67 replies to this topic

[aGentleWarrior]

Basically I find the new skill tree very interesting,
BUT the current system (before 2017) has a lot of mech skills which just cost mech XP.

To get my mechs to the same level i will suddenly need to spend tons of c-bills to unlock the skill nodes.
All the kinetic burst, hard brake, heat management, speed tweak I already have will be gone. I will have likely mech xp to unlock the skills in new techtree but will need additional c-bills !?!

example Pirates Bane:
After a short look at the movement, operations skilltrees, I will need approx 2-3 Mio C-bills which were not needed before to get mobility, heat management, and ecm, to the level it NOW has.
(It will gain some other goodies which it didn't had before though)

If you have 30 mechs... prepare for a bill of 60-90mio credits to level them back...


If we don't get additional c-bills as refund for xp we already spend on mech skills PGI bills us twice to get us our "deserved" achievements.

Edited by aGentleWarrior, 08 February 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[WolvesX]

I'm ok with that. Module switching was extremely unfun, so I bought them for each mech.

Now, when I get them refunded, I have to money for the skilltree. Seems extremely fair to me.

[mad kat]

9.1 million cbills to 'Master' a mech.... So what they've done is remove the 3 mech allowance but move that cost into unlocking skills at a flat rate not scaled to the mech class. In other words this is going to be extortionate for light mech pilots and not quite as extortionate for assault pilots.

I was worried when they were branding about 50k per node but its twice that. But wait you can cheat it with MC. How convenient there's an MC sale on, i was tempted until i realised this would no way cover it unless i wanted to be a 'whale'.

,,,,,,PGI cash grabs strike again. I hope this changes otherwise this will likely be an uninstall and demanding for a refund from me as this isn't just a change or tweak this is a blatant removal of what i've already paid for.

Edited by mad kat, 09 February 2017 - 12:51 AM.

[aGentleWarrior]

WolvesX, on 09 February 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

I'm ok with that. Module switching was extremely unfun, so I bought them for each mech.

Now, when I get them refunded, I have to money for the skilltree. Seems extremely fair to me.

Well me not, i have bought 5-6 modules in my 4000 battles so far, the c-bills were then just spend on other mechs.

[MrKvola]

I believe I should be owning around 50 modules in total (radar derps, info gathering, weapon modules, etc.). Perhaps a bit more. I generally have them distributed on 'mechs I use for CW and then I have a set of modules (radar derp, favorite weapons) which I use when levelling 'mechs. Yes, I do change modules each time I switch a 'mech. I currently have 250+ 'mechs.

Now counting that I'll need 9m c-bills and 136k XP to fully upgrade a single 'mech (and of course will need to own and upgrade multiple copies if I'll want to switch loadouts, because re-speccing in the current version just does not make sense), just getting my favorite ones kitted out will be a pain and a huge grind. Up until now you needed 35 750XP to fully level a 'mech and say 12-18m c-bills if you wanted to get modules for it. of course these modules would be re-usable and you'd need some GXP to unlock them.

I believe the new system economy is way out of whack.

[Eteokles81]

Not only cbills. A not so active or fairly new player who didn't yet have any or only a few modules will be set back hardcore in comparison.

Just compare what a new player got in just a few hours of Gameplay by looking at the first tier of the old skill tree! To only and just get what he had, only the first tier, would be impossible now!

Even worse if you maybe made some slight errors in selling mechs you didn't need any more (because for example as a noob, you sold them after completing tier 1 in each of them, so you could go speed tweak on one variant you wanted). Trying to get a mech just to the level it was in the old system is straight impossible for players who didn't play until owning dozens of modules!

In short, take the first tier skills to the top of the new skill tree and make them cheaper, so new players have a better chance to catch up!

Example: Cool Run, 7.5%. Done after first match in the old system! Now I need 16500XP (!!) and 1.1Mio cBills, only to get 8%!

Edited by Eteokles81, 09 February 2017 - 10:46 AM.

[Kelvera]

This....this is garbage.

[generalazure]

Quick glance at the numbers tells me I have nowhere near the cash required to keep my garage running at its current level (completed old skill tree, almost no modules). And since we can probably all agree that playing unskilled mechs is not exactly fun...

On a side note, this will be a rather mean blow to any new players (assuming those still exist), seeing how they will have to play target dummy far longer until they have their first mech in a state where it no longer sucks.

[MechWarior9169571]

I agree. Total garbage indeed! This is no way to treat your loyal players. I for one will be demanding a refund and doing an uninstall of MWO if this Feb. 21st patch goes through! Basically everything you've worked so hard on will be gone and you have to spend a large amount of cash to get your Mechs back to their skill level and modules. This means that the money you've spent so far is basically spinning around the toilet bowl on it's way to oblivion.
It's a blatant cash grab that will end up backfiring as a large percentage of the community will leave MWO in protest.

Thanks for the memories PGI, now get bent!

Edited by romwyzard, 09 February 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[Eteokles81]

Another one, where do I convert historic XP of mechs I don't currently own?

[Flashover23]

I don't need Cbills, I need more than 91 SP.

I am wondering how to get CLOSE to what I have for a SDR-5D build, because 91 SP won't get me the current Skill Unlocks I have, plus Radar Dep, Seismic, and MPL modules.

My mech is going to have an extra Jump Jet hole in its rear CT after getting screwed this hard.

[SuperFunkTron]

The system itself looks good, the real issue is just the cost. The high costs excludes new players and those trying to build their stables. Making it based on high xp amounts also means these nodes will be exclusive to those who stick to a single mech. That would be fair if we all started out at the same level, but since the community is so spread out in terms of resources, and also considering that we really want to increase the retention rate of new players, we need to make it easier for them to invest in these systems. The cost should be 10-30% at most of the proposed 9.1 million. It makes sense that it would cost to physically upgrade systems or armor on a mech, but I don't want to leave new players in the dust jsut for those farther along can move even farther ahead.

[aGentleWarrior]

Moreover another thing i noticed:

To get the cooler skill nodes you often have to purchase some skill nodes which could be neglected.

This and the possibility to buy just all skilll nodes when enough resources are available will result in "totaly maxed mechs" instead of diverse specialicst builds. (The idea of specialized build to create a diversity of mechs you encounter and play is something i fully support)

Maybe limit the possible amount of nodes which can be bought per chassis to 2/3 of avilable nodes?
I mean when I choose to be a Thief i do not expect to get the Tank traits...

[Joe Decker]

Over 300 Mechs in Hangar and have to pay 9 Millions each to level them up - that is only 2821000000 CBills to level them...

Why did I collect Mechs again ?

If it stays like that People will be unwilling in the Future to switch Mechs for Teamtactics and People will stop buying Mechpacks because

1. You don't need 3 Mechs per Chassis anymore to master them
2. It just doesn't make sense anymore to level a lot of Mechs

Me personally I will surely stop buying Mechpacks in the Future as long as the Costs for skilling them are that high.

Hope they reduce the cost in CBills for skilling Mechs. 10-20 % of what they want atm would be appropriate.

Edited by Joe Decker, 09 February 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Januph]

I'm 50/50 on this.

I only play quick play matches until I get a new PC.
And I usually only run mechs that need tiers unlocked, rarely do I play my mastered mechs unless events for specific goals are required which I'll usually use my KTO-GB.
I don't give in to meta builds, I like to experiment mostly.

The good - I'm pleased to have to play some meaningful matches to re-master my preferred variants and spec them out for the desired result of skills/quirk boosts.

The bad - I have bought additional mechbays and variants just to give me a goal of leveling tiers, and these mechs will now be a HUGE GRIND to get back to where they currently are and are also not as enjoyable to play.

I'm not going to jump on the issues until I have given it a fair chance.
Even though I'm getting close to having all the weapons tiers completed.

Two side notes.
Can you fix the reverse facing at the start of matches to prevent our legs from being damaged by bad or inconsiderate piloting.
And also the statement I read that you will be advancing the mechtech to 3060. I thought it was a coolest idea to bring in new tech in linear real years and fictional years. This obviously looks like a business decision to re-invigorate the player pool and spending which I understand will greatly affect the games longevity.

Edited by Januph, 09 February 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Padre Balistique]

Joe Decker, on 09 February 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Over 300 Mechs in Hangar and have to pay 9 Millions each to level them up - that is only 2821000000 CBills to level them...

Why did I collect Mechs again ?

If it stays like that People will be unwilling in the Future to switch Mechs for Teamtactics and People will stop buying Mechpacks because

1. You don't need 3 Mechs per Chassis anymore to master them
2. It just doesn't make sense anymore to level a lot of Mechs

Me personally I will surely stop buying Mechpacks in the Future as long as the Costs for skilling them are that high.

Hope they reduce the cost in CBills for skilling Mechs. 10-20 % of what they want atm would be appropriate.

They need to get rid of the cbill cost for skilling mechs, period, and make respec free, if they want to salvage this at all.

I dont know about anyone else, but I enjoy trying different builds on my mechs, searching for something that works for me, or just pugqueue dropping with friends in silly builds to see what we can do.

skill XP and respec costs will kill this, and in turn, kill the game...It especially screws over new players who are still trying to figure out how to play and are trying to find loadouts.


and honestly, the populations already in dire straits, or PGI wouldn't have to tweak the matchmaker to drop t5 bambi's against t1/t2 tryhards in the queues, so no reason to try and kick out more new people with awful ideas.

[Joe Decker]

Right. For a new Player this is also an additional Problem - I remember that I did not earn much Money within the first 100 Matches I did in MWO, most of the Matches I lost and often I did not deal much damage so the Money I earned was pretty low.

Now imagine a new Player has bought a Mechpack with 4 Mechs in it and on top of buying the Mechpack he needs to invest 36.4 Million CBills to master these Mechs. Seems an insane Number for a new Player. Absolutely unrealistic and it will build another Paywall for Players that want to get into the Game.

I mean you also did not buy Modules for EVERY Mech you owned. You switched them. That System with Modules was fair compared to the Costs for the Skill Trees where you have to buy Skills for EVERY Mech.

Not a very clever Move to bring in these huge CBill Costs into the Skill Tree.

Beside that I think the Skill Tree is nice. They just ruin it with the Cost Factor.

Not sure if removing all Costs would be good but reducing it to 10% of its actual Costs for skilling/reskilling would be fair. That would be about 1 Million for each Mech. I mean the XP/GXP Cost indicates that you spent Time to master your Mech. Money should not play such a big Role in it.

Edited by Joe Decker, 09 February 2017 - 02:30 PM.

[Padre Balistique]

Joe Decker, on 09 February 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

Right. For a new Player this is also an additional Problem - I remember that I did not earn much Money within the first 100 Matches I did in MWO, most of the Matches I lost and often I did not deal much damage so the Money I earned was pretty low.

Now imagine a new Player has bought a Mechpack with 4 Mechs in it and on top of buying the Mechpack he needs to invest 36.4 Million CBills to master these Mechs. Seems an insane Number for a new Player. Absolutely unrealistic and it will build another Paywall for Players that want to get into the Game.

Not a very clever Move to bring in these huge CBill Costs into the Skill Tree.

Beside that I think the Skill Tree is nice. They just ruin it with the Cost Factor.

Not sure if removing all Costs would be good but reducing it to 10% of its actual Costs for skilling/reskilling would be fair. That would be about 1 Million for each Mech. I mean the XP/GXP Cost indicates that you spent Time to master your Mech. Money should not play such a big Role in it.

Theres no reason for it to have a cbill cost. the game has no economy, no active trading or buying or selling of in game items, so theres absolutely no need for a spurious cbill sink

the only conceivable reason to include a cbill cost is to make cbills harder to have, and thus push people towards buying MC/Mechpacks via a massively inflated grind.

[Corduroy Rab]

Padre Balistique, on 09 February 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Theres no reason for it to have a cbill cost. the game has no economy, no active trading or buying or selling of in game items, so theres absolutely no need for a spurious cbill sink

the only conceivable reason to include a cbill cost is to make cbills harder to have, and thus push people towards buying MC/Mechpacks via a massively inflated grind.

Yeah I have tried to be charitable on PGIs motives, but the complete mismatch of intentions with this proposed implementation its hard not to be completely cynical.

[SuperFunkTron]

Padre Balistique, on 09 February 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Theres no reason for it to have a cbill cost. the game has no economy, no active trading or buying or selling of in game items, so theres absolutely no need for a spurious cbill sink

the only conceivable reason to include a cbill cost is to make cbills harder to have, and thus push people towards buying MC/Mechpacks via a massively inflated grind.

Seeing as how these "Skills" are actually mostly "physical upgrades", some c-bill cost makes sense if we want to imagine that upgrades have to be made. I am up for a nominal cost, something in the 1-2 million range so that it is a rather small investment as opposed to scaring new players off behind an impossible grind when they are still just trying to find mechs that they like.

Maybe a compromise could be made where the first x nodes are purely XP costs and later nodes start costing c-bills, albeit a significantly smaller than what they have in the PTS right now.