types.

-Rate of fire: Reduce weapons cooldown for all weapons
-Range: Increase range for all weapons
-Heat efficiency: Reduce heat generation for all weapons
-Precision: Consolidate missile spread, LBX spread, laser duration, and projectile velocity into a single catch-all skill.

BOOM, then boats would be on the same footing as mechs that are forced to have a small number of three types of hardpoints.

-----

• The new system allows overperforming mechs to become even more powerful.

The Kodiak 3, the Marauder IIc and other mechs that are already clear overperformers manage to get an even larger leg-up on the competition within their weight bracket, with the new skill system.

The solution:

Overperforming mechs should have fewer nodes available to them.

Underperforming mechs should have more nodes available to them.

PGI has the stats. They know which mechs score, on average, more damage / kills than the other mechs within their weight bracket. The mechs that have better hitboxes / hardpoints should receive fewer nodes than ones that have terrible hitboxes and low / spread / diverse hardpoints.

This, this and this! ^

[PAQUERA]

Yes, u are right. I had hard times mastering mechs like the highlanderIIC or wolfhounds. but at practical efects yes they are mastered, yes they are in my colection, and yes, i dont play with them.

Maibe, like a try, i could put some time and cbills to requirkc some to see how can those mechs are better. The fact is that u always play with ur favourite mech and u have mechs that u dont play with. U still have ur right

[Flitzomat]

DGTLDaemon, on 09 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

So, was this a blatant lie by PGI? Because 136k XP is in no way "similar" to 56k XP...

True, but then give us the HXP on chassis and not on variant basis

[PAQUERA]

Odanan, on 09 February 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

This, this and this! ^

Yes, this is logical. A a timber or a warhammer are not the same that a dragon or a viper

Edited by PAQUERA, 09 February 2017 - 03:05 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

I'm not sure I like this. Personally I have enough cash and XP to be set. Furthermore, while not an elite pilot I'm decent enough to perform acceptable in any mech no matter what configuration. Every single mech I own has a k/d over 1.0 which is my personall benchmark for acceptable.

I'm thinking about new players. They will be punished. They lack the skill/expeience in combat, they lack the understanding of the mechanics and finally they lack the cash and XP:

They will probably often end up in frankenbuilds of questionable performance only to be melted or oneshotted by some tryhard in an optimized lolbuild. PGI should at least consider giving away the first respec on each mech for free on new accounts.

Now that I think about it, they should also give everyone free XP on every varaiant they have mastered, enough for the first build. A variant that was att full capacity before should be so afterwards. After that first freebie you're on your own.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 09 February 2017 - 03:23 AM.

[niccooo]

"You can't buy skills." - Russ at 1:58-2:12