814 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

Hastur Azargo, on 09 February 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

As for the challenge, well, remember that MWO is a game that can get pretty repetitive pretty soon, so tripling the grind on all mechs is gonna lead to burnout sooner, even if now you think it's a welcome challenge. Add to that the fact that you will be seeing a lot more minmaxed meta mechs in drops, and that's one less reason for you to ever try leveling a non-meta mech in such an environment.

Do I understand correctly that you are suggesting that we will essentially continue to deal with perceived metas? If we consider the most vulnerable population, which is the new player population, they are still suffering the same onslaught from players with more resources. If we look at this practically, even from a new player perspective, allowing them to mitigate some of that difference by letting them purchase a portion rather than having to dump large sums to gain those benefits. If 20 nodes can be purchased fro 2 million c-bills, that is still much cheaper while providing particular benefits they prefer at the time. Some gap mitigation seems a lot better than none. We will always see players trying to make the best decks they possibly can, allowing a player to choose what they want to specialize in will offer some depth in building a role, but I'm still to test out the actual effect yet and can't comment on execution.

[Dar1ng One]

Racistrxinegra2k, on 08 February 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

This is the best thing that could have happened to me. I really needed to cut back on the amount of time i spend on this game.

I scrolled right to the part where it will cost 9.1million cbills to master a mech don't really care to read anything else, don't really have a desire to continue the grind.

Mmmmmmmm.....yes

thats the idea to let you fully flesh out your fav mechs so you dont feel obliged to play designs you dont like. Cant any of you see this?

Its Mech-Cellent!

[Mjoellnir]

Really ?

You force the players to waste rare skillspoints in skills like AMS overload or Target Info Gathering to get down to the more useful skills ?

Skills like Radar Deprivation are absolutley essentiell for most players. Such valuable skills like Radar Depr. or Seismic Sensors should not be bound on mechs. Make them expensive to train but unlock them for account or at least a class (light, medium, heavy , assault).

To get full Radar Dep. for example i have to spend 17 skillpoints. Investing 12 of them in skills a never would have bought in old skills system until i am GXP millionaire and 5-7 mech slots !

I like the basic idea of the skill system. You have to specialize in some cases but hiding essentiell skills in crap skill trees is not that good.

Edited by Mjoellnir, 09 February 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[snipercam7]

Dar1ng One, on 09 February 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Mmmmmmmm.....yes

thats the idea to let you fully flesh out your fav mechs so you dont feel obliged to play designs you dont like. Cant any of you see this?

Its Mech-Cellent!

I'm a noob. In the last week I've went from UAC5s to Gauss to PPCs+Large Pulses to pure PPCs on my Dire Wolf.

Under the new system, that'd be idiotic. I'd be sitting on UAC5s forever, because I'd be paying half a Dire Wolf to respec each time.

Also, unless I'm reading it wrong, massive nerf to LRMs. It appears Radar Dep now overrides target retention since target retention gives a flat +time modifier whereas Radar Dep is % based?

Edited by snipercam7, 09 February 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[bootae]

Looks interesting, system sounds decent and look forward to trying it out. But... the c-bill pricing is utterly ridiculous.

I'll be fine. I've put enough time and real money in, and being an idiot for mechs, I'll have enough cash from module reimbursements to cover costs on the mechs I actually want to play. I'll just slightly resent it and buy less mechs in future if it's a c-bill choice between new mechs or skills for existing ones. Which since we don' need multiple variants may not be so bad. Not sure. Though I am now questioning if recent pre-orders were a mistake, as with 3 variants for a chassis not being required, if I keep all 3 they have an extra ball ache to grind c-bills alongside XP for and if selling two of them isn't even covering the cost of levelling one... seems a bit meh.

However....

Whilst fully equipping old-style modules on a mech would work out at more total cost, for many players (particularly new/casual ones), they would master mechs and not worry about modules too much (if at all). Preferring to spend c-bills on weapons/mechs, the more... tangible... things. So they can catch up, build a drop deck, take part in general. Unfortunately this just adds an extra cash grind for the sake of it. You need to be enticing new players in, not making it feel like a grind so they quit before they decide the game is worth spending real money on.

They won't have huge c-bill stashes when this arrives. Which will mean there's no way they can afford this for their existing mechs and they would need to spend all their game time just playing catch up to earn c-bills to get skills on the mechs they'd already mastered. That will be boring. They won't bother. Something shiny elsewhere catches the eye, and....they then don't buy a mech pack for real money.

Or something.

[Hastur Azargo]

SuperFunkTron, on 09 February 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

Do I understand correctly that you are suggesting that we will essentially continue to deal with perceived metas? If we consider the most vulnerable population, which is the new player population, they are still suffering the same onslaught from players with more resources. If we look at this practically, even from a new player perspective, allowing them to mitigate some of that difference by letting them purchase a portion rather than having to dump large sums to gain those benefits. If 20 nodes can be purchased fro 2 million c-bills, that is still much cheaper while providing particular benefits they prefer at the time. Some gap mitigation seems a lot better than none. We will always see players trying to make the best decks they possibly can, allowing a player to choose what they want to specialize in will offer some depth in building a role, but I'm still to test out the actual effect yet and can't comment on execution.

Except there is much less incentive to try anything other than a meta mech or play chassis for fun, which is why I expect to see many more meta mechs, just like in 2013 when jump-sniping highlanders were the meta. Who this system really benefits is players who play a LOT. Not new players (who are now discouraged to have multiple variants of the same chassis), not collectors that like to maintain and casually play a multitude of mechs, but players that hump meta and spend a lot of time in the game. We'll see how this plays out, but I'm having flashbacks to how this same mindset in game design made me quit WoW, because there was simply now way to fully experience the game without sinking humongous amounts of time into it.

[Bacon Wan Kenobi]

So do I understand correctly that there is no longer an advanced zoom?

[Simulacrum]

Well, back in 2012 I heard about a Mechwarrior/Battle Tech game Piranha Games is working on. As quickly as possible I bought the Legendary Founder package to give my support. I played the open BETA from the first day and I saw a promising good game rising. Sadly I had no time to join a group or even to play within a MMOG - till now. (long time I know)

2 weeks ago I started playing MWO (again), this time with some friends and it makes fun even if we get killed a loooot of times. (we play with IS mechs only what is not very helpful as a newbie as it feels like every second player only uses Clan mechs )
I unlocked just a few basic skills of some mechs and spend no GXP till today - its just to expensive for a 'new' player. But for a new player it is obvious that this skills could make the difference on the battleground as it frustrating as well because of its high costs. When I read this post about the PTS my thoughts are:

wouldn't it be be far more expensive for me now to close up in unlocking skills?

If so it would be really disappointing.

[Kael Posavatz]

There is one advanced zoom node, it is hiding out on a skill tree, but I don't recall which at the moment.

[TheCallandor]

Looking through the post I could not see where any one has address this the system will have on Omi-Mechs and their functionality. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is if for example you outfit a Timber-Wolf as a laser bot install the corresponding modules and using the PTS system you level up all the skills for that if you wish to change it a AC or SRM build with different modules you will then have to respec the whole mech? To me this seems to be total counter to what Omi-Mech stands for...

[Carminus]

Skill tree should look like what they did for Witcher 3. Why do they force using skill points in areas you do not want or need?

[Gernot von Kurzmann]

Tooooo complicated!!!

170 mechs too reconfig....

Made my day!

Ps: skill trees are for ine character games not for mechwarrior games! With more than 100 mechs...

Which **** WoW Gamer idea was that???


Made more weapons, maps and game modes - not that damn thing.

Edited by Gernot von Kurzmann, 09 February 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[WANTED]

I'm not concerned with the money and going nuts over 9mil cbills cause PGI can adjust that if overall community is angry. I've learned my lesson to not knee jerk react from posts in here before forming my own opinion after playtesting.

Edited by WANTED, 09 February 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

(short response, still digesting info + need to tinker on PTS)

9 million C-Bills per 'mech just to *BUY* all the skill Skill Points, even with XP?

If so, this will likely be the end of MWO for me. Even I don't have that much spare time...

[PAQUERA]

Jay Leon Hart, on 09 February 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

(short response, still digesting info + need to tinker on PTS)

9 million C-Bills per 'mech just to *BUY* all the skill Skill Points, even with XP?

If so, this will likely be the end of MWO for me. Even I don't have that much spare time...

Let se how we have the modules

1 radar deprivation -- 6kk cbills
1 seismic-- 6kkcbills
2 weapons modules --6kkcbils

total 18kk cbils to module ur mech

and u say that 9kk cbills is worse? i dont understand

u play without modules maibe?

Edited by PAQUERA, 09 February 2017 - 08:59 AM.

[Thoummim]

I stoped reading at 9Mcbills+ to master a mech. I have 88 mechs, it will cost me 800.8 millions to master them all. At an average of 150 000cbills per 15min (match timer + waiting timer + searching timer...) it will take me 1334+ hours (55days of consecutive gaming) to do it.



Are you guys insane ? This is a serious question.


I mean... Anyone who though "yeah this is a good idea" or "meh that'll be okay" need to be fired on the spot. Not even talking about the xp cost.

A good part of the fun come with changing your mechs loadout.

125 000cbills to change a node...

Great so now if I want to change my playstyle on the same mech I need to buy many times the same variant. And forget about ever playing a troll build ever again. Well lets be honest troll build dont need quirks but making full module stupid build sure make them funnier.

And I was wondering if I should buy mc again for decals, you made the choice for me.

I'm always broke since I buy mechs and make stupid build on a whim and I just dont want to ever again grind this game it annoys me to no end. I probably will have only enough money to master 5~7mechs with module refund. Needless to say I wont even bother to master if you keep it this way.

PAQUERA, on 09 February 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Let se how we have the modules

1 radar deprivation -- 6kk cbills
1 seismic-- 6kkcbills
2 weapons modules --6kkcbils

total 18kk cbils to module ur mech

and u say that 9kk cbills is worse? i dont understand

u play without modules maibe?

M= millions. its just weird to see kilo*kilo.

Module can be put on any mech. You pay them once for your entire pool. Unless you're lazy with too much cbills.

Edited by Thoummim, 09 February 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

PAQUERA, on 09 February 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Let se how we have the modules

1 radar deprivation -- 6kk cbills
1 seismic-- 6kkcbills
2 weapons modules --6kkcbils

total 18kk cbils to module ur mech

and u say that 9kk cbills is worse? i dont understand

u play without modules maibe?

I currently own 47 modules - let's go crazy and call it 50, and assume they all cost 6 million;
6,000,000 x 50 = 300,000,000

I own 233 'mechs, but let's say I own 230;
230 x 9,000,000 = 2,070,000,000

Now we divide!
2,070,000,000 / 300,000,000 = 6.9

Almost 7 times more C-Bills required under the new system and that's estimating low, it will be over 7 and likely close to 8 (for me)

Yeah, that's quite the increase for a poor sod like me...

[Daemon04]

In its current mastered states I will at least need the amount of nodes required to be able to elite the mechs.

COOL RUN, KINETIC BURST, TWIST AMOUNT, TWIST SPEED, HEAT CONTAINMENT, HARD BRAKE, ARM REFLEX, ANCHOR TURN.

QUICK IGNITION, FAST FIRE, SPEED TWEAK, PINPOINT (which is a blank placeholder for whatever reason - not necessary imo)

i am talking about BASIC AND ELITE SKILLS like in the current state.
I dont even care about that extra module slot. 91 nodes is simply insufficient to just unlock em.

I tried reconstructing the current skilling with the new "tree" and i can only unlock the necessary skills by having unlocking key nodes that i wont need for the mechs. it is kinda wasted nodes blocking the chocke points just like too scared mechs in F7 on new therra therma.

So i have an extra 12 wasted here for:
360 target retention
target decay
target info gathering
sensor range

AND 5 wasted for:
speed retention
hill climb


and ive never unlocked em in prior mechs before. exception is sensore range for scouting mechs.
91 node limit wont cut it if 17 are wasted in the process.

furthermore to add:
ive added some lbx and medlaser nodes to it as well. and i am at a total of 93 nodes with the wasted ones. sums up to 93 nodes - 139.500 xp and 9.3 mil. cbills. for one chassis. without the blanks it would only require 76 nodes and i would be able to quirk up some more weapons to the max.

so far my experience in the skills lab.


EDIT-

cost wise 9 mills for so many modules is amazing if we ignore the fact that we wont be able to swap important modules like radar depr. or seismic sensor and a couple more.

LBX: COOLDOWN, velocity, spread. --------------------- 3
LASER: duration, RANGE, heat gen ---------------------- 3

hill climb------------------------------------------------------ 6
speed retention------------------------------------------------ 6
improved gyros----------------------------------------------- 2

target info gathering------------------------------------------ 4
sensor range--------------------------------------------------- 2
target retention------------------------------------------------ 6
seismic sensor------------------------------------------------- 6
radar deprivation---------------------------------------------- 6

TOTAL================================== 44

otherwise that would cost a lot in CURRENT modules: 44 mil. !!!! and i wouldnt be able to fit all into one mech either.

EDIT 2-

after having slept over this Ill have to add that the 136k+ xp is a huge amount to grind these mechs. 56k is nothing compared to that and is still a lot of work. seems a little too much.

the node system might have to be altered to a linear system.in order to get some modules at all like radar deprivation. i have to waste 4 nodes on one side and 5 more on the other side to get to any percentage of radar depr.. for a 100% effect i have to waste 11 skill points. 11.
11 SP equals 24k xp that would fully basic my mech (14250 xp) and even get spead tweak on it (8500 xp).
im not buying it that the grind is staying the same. its not. not without a linear skill tree at least.

[ThatGuy539]

okay...I have almost 300 mechs, and all but two are mastered. Leveling everything up is a big part of the fun for me.
I also play with the builds a lot. And swap engines and modules all over the place. I have a few of everything.

This new system is really going to put a damper on the fun of this game. It sounds like it will be more expensive and time consuming to setup mechs, and it really discourages changing the builds. I don't want to be playing meta mechs, or against meta mechs all of the time. But with this system everyone will be going for that uber build, and only the few mechs that really perform will be the ones people play all of the time which will make playing anything lesser frustrating, and playing in general boring.

I don't even want to think about what this would be like for a new player.

If the change comes in, I may stop playing for a while until they sort out these issues.

[Zergling]

PAQUERA, on 09 February 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Let se how we have the modules

1 radar deprivation -- 6kk cbills
1 seismic-- 6kkcbills
2 weapons modules --6kkcbils

total 18kk cbils to module ur mech

and u say that 9kk cbills is worse? i dont understand

u play without modules maibe?

You may have missed this, but almost nobody has a full set of modules for all their mechs.

I have several hundred mechs, but I only have the following non-weapon modules:

Advanced Zoom x4
Radar Deprivation x2
Seismic x1

Gee, I'm sure going to get hundreds of millions of cbills refunded with all that!